HeartBreaker Posted February 21, 2010 Share Posted February 21, 2010 I've never seen so many matches decided by stalling calls, How influenced are the refs by this crowd and coaches? 8) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boot Posted February 21, 2010 Share Posted February 21, 2010 I was glad they were finally starting to call stalling and fleeing the mat more. They just need to do that all season and start calling offensive fleeing more consistently. A good ref tunes out the crowd and coach, but there are some that are very very very influenced by coaches especially. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
diamondpocket Posted February 21, 2010 Share Posted February 21, 2010 i agree.. .. although the refs did call stalling and fleeing the mat a little bit more this year.. there were a lot of stalls that went uncalled.. i feel a ref knows when a kid is simply trying to kill time.. and should immediately call it.. i understand there is a bit of strategy playing into it.. but thats when the refs need to enforce the "rules" immediately to keep the match going! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
munges Posted February 21, 2010 Share Posted February 21, 2010 I agree we need to enforce stalling, but call it consistant all year. If you don't call it during the year the kid doesn't know what to expect. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HeartBreaker Posted February 21, 2010 Author Share Posted February 21, 2010 Its like they forget these rules all through the year, when state comes around... well now its a different story, they hold their fists high in the air after a kid has a front headlock for 10 seconds. After the crowd yells STAlllINNG 5 seconds later the fist is in the air. In my chair on the floor i heard many coaches chanting for stalling calls and most of them got it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WrestlingDad78 Posted February 21, 2010 Share Posted February 21, 2010 Throughout the tournament and regular season I saw several wrestlers stalling their way to victory in one match,then wrestle the same way with another official and lose for stalling. I lost count of the number of times coaches influenced the official to get the call. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
soup45 Posted February 21, 2010 Share Posted February 21, 2010 Here is my opinion and mine only. I feel that the best thing that our sport could do, would be to bring back a few of the old style Freestyle rules. This Folkstyle high school rules needs an up lift or lets get on board with the college level rules and make these kids wrestle. I to felt to much time was spent dancing around the mat or throwing the boots in and not being able to turn an indinidual. The 112# finals was one of the most boring matches of the tourney, it wasn't until Ayresman made a move did someone win in over time from a 0-0 tie BORING, LETS WRESTLE. Start rewarding the individual that takes the risk of shooting quit runiing riding the line and winning by one point because you put in the boots and laid ontop of your opponent. I could go on for ever but if you wanted to see a fun match let the kids get more physical quit letting someone put the boots in and fake turning someone for 2 min. lets wrestle in the middle Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tkdwn2 Posted February 21, 2010 Share Posted February 21, 2010 I agree if you are not trying to get the fall with the legs in call stalling. Too many matches where all the kid does is put legs in and keeps them on the mat looking to get to the next period. Lets see some scoring!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
diamondpocket Posted February 21, 2010 Share Posted February 21, 2010 i totally agree again!!.. a huge example is the semis with beck and cambell .. beck threw a leg in .. and simply laid on top .. every 20 seconds or so would try a power half.. never got off the hips once.. and never tried anything different .. i thought that was terrible! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
golden_dome1 Posted February 21, 2010 Share Posted February 21, 2010 Of all the years that I've attended the state finals, this was probably the worst. There were countless matches that had little or no action, not just the finals matches. There were some great matches but those were few and far between. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WaltHarris Posted February 21, 2010 Share Posted February 21, 2010 Totally agree with many of your comments. I we need to update the Folk rules to something closer to the FS rules. We really have to punish coaches and wrestlers who use stalling as a strategy. Leg riding paralell is stalling; that is why you see so many stalemates call quickly on collegiate leg riding. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BeastMode#31 Posted February 21, 2010 Share Posted February 21, 2010 While we would all like to see a " fun" 17-13 match score in every weight it is unrealistic and unfair to expect it. The finals are usually between 2 evenly matched wrestlers and often result in close (and sometimes low) scores. You have to keep in mind that these individuals have trained the better parts of their lives to reach this match and are cautious not to make a mistake that will cost them a title. Soup- I don't know if you ever wrestled under the lights but if you did I would bet you were more concerned with winning the match than you were about putting on a "fun" match for the spectators. I never won a title but I would have gladly taken one in "boring" fashion. However, I do understand your desire to want an "instant classic" in every other weight but, like I said it is unrealistic. I enjoyed the 112 pound final. I thought it was a great match between two great wrestlers and did not think it deserved any more stalling calls (than were already given). Beck is a strong young man who had a strategy to win a state title and I respect the kids talent and strategy alike. Ayersman is a tough kid who had his own strategy. I don't think we should knock the kids just because there were not a lot of points scored...just let em wrestle their own styles (even if they are conservative) because they earned the right to compete for a state title under the lights. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boot Posted February 21, 2010 Share Posted February 21, 2010 A low scoring match isn't boring, they're well matched. When you see the Olympic matches they're typically so evenly matched they just try to move each other in to a bad position. As long as they're still moving and making an effort it isn't stalling. Now throwing legs in and choking a guy, that's stalling and illegal, so double whammy that didn't get called. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
golden_dome1 Posted February 21, 2010 Share Posted February 21, 2010 A low scoring match isn't boring, they're well matched. When you see the Olympic matches they're typically so evenly matched they just try to move each other in to a bad position. As long as they're still moving and making an effort it isn't stalling. Now throwing legs in and choking a guy, that's stalling and illegal, so double whammy that didn't get called. I have no problem with a low scoring match, but I want to see someone attempt to score. I saw few scoring attempts and when someone got a lead they just sat on it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RAGUOC79 Posted February 21, 2010 Share Posted February 21, 2010 More sloppy bad wrestling than good wrestling this weekend as compared to previous years. Stalling was the theme this year more so than I can remember. I hope we have another Howe in the making to add more excitement. Besides that I want to congratulate all the Champs. Porras wrestled his rear off to prove to evry1 that he is a top wrestler. ALso congrats to him for his award, very well deserved. There was a lot of wrestlers who showed bad sportsmanship, hopefully with time they can mature and become great men, since wrestling teaches us many valuable things we learn & keep through the rest of our lives. Cody Philips is a wonderful wrestler. Fun to watchin him,,,,,beat numerous tough kids. (petrov, brooks, etc.) Knura is a gr8 wrestler. The locked hands thing, wow. I can't wait to see him next year. The refs had MANY bad calls and some very HARD -TO -SEE good calls. Heck If I can see the mistake from way up in the third deck, there's a good chance it was a missed call. I'm not always correct. I thought a lot of kids stalled there way to it, hell the heavyweights took more shots in the final (over 8 between Janney and Travis) that I counted. We ALL would like to see some more offense, not necessarily just taking shots just to make the fans happy, but to push or move the match in a more crisp pace. No comment on Willis-Vlahos ordeal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AJ Posted February 21, 2010 Share Posted February 21, 2010 I dont see the freestyle rules actually pushing action. Wrestlers stall and want to score last. Not score often, just last. This causes for very little risk taking while wrestlers are on their feet. The fact the officials were calling it and calling it often is what needs to continue to happen if we want action increased. The refs did a great job of calling stalling this year, and that is why I think we saw more calls than in years past. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RAGUOC79 Posted February 21, 2010 Share Posted February 21, 2010 Very bland finals overall, not much excitement, 189 was a good one as was the HWY, anyone agree???? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
busstogate Posted February 21, 2010 Share Posted February 21, 2010 Maybe you did not see the big time moves sometimes seen in the finals, but we had four OT matches, a one point match in regulation, and two more two-point matches in regulation. There were five regulation matches in which the favored finals opponent was dominant and in control the whole time. This leaves out the 171 lbs. match, in which a state champ was dethroned, and also the 152 lbs. match, which to me, showed more of a contrast in styles than domination. Still, 152was also an exciting match to watch because of who was in it. I do not know what finals you were watching, but these matches were great to behold for the most part. Very bland finals overall, not much excitement, 189 was a good one as was the HWY, anyone agree???? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
