zachpierson Posted February 3, 2010 Share Posted February 3, 2010 If the kid was injured that badly why did he step on the mat in the first place? If his goal was just to get to the next round and hope to be closer to 100% next week, then he shouldn't have been on the mat. On top of that he was winning at the time. If the purpose is just to advance in this situation, i am taking all precautions and not letting him wrestle. There is no reason to get hurt in basically a meaningless match. where did I ever say our only purpose was to advance???? No where we wanted to win. He got injured while he was winning a match. I know I know it never has happened ever but it did in this sectional so... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flockofseagulls Posted February 3, 2010 Share Posted February 3, 2010 where did I ever say our only purpose was to advance???? No where we wanted to win. He got injured while he was winning a match. I know I know it never has happened ever but it did in this sectional so... Actually in your first reply you never mentioned an actual injury. I believe that you claimed the other team did it first... "ok well one school said they were doing this move to stay away from the other wrestle so that he could see him in the finals of regionals ,instead of the semis ,to better his draw for semi state. By doing that it would hinder a sectional champs chances of moving on because they minupulated the system first. So i believe u guys are looking at the wrong team in this situation. " Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Y2CJ41 Posted February 3, 2010 Share Posted February 3, 2010 where did I ever say our only purpose was to advance???? No where we wanted to win. He got injured while he was winning a match. I know I know it never has happened ever but it did in this sectional so... If the kid was legitimately injured or had a pre-existing injury reaggravated, then I have no issues with it. You have to protect your kids for the advancement throughout the tournament. The issue that some are defending is if he is fine and dandy and just defaults to avoid someone. I truly hope the first case is the correct scenario, as I believe that teaching ethics, good sportsmanship and being a good role model is far superior than winning a wrestling match. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zachpierson Posted February 3, 2010 Share Posted February 3, 2010 If the kid was legitimately injured or had a pre-existing injury reaggravated, then I have no issues with it. You have to protect your kids for the advancement throughout the tournament. The issue that some are defending is if he is fine and dandy and just defaults to avoid someone. I truly hope the first case is the correct scenario, as I believe that teaching ethics, good sportsmanship and being a good role model is far superior than winning a wrestling match. I can say he is def not just fine and dandy it is gonna be a match time decision if he wrestles tomorrow Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Silence Dogood Posted February 3, 2010 Share Posted February 3, 2010 I can say he is def not just fine and dandy it is gonna be a match time decision if he wrestles tomorrow So how does the cell phone enter into the decision not the finish the match if it was a legitimate injury? Was the coach talking to a doctor or trainer? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GrecoCoach Posted February 3, 2010 Share Posted February 3, 2010 Don't get me wrong here. Wrestlebacks are the answer. They will make the tournament series better. However, The round to go at regionals and the Ticket round at semi state is some of the most exciting and inspired wrestling you will see. Knowing that if you lose your season is over is quite the motivator. So if there were those wrestlebacks those big win or go home matches would not occur and the exciting atmosphere would be lessened. It would still be exciting only less so. I used to think this way, too. That was until I realized that instead of just one "ticket" round, we'd get 2 rounds of it with wrestlebacks. The first would be in the semifinals - win and you're on to state. The second would be in the wrestlebacks where we still get "those big win or go home matches" (as you put it). Wrestlebacks would increase the drama and excitement, not lessen it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Y2CJ41 Posted February 3, 2010 Share Posted February 3, 2010 I think his wife was reminding him to pick up some milk on the way home. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Justdo^it135 Posted February 3, 2010 Share Posted February 3, 2010 I used to think this way, too. That was until I realized that instead of just one "ticket" round, we'd get 2 rounds of it with wrestlebacks. The first would be in the semifinals - win and you're on to state. The second would be in the wrestlebacks where we still get "those big win or go home matches" (as you put it). Wrestlebacks would increase the drama and excitement, not lessen it. Possibly. I'll have to think on that one. I just always remember getting so amped up for that ticket round match. you know for a week in advance who it is gonna be and by the time it comes around you are so excited you just wrestle like you are on fire. I'm sure a couple other guys that have wrestled that round might agree with me. Either way we need to have wrestlebacks. Its the right way for it to be. So in the grand scheme of things i suppose it doesn't really matter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flightinstructor Posted February 3, 2010 Share Posted February 3, 2010 So how does the cell phone enter into the decision not the finish the match if it was a legitimate injury? Was the coach talking to a doctor or trainer? Man up Zach, You respond to everything but this? Why don't you admit you were on the other end of that call. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zachpierson Posted February 3, 2010 Share Posted February 3, 2010 I would if it were me but the coaches already knew what was going on as I told them what was going on as the 4th place finisher was sitting right behind me telling these girls he was only wrestling one more match after he had wrestled in the quarter so I told them what was going on way before the actual inj def happened so I can't explain the phone call as I wasn't on the other end of the phone Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GrecoCoach Posted February 3, 2010 Share Posted February 3, 2010 Possibly. I'll have to think on that one. I just always remember getting so amped up for that ticket round match. you know for a week in advance who it is gonna be and by the time it comes around you are so excited you just wrestle like you are on fire. I'm sure a couple other guys that have wrestled that round might agree with me. Either way we need to have wrestlebacks. Its the right way for it to be. So in the grand scheme of things i suppose it doesn't really matter. I agree with the intensity of the ticket round. I know because I won that round 3 times. Wrestlebacks will give us 2 rounds of that intensity instead of just 1. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
