hammer Posted February 5, 2010 Share Posted February 5, 2010 Just for discussion: What are your thoughts on combining the Sectional and Regional together? If you feel that going to the super Sectional was a good idea, would you be in favor of making this change for the same reason? The big positives would include the best chance of getting the best 16 kids to Semi-state. They would also include having wrestle-backs at the level before Semi-state. The biggest drawbacks I can think of would be logistical things. You would need bigger venues for this Super Regional. You would have to wrestle them somewhere that you could put 4 mats on the floor, and also have enough spectator and team seating. and locker room space. You would also have to wrestle the first round on Friday night. Can you think of other positives or negatives to consider? Would you be willing to go to this if doing so would give us wrestle-backs as Semi-State? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chambers Posted February 5, 2010 Share Posted February 5, 2010 How does the current system fail to get the best 16 guys to semistate? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MattM Posted February 5, 2010 Share Posted February 5, 2010 For a long time I wanted the tournament series to stay the same by taking 4 at each level. However at this point by taking 4 from regionals to semi-state I feel we have lost a little something in the process. To me it should be more than just winning one match at regionals to advance. In the same respect it seems like the accomplishment of advanging to the semi-state has became slightly less than in the past since its just one match away now. At least its good for publicity in the community though. I could see the board in the future redistricting everything once to do one of two things. Going to small sectionals once again to make regionals a bigger event again. Or as you said combining more teams into a super sectiona, dropping regionals, and going straight to the semi-state level. Man that would be a 16-20 team sectional so don't expect to many wrestleback from the first round. It would sure make things more complicated logistically and timewise, but sure would put a ton more respect in making it to the next level of the tournament series. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hammer Posted February 5, 2010 Author Share Posted February 5, 2010 How does the current system fail to get the best 16 guys to semistate? Often, the 2 vs. 3 first round eliminates one of the 4 best kids in the Regional in quite a few weight classes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
littlevito Posted February 5, 2010 Share Posted February 5, 2010 No one will ever be happy with whichever system is in place. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chambers Posted February 5, 2010 Share Posted February 5, 2010 Often, the 2 vs. 3 first round eliminates one of the 4 best kids in the Regional in quite a few weight classes. Does it really eliminate one of the 4 best kids in the regional? If you are 2nd best in your sectional then there was 1 guy better than you. If you get beat by the 3rd best guy in the other sectional then there were 3 guys in the other sectional that was better than you. That is 4 guys. If you were 3rd in your sectional there were 2 guys better than you in your sectional. If you get beat by the 2nd best guy from the other sectional there were two guys from that sectional better than you. That makes 4 guys better than you. I don't see the problem. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hammer Posted February 5, 2010 Author Share Posted February 5, 2010 Does it really eliminate one of the 4 best kids in the regional? If you are 2nd best in your sectional then there was 1 guy better than you. If you get beat by the 3rd best guy in the other sectional then there were 3 guys in the other sectional that was better than you. That is 4 guys. If you were 3rd in your sectional there were 2 guys better than you in your sectional. If you get beat by the 2nd best guy from the other sectional there were two guys from that sectional better than you. That makes 4 guys better than you. I don't see the problem. If a kid is the second best kid in his sectional, but gets seeded 4th; or gets seeded 3rd, when the best kid is seeded 2nd, then there could be only one kid better than him in his sectional in that case. A good example of this was this year's Shelbyville's 125# class. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IUBjj171 Posted February 5, 2010 Share Posted February 5, 2010 1) Logistics would be a huge problem. Trying to pack 16 teams worth into a single gym. And their Fans? The SIAC meet at castle is packed enough without with 8 teams you add another 8 and the fire marshall would be there. 