littlevito Posted February 2, 2010 Share Posted February 2, 2010 Just got an E-mail stating that semi-state draws will not be released till Sunday online. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Y2CJ41 Posted February 2, 2010 Share Posted February 2, 2010 I just received an email stating that due some events during sectional last week, that the draw for semi-state won't be released until sometime Sunday. That is from Bobby Cox and the athletic director of our semi-state. I am sorry for any inconvience this will cause and hope to have the brackets up as soon as humanly possible on Sunday. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
littlevito Posted February 2, 2010 Author Share Posted February 2, 2010 To: IHSAA Wrestling Tournament Host Athletic Administrators From: Bobby Cox, Assistant Commissioner Re: Tournament Pairings Good afternoon. It is with extreme regret that I relay the following account that I received personally today from one of our tournament hosts. Apparently during a bout in a sectional, a coach sitting at the corner of the mat was using his cell phone. Upon wrapping up that conversation and at the end of a period, the coach summoned his wrestler over and instructed him to injury default from the bout. The conclusion drawn from the tournament director was that the coach had received information about his wrestler?s potential opponent in the individual regional and instructed him to default thereby orchestrating an opponent that the coach felt his wrestler would fair better against the following week. While I find this extremely unethical and distasteful, I have no concrete proof this is truly the case. Our past protocol has been to post the pairings for the next level on the tournament on Friday afternoon as a convenience to the tournament hosts. Apparently this practice has now been compromised. In an effort to remedy this matter the following standard is in effect immediately: Pairings for subsequent levels of the IHSAA individual wrestling tournament shall be posted on the members? website at www.ihsaa.net on the Sunday following the conclusion of the previous level tournament. (Example ? Individual Regional concludes on Saturday, Individual Semi State Pairings will be posted the following day on Sunday). I apologize for any inconvenience this may cause our tournament directors yet I feel strongly that this measure must be taken to insure the purity of competition in our wrestling tournament series. Bobby Cox Assistant Commissioner Indiana High School Athletic Association, Inc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loki27 Posted February 2, 2010 Share Posted February 2, 2010 Whatever, I thought they always did the ss drawings after all regionals were complete. so what exactly changed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Y2CJ41 Posted February 2, 2010 Share Posted February 2, 2010 After regional coaches were given a sheet with the bracket formula. In the past four years, IndianaMat and formerly GarrettWrestling.com has had the semi-state brackets up by 8 or 9pm on that Saturday night, just after the results were posted online. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tangarrray Posted February 2, 2010 Share Posted February 2, 2010 Come on! This so called incident may or may not have happened at the sectional. There are only 2 sectionals feeding into a regional so it doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure out who his kid is wrestling at the regional without using the "official" Ihsaa pairings sheet to manipulate the draw. The Great Oz himself even says he has "no concrete proof" that this even occurred. So now , with only speculation and no proof we all have to wait until Sunday to read the pairings. The suspense is going to keep me awake all night ;D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coltfan64 Posted February 2, 2010 Share Posted February 2, 2010 In my opinion, a coach that would pull this kind of crap has no business working with young men in athletics. It is cowardice and cheating. If I caught a coach doing that, he'd be finished. Just wrestle to the best of your ability and let the chips fall where the may. If I were the wrestler, I would have refused to comply. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Y2CJ41 Posted February 2, 2010 Share Posted February 2, 2010 The kid could refuse to injury default, but a coach can override that and tell the ref his kid is injury defaulting and the referee must grant it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Iwin99 Posted February 2, 2010 Share Posted February 2, 2010 In my opinion, a coach that would pull this kind of crap has no business working with young men in athletics. It is cowardice and cheating. If I caught a coach doing that, he'd be finished. Just wrestle to the best of your ability and let the chips fall where the may. If I were the wrestler, I would have refused to comply. Well if you were aware of what coach did this you may change your mind... He has had many State placing teams over the last 10 years. Although probably unethical, as a coach would you want your sectional champion wrestler to draw into a returning state qualifier? I dont like the move but im sure it cant be proven whether it did or did not happen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1oldwrestler