Reasons for a class system for team state

[Y2CJ41]

WOW this is still going on? Y2 you never answered my question from a long time ago or at least I dont think you did.  ???

What question is that?

[Jimtown 138]

Ahh now you have stepped into a bad realm Y2,

 

D3's really can not compete with D1's for 3 reasons

 

1) Athletic Scholarships are not legal ;-)

2) Practice and training time for D3's is limited much more than D1

3) Recruiting, most d3 colleges can not even compete with NAIA schools when it comes to recruiting athletes. Why? Because NAIA schools can offer scholarships, NCAA d3 is not "allowed" to.

 

(BTW, number 3 was straight from the horses mouth of a D3 VB coach)

 

I've heard rumors that D3 recruiting restrictions might get changed to be more like the NAIA rules.

[Y2CJ41]

Ahh now you have stepped into a bad realm Y2,

 

D3's really can not compete with D1's for 3 reasons

 

1) Athletic Scholarships are not legal ;-)

2) Practice and training time for D3's is limited much more than D1

3) Recruiting, most d3 colleges can not even compete with NAIA schools when it comes to recruiting athletes. Why? Because NAIA schools can offer scholarships, NCAA d3 is not "allowed" to.

 

(BTW, number 3 was straight from the horses mouth of a D3 VB coach)

Why don't they take just work harder and not whine and cry about the disadvantages?  They should suck it up and play the big dawgs because in the end, the golf course is the same, the wrestling mat is the same, the tennis court is the same.  D1's don't put three tennis players on the court, just one(or two).  So what if they don't offer scholarships, they can recruit kids because of the stellar education they would get or the great campus atmosphere.  

 

Also, why would you believe a D3 volleyball coach on her/his experiences at a D3 school, yet won't listen to a small school wrestling coach?

[KarlHungus]

Ahh now you have stepped into a bad realm Y2,

 

D3's really can not compete with D1's for 3 reasons

 

1) Athletic Scholarships are not legal ;-)

2) Practice and training time for D3's is limited much more than D1

3) Recruiting, most d3 colleges can not even compete with NAIA schools when it comes to recruiting athletes. Why? Because NAIA schools can offer scholarships, NCAA d3 is not "allowed" to.

 

(BTW, number 3 was straight from the horses mouth of a D3 VB coach)

 

So it sounds like Div. 1 schools have access to a larger pool of athletes due to the lack of restrictions?  Is this a correct assumption?

[Jimtown 138]

So it sounds like Div. 1 schools have access to a larger pool of athletes due to the lack of restrictions?  Is this a correct assumption?

 

I would say it would be more like "deeper pockets"...

[outsidersview]

What question is that?

you were complaining a while back on this thread about how its a disadvantage for kids like McCray and some other kids about how they have to play multi-sports and they cannot focus on one sport and I brung up how MD has had tons of State champions in more than one sport. All of the wrestlers play football.. But this thread has moved on from that you guys are talking about recruiting so if you dont wish to put forth your opinion for that I understand.

[KarlHungus]

whats the question?

[Galagore]

 

 

I was being silly with my posts btw, but on a somewhat serious not, anderson is a D3 college, so not only are they smaller than many D1 colleges, they also are not allowed to offer "athletic scholarships." However, any other scholarship which might only be available to give to athletes but not called an "athletic scholarship" is allowed. ;-)

 

Break the addiction

[pin2win1]

I've heard rumors that D3 recruiting restrictions might get changed to be more like the NAIA rules.

 

good, i am glad they would finally allow scholarships to athletes out in the open rather than skirt around the rules, talk about lack of integrity.

 

Why don't they take just work harder and not whine and cry about the disadvantages?  They should suck it up and play the big dawgs because in the end, the golf course is the same, the wrestling mat is the same, the tennis court is the same.  D1's don't put three tennis players on the court, just one(or two).  So what if they don't offer scholarships, they can recruit kids because of the stellar education they would get or the great campus atmosphere.  

Also, why would you believe a D3 volleyball coach on her/his experiences at a D3 school, yet won't listen to a small school wrestling coach?

 

Because we are comparing apples to oranges when we compare college classes vs high schools classes. Also d3 colleges don't cry about their disadvantages because they choose to put the restrictions on themselves by choosing which level they are in in colleges.

 

Also, D1 schools are going to get the best athletes because they can actually pay them in scholarship money to come the their school, D3's can not, therefore all the best athletes end up at D1's for the most part. Now, I have been out of HS for awhile, but last I knew recruiting was ILLEGAL in HS. HS coaches are not allowed to go out and gather the best athletes and bring them into their programs, colleges are.

 

Like i began the respos, I will end it, this comparision is apples to oranges, lets keep them at apples to apples.

[KarlHungus]

I would say it would be more like "deeper pockets"...

 

Which gives them access to more athletes?  Is that assumption correct?

[KarlHungus]

 

Also d3 colleges don't cry about their disadvantages because they choose to put the restrictions on themselves by choosing which level they are in in colleges.

 

Of course they're not crying.  Because the compete in a classed system.