navy80 Posted February 3, 2010 Share Posted February 3, 2010 after reading through 8 pages of posts, i still am not 100% sure on what happened? Clem 29-11 inj dflt his championship match to get Tran 31-8 first round of regionals instead of duncan 16-6? I am prolly lost, I alos hear about 4th place finisher, i dunno sounds interesting though. I would def. try and avoid Wright and Keiffer in regionals if all possible, who wouldnt? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Justdo^it135 Posted February 3, 2010 Share Posted February 3, 2010 I think i agree with you. And i won that round three times too. Still think about the match i lost that round more than any of the rest though. Freshmen year was rough. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zachpierson Posted February 3, 2010 Share Posted February 3, 2010 after reading through 8 pages of posts, i still am not 100% sure on what happened? Clem 29-11 inj dflt his championship match to get Tran 31-8 first round of regionals instead of duncan 16-6? I am prolly lost, I alos hear about 4th place finisher, i dunno sounds interesting though. I would def. try and avoid Wright and Keiffer in regionals if all possible, who wouldnt? haha 4th place finisher = Duncan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
army197 Posted February 3, 2010 Share Posted February 3, 2010 why not wrestle and win and give your kid some confidence going into regionals and if he loses in the semi's wrestle back to 3rd you might draw a champion from another regional that your kid can beat. no matter how you look at it you draw into a regional champion so winning sectionals or placing second your showing you dont believe in that wrestler in beating somone else at another regional. yes i understand there are those "studs" in alot of the regionals but there are weaker regionals that go into semi-states that dont have "studs" there. believe in your kid in anyway anything can happen in a wrestling match. i dont believe in doing this but everyone has there reasons. i wouldve still had the kid wrestle win and come away with alot of confidence going into regionals. just my opinion Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NickS Posted February 3, 2010 Share Posted February 3, 2010 Alright, I'm a little late to the party but this is what I'm gathering from the Bobby Cox email... The coach received a cell phone call during the match in question. After receiving the cellphone call, this coach decided to injury default his wrestler. I have a few questions, maybe they've already been addressed. Did the cell phone call actually happen prior to the injury default? Did the wrestler use any injury time? Did he use all of his injury time? When the call came in, was the wrestler already using injury time? or was it until after the call that he started using injury time? If the wrestler wasn't using injury time yet, how long after the call did the wrestler start using injury time? In other words, what was the time period from the end of the call to the beginning of injury time? I'm just curious if any observer was there that could comment on this on here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flightinstructor Posted February 3, 2010 Share Posted February 3, 2010 I agree with the intensity of the ticket round. I know because I won that round 3 times. This post shows the powers that be just how much we need an applause button set to the track of a thunderous crowd. Maybe if you had to click on each post to read it the sound track would begin depending on the wahoo/boo ratio. I'm sure you weren't intending to toot your own horn but...TOOT TOOT!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NickS Posted February 3, 2010 Share Posted February 3, 2010 I guess we've finally found a drawback to advancing the top 4 from regionals, instead of just top 3... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Silence Dogood Posted February 3, 2010 Share Posted February 3, 2010 For those that don't think it's wrong to injury default when you aren't injured if it will possibly give you a better chance to advance in the tournament because it's not against the rules, what do you think about taking an injury default after an illegal move if you aren't injured? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
captainzero Posted February 3, 2010 Share Posted February 3, 2010 The comments that are condoning this situation are just a microcosm of today's society - the win at all cost attitude. What happened to honor? Our society condones these actions as long as the coach is winning, but once the coach starts losing, all bets are off. My son received a tough draw in the ticket round at Semi-State last year, and thought he might, but never once thought about throwing his match in the Regional championship to get a better draw. He can look himself in the mirror today and know that he "tried his best and gave everything he had on the mat!" The thing I like most about High School wrestling is that it teaches kids life lessons. What life lesson is manipulating the system teaching our kids? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KarlHungus Posted February 3, 2010 Share Posted February 3, 2010 For those that don't think it's wrong to injury default when you aren't injured if it will possibly give you a better chance to advance in the tournament because it's not against the rules, what do you think about taking an injury default after an illegal move if you aren't injured? Cowardly but more gray area. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Silence Dogood Posted February 3, 2010 Share Posted February 3, 2010 Cowardly but more gray area. Where's the gray area if the criteria of right and wrong is whether there is a rule for it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
navy80 Posted February 3, 2010 Share Posted February 3, 2010 so some people think Duncan purposely inj dflt his match to stay on the other side of the bracket away from Keiffer? or to get a better first round draw against a guy with a losing record? Was he trying to stay away from Clem? I know all this is hear-say and nobody can confirm it but its morally wrong, also if you are not cheatin your not trying, lol...If he was up 8-0 and all that nonsense then yeah thats wrong It will work itself out this weekend though, who says he will even win his first match? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coach Peck Posted February 3, 2010 Share Posted February 3, 2010 In my opinion, a coach that would pull this kind of crap has no business working with young men in athletics. It is cowardice and cheating. If I caught a coach doing that, he'd be finished. Just wrestle to the best of your ability and let the chips fall where the may. If I were the wrestler, I would have refused to comply. Up until about 1981 (around then) the draw for the whole Individual tournament was placed in the December Bulletin for all to see. There were numerous times when coaches defaulted wrestlers in the Finals of the Sectional so as to gain a better draw in the Regional. One place where this happened more than once was in the Sectionals in Delaware County where I saw both John Smith and Don Patton do this to give their kid a better chance in the Regional and there team a chance of scoring more points. I do not think either of those guys were cowards or cheats, and I doubt that if this was done this year the coach who did it was a coward or a cheat. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KarlHungus Posted February 3, 2010 Share Posted February 3, 2010 The gray area is whether the kid is actually injured or not. Ethically there is no difference. If you know for certain the kid is not injured and he tells you he is not injured it equally as wrong. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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