Posted February 2, 2010 Share Posted February 2, 2010 Come on! This so called incident may or may not have happened at the sectional. There are only 2 sectionals feeding into a regional so it doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure out who his kid is wrestling at the regional without using the "official" Ihsaa pairings sheet to manipulate the draw. The Great Oz himself even says he has "no concrete proof" that this even occurred. So now , with only speculation and no proof we all have to wait until Sunday to read the pairings. The suspense is going to keep me awake all night ;D I agree with tang. Tho proactive, the IHSAA isn't going to prevent this from occurring by delaying the pairings for SS. If the coach actually did what he's accused of, he did it by having one of his assistants at the other feeder Sectional and that other Sectional was ahead of schedule. The assistant phoned in with whatever weight class was in question just before the kid walked on the mat for his match in the same weight class. Pretty simple to pull off if the timing is there. I will say that I thank God my boys don't wrestle for that team. What a dink that coach is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1oldwrestler Posted February 2, 2010 Share Posted February 2, 2010 Well if you were aware of what coach did this you may change your mind... He has had many State placing teams over the last 10 years. Although probably unethical, as a coach would you want your sectional champion wrestler to draw into a returning state qualifier? I dont like the move but im sure it cant be proven whether it did or did not happen. With this little tid bit of info it's pretty easy to figure out which team and coach did this. Before this, I really had no opinion one way or the other regarding this team, however, now I will be happy to root against them as team state unfolds. Maybe this team's fans need to pipe down on this website and send their coach to an ethics class. Two words: Bush League! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
littlevito Posted February 3, 2010 Author Share Posted February 3, 2010 I think it's bad for one coach to get thrown under the bus for this. I'm pretty sure other coaches have done this in the past. There is always people in connection with other people wondering what is going on. I know of one regional that is done while another is still in the semis, coaches are always in contact with someone wanting to know the draws. It is just wrong to know and use it in the wrong way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1oldwrestler Posted February 3, 2010 Share Posted February 3, 2010 Razo - this guy deserves to be thrown under the bus. You yourself admit a coach, armed with information, shouldn't "use it in the wrong way." If he did what he did, he used it in the wrong way, period. I'm for throwing him under the bus and and having it back over him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
decbell1 Posted February 3, 2010 Share Posted February 3, 2010 I wouldn't mind if they backed the bus up and threw him back under. I don't have match results written down, but didn't said wrestler finish ahead of the kid he was trying to dodge at the County Tournament? To me the move doesn't make a whole lot of sense, besides losing the respect of the wrestling community as a whole. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Cooper Posted February 3, 2010 Share Posted February 3, 2010 I'm with Razo... probably not the first time this was done. How is inj defaulting for 4th different than inj defaulting for 2nd? I'm guessing the inj def in the 3/4th place match was to get in the opposite bracket from the same sectional champ. How is providing the best possible opportunity for your wrestler, within the rules, an unethical coaching move? If there is anything unethical, it's the decision made at the seed meeting a week ago. If the seeds are done right, then the best kids are in the 1st/2nd place match instead of one of the best in the 3rd/4th match. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
decbell1 Posted February 3, 2010 Share Posted February 3, 2010 Does anyone else think like me on this? If your goal is to qualify for state................ and you aren't going to win your Regional Why in the world does it matter if you get 2nd, 3rd, or 4th? You have to beat a Regional Champ either way, and you have no way of knowing which one you will draw into. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tangarrray Posted February 3, 2010 Share Posted February 3, 2010 All kidding aside about the availability of pairings, this situation could make a good argument for wrestle backs at each stage of the tournament series. If a quarter final loss at regionals wouldn't eliminate a wrestler, maybe a coach wouldn't feel the need to try and beat the system. In no way am I condoning what was allegedly done by this coach. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zachpierson Posted February 3, 2010 Share Posted February 3, 2010 ok well one school said they were doing this move to stay away from the other wrestle so that he could see him in the finals of regionals ,instead of the semis ,to better his draw for semi state. By doing that it would hinder a sectional champs chances of moving on because they minupulated the system first. So i believe u guys are looking at the wrong team in this situation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Y2CJ41 Posted February 3, 2010 Share Posted February 3, 2010 Chris, From what I have heard this is the situation. The coach was on a cell phone with someone at the other sectional. His kid was up 8-0 and after he heard the result he was interested in, called his kid over and told him to injury default the match. This was the championship match of sectional. To me knowing this it sounds highly unethical and definitely is not doing anything in teaching the kids about doing what is right in life. This is telling a kid to skirt around the rules to get what you want instead of earning it. This kind of stuff does not make the wrestling community look very good at all. It makes the coaches look bad for pulling things like this to gain a so called advantage. This also sets back anything we want to do with the IHSAA because they look at our coaches and see a bunch of hillbillies that have to be policed like little kids. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Y2CJ41 Posted February 3, 2010 Share Posted February 3, 2010 ok well one school said they were doing this move to stay away from the other wrestle so that he could see him in the finals of regionals ,instead of the semis ,to better his draw for semi state. By doing that it would hinder a sectional champs chances of moving on because they minupulated the system first. So i believe u guys are looking at the wrong team in this situation. Two wrongs don't make a right, it is three lefts that make a right. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NCWrestlefan Posted February 3, 2010 Share Posted February 3, 2010 I'm with Razo... probably not the first time this was done. How is inj defaulting for 4th different than inj defaulting for 2nd? I'm guessing the inj def in the 3/4th place match was to get in the opposite bracket from the same sectional champ. How is providing the best possible opportunity for your wrestler, within the rules, an unethical coaching move? If there is anything unethical, it's the decision made at the seed meeting a week ago. If the seeds are done right, then the best kids are in the 1st/2nd place match instead of one of the best in the 3rd/4th match. Up 8-0 in 3rd throwing the match, What would you consider unethical to be teaching a High School Wrestler?? Can't decide which baffles me the most, the fact that you can't see how this is unethical, or the fact that someone with those views could ever be a part of the IHSWCA Board!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IndianaWrestlingGuy1 Posted February 3, 2010 Share Posted February 3, 2010 Is there any reason why we are talking in code here? Is there any other sectional last weekend where a 29-11 wrestler had an 8 point lead on a 10-15 wrestler in the 3rd period of a sectional final and defaulted? Umm, see Decatur Central Sectional 119lbs. Look, I don't consider this cheating. In this case, drawing into and beating a 31-8 senior to advance to lose to Kieffer in the regional semis for semi-state advancement vs beating a 16-6 senior to advance with the potential of getting to the finals doesn't seem like a brilliant coaching move. In fact, I think they overthought it. It is certainly no rocket science to see who placed where in the opposing sectional leading into a two-sectional regional. If this is a move by the gestapo to punish every other program in the state or to "teach a message", it is futile. But, what else would you expect from the bureaucratic society of high school principals/ADs?! The IHSAA too often tries to inflict their will in places they shouldn't like witholding a tourney draw, but refuses to consider something equally basic like wrestlebacks before the State Tournament. Can someone please teach our southside friends how to text message? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IndianaWrestlingGuy1 Posted February 3, 2010 Share Posted February 3, 2010 PS. Tomorrow night I will be at the North Montgomery Team Regional watching the Cathedral Irish seek another regional title. You can bet i will know exactly who wins the match between Franklin and Bloomington South first round via text message and have itemized match scores. These are the times we live in. It isn't compromising tournament ethics, it is having a higher threshold for obtaining information. Sorry, boys, I can't buy the unethical slant. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MattM Posted February 3, 2010 Share Posted February 3, 2010 Seems like they just should always release the pairings after the full conclusion of that round of the tournament. With sectionals ending quicker or snow delays you will always have some people with extra information that can be used to skew the outcome. By waiting until the conclusion of the entire round to release the next brackets it would prevent some of the forward thinking. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Y2CJ41 Posted February 3, 2010 Share Posted February 3, 2010 If a team loses tomorrow night, they are out of the tournament, there is a big difference. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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