2) Logistics continued. DO you know how long it would take? IT would have to be a 2 day event for one because you wouldn't have enough time. Thats two days making weight and as a former wrestler, thats a freaking pain. 3) Depending on how much wrestle-backs you have you could run into breaking the 5 match rule. Say you dont have full wrestle-backs. People already complain that there isnt full wrestle-backs at State. This board would be filled with complaints: massive overflow 4) More people would want to class wrestling to accommodate the smaller schools (dont start talking class wrestling, there are other boards) I believe that the best 4 from each group already make it to semi-state down here in the SIAC. This would cause more problems than it would be worth Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Y2CJ41 Posted February 5, 2010 Share Posted February 5, 2010 We have too many teams in the tournament right now to eliminate a round. The only way to possibly do so is to allow the top 2 from sectional and combine eight sectionals into regional/semi-state. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NickS Posted February 5, 2010 Share Posted February 5, 2010 I agree Y2. If you do the math, 309 teams (?) into 16 sectionals would be averaged out to 19.3125 teams per sectional. That would mean that there would be multiple sectionals with 20+ teams. That would be WAY too big. The most feasible way of cutting out a round would be to expand the State Finals to 32-man brackets. Once you do that, you would have the 32 sectionals (that we have right now). Top 4 go to semi-state, in which there would be 8 semi-states. Then the top 4 from semi-state would advance onto state. Yes, I've thought this out a little. But I do agree with the idea that something needs to be done with the regional round. Not sure what the word is, but something is lacking in my opinion. Maybe it's because of lack of diversity, considering half the guys from your sectional are there. While taking top 4 to semi-state is ok, you only have to win 1 match and you move on. I don't know, it's not very dramatic for me. Just my 2 cents. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Midwest Wrestling Fanpage Posted February 5, 2010 Share Posted February 5, 2010 Why take matches away from the sport we all love, the kids don't get a hole lot of publicity for wrestling (like football, basketball) the way it is. If anything find something to add. Why do we always have people knocking the way it is. Indiana Wrestling is great and the people in the higher positions are doing a great job. I think the losers on Fri. night should be able to wrestle back, maybe add that but please don't take possible matches away from the boy's. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thecomets Posted February 5, 2010 Share Posted February 5, 2010 Individual State format Start Friday afternoon 11:30 WI 1:00 Wrestle R1 Friday Afternoon & R1 losers R2 Friday PM Quarters & Qtr losers vs. R1 consolation winners R3 Saturday AM Semis on 2 center mats R2 consolation winners on outside mats Saturday AM loser of semi vs. winner in R3 consolation winners R5 Saturday 4:00 consolation placement matches R6 Saturday PM FINALS UNDER THE LIGHTS Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maligned Posted February 5, 2010 Share Posted February 5, 2010 I've analyzed this every which way I can think of for the past 3 years and can't find a solution that doesn't involve a 2-day sectional or 2-day regional/semi-state round (unless we're willing to go all day on Friday with more participants at state). These are a couple of the most logistically workable and competitively justifiable ideas I've come up with, and they still have major flaws: Example 1: "Unbalanced sectionals" (16) 8-team sectionals (top 2 advance) (16) 12-team sectionals (top 3 advance) 20-man semi-state brackets (4) 8-team sectionals and (4) 12-team sectionals feed into each semi-state (20 total participants) 4 pigtail matches, round of 16, quarterfinals, semifinals, finals = 5 matches (no possibility for wrestlebacks in one-day event with 8 different sectionals of varying quality levels feeding in) Example 2: "Super sectionals" (20) 15/16-team sectionals (top 3 advance) (no chance for full wrestlebacks to find real 3rd if not 2-day event) 15-man semi-state brackets (5) super-sectionals feed into each semi-state (7 first round matches, one bye, unbalanced distribution of qualifiers w/5 super sectional champs) Again, I just don't see how it can work unless the state finals were expanded to include 24 or 32 wrestlers with a tournament that begins on Friday morning or Friday noon. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hogleg Posted February 5, 2010 Share Posted February 5, 2010 My complaint would be the logistics as well. Having a Merrillville type setting is bad enough once every year. Don't need it in consecutive weeks. For those of you on the board who don't know what the Merrillville Semi State is like, I encourage you to make the trip up north this year and give yourself a real treat. Then see if you want to pack 16+ schools and their fans into a undersized gym. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldcoach123 Posted February 5, 2010 Share Posted February 5, 2010 Probably very few of you are old enough to remember, but when I first got involved in Indiana wrestling, the early 70's, we had huge sectionals. The first two rounds, to get down to eight, were held on Wednesday evening. There were no wrestle backs at all. Top two to regionals and regional champ only to state. I think we could do the super-sectionals like that now and keep semi-state and state the same. (Of course, I would favor wrestle-backs at all levels, but that is a different problem.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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