golden_dome1 Posted February 21, 2010 Share Posted February 21, 2010 Maybe you did not see the big time moves sometimes seen in the finals, but we had four OT matches, a one point match in regulation, and two more two-point matches in regulation. There were five regulation matches in which the favored finals opponent was dominant and in control the whole time. This leaves out the 171 lbs. match, in which a state champ was dethroned, and also the 152 lbs. match, which to me, showed more of a contrast in styles than domination. Still, 152was also an exciting match to watch because of who was in it. I do not know what finals you were watching, but these matches were great to behold for the most part. Yes, there were lots of close matches but that happens when no one does anything. One match in particular, a wrestler was lying flat on bottom with the top man just laying on top of him...that's not exciting. Also what was up with Duckworth at the end? Act like you want to win at least. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
STARSMAN Posted February 21, 2010 Share Posted February 21, 2010 What i feel is the bigger issue in stalling is the lack of consistincy as it was described earlier, one match (or hell one period) it is reffed one way and the next it is reffed the other. Stalling can be called in the first and second, not just in the 3rd when it has an impact on the match. I feel that the lack of consistincy is not fair to the wrestlers. For the guy that had pushed the action for 5 mins and continuously put themselves in danger while the other guy just blocks and backs up or wrestles the line. It is not fair when the kid decides with 30 seconds left to do something against the guy that has been pushing the action all match and then that wrestler gets a stalling call because it is in the 3rd period and the match is on the line. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RAGUOC79 Posted February 21, 2010 Share Posted February 21, 2010 Yes, there were lots of close matches but that happens when no one does anything. One match in particular, a wrestler was lying flat on bottom with the top man just laying on top of him...that's not exciting. Also what was up with Duckworth at the end? Act like you want to win at least. At least 1 person agrees with me...... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
theckman Posted February 21, 2010 Share Posted February 21, 2010 I remember a time eons ago (back in the late 70's or early 80's) where a rule said if the score at the end of the 1st period was 0-0, you HAD to warn one of thewrestlers for stalling. Don't think that caused a bit of controversy, do you? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WaltHarris Posted February 21, 2010 Share Posted February 21, 2010 What i feel is the bigger issue in stalling is the lack of consistincy as it was described earlier, one match (or hell one period) it is reffed one way and the next it is reffed the other. Stalling can be called in the first and second, not just in the 3rd when it has an impact on the match. I feel that the lack of consistincy is not fair to the wrestlers. For the guy that had pushed the action for 5 mins and continuously put themselves in danger while the other guy just blocks and backs up or wrestles the line. It is not fair when the kid decides with 30 seconds left to do something against the guy that has been pushing the action all match and then that wrestler gets a stalling call because it is in the 3rd period and the match is on the line. AMEN!!!!!!!!!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OTMF74 Posted February 22, 2010 Share Posted February 22, 2010 I felt the stall calls were very inconsistent. Not only in the finals but in the whole tournament. In my opinion not only were the stall calls inconsistent but the wrestling on the edge. You had some refs that as soon as a toe touched out of bounds, the whistle would blow, then you had other refs that would allow the wrestler to drag his very last pink toe! I did think that the fleeing the mat calls were on point! Reffing is a tough job, I will admit that, but if your at the STATE FINALS, and you have TWO refs, theirs no reason why you should be missing anything...Just my opinion though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joker Posted February 22, 2010 Share Posted February 22, 2010 I felt the stall calls were very inconsistent. Not only in the finals but in the whole tournament. In my opinion not only were the stall calls inconsistent but the wrestling on the edge. You had some refs that as soon as a toe touched out of bounds, the whistle would blow, then you had other refs that would allow the wrestler to drag his very last pink toe! I did think that the fleeing the mat calls were on point! Reffing is a tough job, I will admit that, but if your at the STATE FINALS, and you have TWO refs, theirs no reason why you should be missing anything...Just my opinion though. I agree with the inconsistant call with the one toe out of bounds. Maybe it should be more defined when to blow the whistle. I talked to one ref who states that he blows the whistle as soon as one wrestler steps out of bounds to avoid any contreversy. In the 285 pound match had the ref blown the whistle as soon as the Yorktown wrestler stepped out of bounds it would have been before the fleeing call. I think he definetly could have and did call the fleeing but had he blown the whistle when they both stepped out of bounds there would have been no call. As far as the stalling calls the one that I don't like is when they give the first warning with less than 10 seconds in a match knowing that they will not call another one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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