decbell1 Posted February 3, 2010 Share Posted February 3, 2010 How about this- Team state, final match. After the 13th match, your team is up by 7 team score. Is it unethical to ff the last match and take the state title? I guess we can all agree to disagree here, but I believe that forfeiting is a little bit different than injury defaulting. He defaulted after 2 periods. I think you simply have to look at what the IHSAA did a while back about forfeiting in the Team Tournament. They apparently found it unethical enough to prohibit it in the team tournament. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
decbell1 Posted February 3, 2010 Share Posted February 3, 2010 There are 300 other kids at 119 that would have gladly taken his sectional championship. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Y2CJ41 Posted February 3, 2010 Share Posted February 3, 2010 Whether you think its unethical or not nothing illegal was done so i'd be surprised if he was suspended. A stern talking to at the most. Obviously something happened that was wrong since now everyone is being punished for it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Signal34 Posted February 3, 2010 Share Posted February 3, 2010 Wow, I really see your point (sarcasm). Whats the difference, except one is probably more dangerous then the other, your putting your life and the life of your family in danger. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Cooper Posted February 3, 2010 Share Posted February 3, 2010 Yea, I'm serious.... I see nothing wrong with a ff in that situation. I figured no one would. Now how about this (and if you think this is different, tell me how).... Same situation, up 7 team points, last match at team state. You send your last kid out to wrestle and he is up in the 3rd period. What if you inj def then? What if it's a heated match and you're afraid of your kid costing team points for whatever reason? Why take the risk and continue the match? Is that an unethical decision? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Y2CJ41 Posted February 3, 2010 Share Posted February 3, 2010 Whats the difference, except one is probably more dangerous then the other, your putting your life and the life of your family in danger. You honestly want to compare the two? You have to be kidding. I guess we live in a society where winning takes precedence over teaching life skills and how to be a good human being and doing the right thing. I really am ashamed to call myself a wrestling coach when people are backing up what this coach did. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zachpierson Posted February 3, 2010 Share Posted February 3, 2010 Ok well for those of you who don't know there was a injury time at the end of the second period and there is also a good chance that the 119lber in question might not not be able to wrestle tomorrow so I really hope all of you have to put your foot in your mouth cause there really is an injury to be concerned about here and the other point I want to make is I would think that the other team kinda made it clear they were dodging the sectional champ to get a better draw at regionals Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Silence Dogood Posted February 3, 2010 Share Posted February 3, 2010 For those that don't think this is an issue, what do we do when both wrestlers have information about an unfavorable draw and both want to injury default the match - is it just going to be a race to see who can do it first? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
frigginhurts Posted February 3, 2010 Share Posted February 3, 2010 you honestly think FF the final match at team state is the same as inj defaulting when you don't have an injury so that you can manipulate who you wrestle at the regional are the same thing? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1oldwrestler Posted February 3, 2010 Share Posted February 3, 2010 Whats the difference, except one is probably more dangerous then the other, your putting your life and the life of your family in danger. Speeding is breaking the law and so is murdering someone. There's a difference there just as there is a difference between speeding and being unethical. Bad comparison. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
clive2246 Posted February 3, 2010 Share Posted February 3, 2010 I'm still wondering if Sunday weigh ins are wrong too..... ??? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RankingsGuy Posted February 3, 2010 Share Posted February 3, 2010 as much heat as i'll take for this.. i'm going to have to agree w/ justdoit^135.. i applaud the coach for protecting his wrestler.. win, win win, though maybe that's just my region mindset coming out Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Y2CJ41 Posted February 3, 2010 Share Posted February 3, 2010 Yea, I'm serious.... I see nothing wrong with a ff in that situation. I figured no one would. Now how about this (and if you think this is different, tell me how).... Same situation, up 7 team points, last match at team state. You send your last kid out to wrestle and he is up in the 3rd period. What if you inj def then? What if it's a heated match and you're afraid of your kid costing team points for whatever reason? Why take the risk and continue the match? Is that an unethical decision? If your kid is not acting like you would want your kids to act on the mat then I have no problem with it during any match. If we have a kid acting inappropriately I would not hesitate to pull him off the mat immediately. These are still two different situations completely. The kid was winning and mid match the coach got a call, said hey default this match then did. He was doing what he was supposed to be doing in winning a match, then he took a dive per what his coach told him to do. In your situation, the kid did not take a dive. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