 

Also, D1 schools are going to get the best athletes because they can actually pay them in scholarship money to come the their school, D3's can not, therefore all the best athletes end up at D1's for the most part. Now, I have been out of HS for awhile, but last I knew recruiting was ILLEGAL in HS. HS coaches are not allowed to go out and gather the best athletes and bring them into their programs, colleges are.

 

Like i began the respos, I will end it, this comparision is apples to oranges, lets keep them at apples to apples.

 

So those that offer scholorships have access to more athletes?  Is that a correct assumption?

[Jimtown 138]

Which gives them access to more athletes?  Is that assumption correct?

 

I would say so...

[outsidersview]

whats the question?

oh yes I apologize. I guess it really wasnt a question more of me arguing with y2. But he is usually good about responding and we were going at it for a while then he did not reply.

[Jimtown 138]

Of course they're not crying.  Because the compete in a classed system.

 

So those that offer scholorships have access to more athletes?  Is that a correct assumption?

 

There's a lot of "open" tourneys, so it's not all classed.

[pin2win1]

Which gives them access to more athletes?  Is that assumption correct?

 

Which gives them access to RECRUIT more and better athletes. Completely different from a High School.

 

 

[pin2win1]

 

There's a lot of "open" tourneys, so it's not all classed.

 

Well i am not sure about how wrestling works at the d3 level, AU dropped their team years ago, before I was alive i think. They did once play Ball State as an exibition game I believe, that was pretty ugly if i remember correct hahahaha

[KarlHungus]

Which gives them access to RECRUIT more and better athletes. Completely different from a High School.

 

 

 

So someone recruiting the hallways for wrestlers at Ben Davis does not have an advantage over someone recruiting the hallways at Turkey Run?

 

Iowa can recruit nearly any wrestler in the country...Manchester's pool of wrestlers is much smaller. 

 

 

[KarlHungus]

 

 

There's a lot of "open" tourneys, so it's not all classed.

 

Just as there is the Al Smith tourney where Jimtown can test themselves against the big boys.

[pin2win1]

Ok here is the difference karl

 

Iowa can recruit from the same pool that Manchester can recruit from and steal potential Manchester wrestlers.

 

Ben Davis can not recruit from the same pool that Garrett can recruit from. Or any other school for that manner.

 

 

However, if you go back to some of my earlier posts, I am not against team state being classed. Go ahead class it, if more wrestlers will join Garrett, or John Glenn or any other small school because now they have a legitimate shot at a sectional,regional, or even state championship, go ahead and do it. I understand that as a whole, small schools have a harder time putting together an entire team as opposed to larger schools.

 

However, I do not buy into the idea of classing individuals. Each and every individial has the ability to acheive what their potential will allow them to achieve regardless of their school's size.

[Y2CJ41]

 

Because we are comparing apples to oranges when we compare college classes vs high schools classes. Also d3 colleges don't cry about their disadvantages because they choose to put the restrictions on themselves by choosing which level they are in in colleges.

 

Also, D1 schools are going to get the best athletes because they can actually pay them in scholarship money to come the their school, D3's can not, therefore all the best athletes end up at D1's for the most part. Now, I have been out of HS for awhile, but last I knew recruiting was ILLEGAL in HS. HS coaches are not allowed to go out and gather the best athletes and bring them into their programs, colleges are.

 

Like i began the respos, I will end it, this comparision is apples to oranges, lets keep them at apples to apples.

Trine picked up an Illinois state champ that chose Trine over Northwestern and a couple other Big 10 schools.  Don't tell me that D3's can't out recruit D1's, it can happen with some hard work an dedication.  

 

Classes in college and high school have many similarities.  

[pin2win1]

Trine picked up an Illinois state champ that chose Trine over Northwestern and a couple other Big 10 schools.  Don't tell me that D3's can't out recruit D1's, it can happen with some hard work an dedication. 

 

Classes in college and high school have many similarities.

 

refer to the post above.

[duck_and_run]

Y2 your saying that D3 schools can compete with D1 schools on an individual basis, just like small schools can compete with larger schools on an individual basis with hard work and dedication.  Thank you.  The arguement is over game set and match classless individual state tournement.

[Y2CJ41]

If Manchester and Iowa recruit from the same pool, why aren't they on a level playing field?  Why does Iowa always get the big fish and Manchester the smaller ones?  They are both in the same pool, they should have an equal chance at getting the fish!

[theckman]

Trine picked up an Illinois state champ that chose Trine over Northwestern and a couple other Big 10 schools.  Don't tell me that D3's can't out recruit D1's, it can happen with some hard work an dedication.  

 

Classes in college and high school have many similarities.  

 

So now size doesn't matter.  It's because of hard work and dedication.  I must be misreading that, cause it sure sounds like you just shot a big hole in your argument.

 

I could also see something like that happening because the wrestler doesn't want wrestling to interfere with is schooling.  D1 wrestling takes up a lot more time than D3, I'm sure.

[duck_and_run]

Yeah if Metalica and Spike and the Bulldogs are both playing the same city then spike should get just as many fans to by that reasoning.  Why would kids go to a school to have a chance at a lesser title.  Come on Y2 are you saying that a D1 and D3 title are the same.  I am sure there are a ton of D3 guys that call themselves NCAA champions not D1 or D2 champions.  My friends from Wittenburg don't even mention class untill I ask them.