frigginhurts Posted February 3, 2010 Share Posted February 3, 2010 Ok well for those of you who don't know there was a injury time at the end of the second period and there is also a good chance that the 119lber in question might not not be able to wrestle tomorrow so I really hope all of you have to put your foot in your mouth cause there really is an injury to be concerned about here and the other point I want to make is I would think that the other team kinda made it clear they were dodging the sectional champ to get a better draw at regionals i missed this part....who was the 'other' team that was dodging a sectional champ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Justdo^it135 Posted February 3, 2010 Share Posted February 3, 2010 Thanks Rankings Guy. I like winning too. And also from Da Region. Quick warning though, your cool points are about to take a serious hit. Mine just did. Ha. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
decbell1 Posted February 3, 2010 Share Posted February 3, 2010 zachpierson, Obviously all of these arguments are being based off of information given to us and the hypotheticals to follow. I highly doubt that anyone would have the same opinion if an injury actually occurred. I am not sure anyone really cares about the coach and wrestler specifically anymore, it has become more of a debate about the situation in general. I am way too excited about Regionals tomorrow, so I am out of here. I guess we are all raised differently, but my wife, parents, and probably even my 89 year old grandpa would be ashamed of me if I were to take the same action in the same situation if there were no injury present. Maybe that makes us bad people or uncompetitive, but I definitely wouldn't want to be on the other side. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IndianaWrestlingGuy1 Posted February 3, 2010 Share Posted February 3, 2010 You won't know your draw until Sunday for state, so you honestly have no clue who you will be wrestling. That is not the same thing. This coach knew EXACTLY who his kid would get win or lose and chose to default during the middle of the match to get what he thought was a better draw. I guess to me its the cowards way out instead of deciding it on the mat. If you don't strive to do your best and take dives to get things you want then to me you are coward. One of my wrestlers last week, knew if he won in the finals, his day this week would be tougher. He didn't take a dive because he knows he is capable of beating the same kid next week. Call it what you want: cowardice, spinelessness, etc. I call it increasing the chances for advancement. To continue along this scenario for the point: BWright is #1 in the state and Kieffer is #2 in the State by almost everyone's opinion. If I have a chance to have a wrestler that is an above average underclassmen that has never been to Conseco bypass those two, you can't tell me that it is cowardly to help his draw through the tournament to get that chance on the big stage. Even an appearance at Conseco as a sophomore (for instance) would do wonders for his overall career. I hate to open up a can of worms here, but is this any different than the Colts throwing the first Jets game to increase their tournament draw (or keeping the Steelers out) while helping the health of their players? Ethics are subjective. Everyone has a different opinion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Cooper Posted February 3, 2010 Share Posted February 3, 2010 you honestly think FF the final match at team state is the same as inj defaulting when you don't have an injury so that you can manipulate who you wrestle at the regional are the same thing? In both cases, you are making a decision to injury default a match to achieve a higher goal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
awood2 Posted February 3, 2010 Share Posted February 3, 2010 as much heat as i'll take for this.. i'm going to have to agree w/ justdoit^135.. i applaud the coach for protecting his wrestler.. win, win win, though maybe that's just my region mindset coming out And why can't we 'boo' someone more than once an hour... : Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zachpierson Posted February 3, 2010 Share Posted February 3, 2010 The kid who inj def to 4th in his sectional is he now going to win his first match at regionals and inj def the next 2 matches to get 4th again? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Y2CJ41 Posted February 3, 2010 Share Posted February 3, 2010 Call it what you want: cowardice, spinelessness, etc. I call it increasing the chances for advancement. To continue along this scenario for the point: BWright is #1 in the state and Kieffer is #2 in the State by almost everyone's opinion. If I have a chance to have a wrestler that is an above average underclassmen that has never been to Conseco bypass those two, you can't tell me that it is cowardly to help his draw through the tournament to get that chance on the big stage. Even an appearance at Conseco as a sophomore (for instance) would do wonders for his overall career. I hate to open up a can of worms here, but is this any different than the Colts throwing the first Jets game to increase their tournament draw (or keeping the Steelers out) while helping the health of their players? Ethics are subjective. Everyone has a different opinion. How are you going to greater his chances if you don't know the draw? Are you going to call Miss Cleo and get a psychic reading? Professional sports vs. high school sports are two different worlds. As a coach at the high school level, while I love to win, I feel my job is greater than that. I want to have a positive impact on the kids and hopefully be a great role model for them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
awood2 Posted February 3, 2010 Share Posted February 3, 2010 Thanks Rankings Guy. I like winning too. And also from Da Region. Quick warning though, your cool points are about to take a serious hit. Mine just did. Ha. Crawfordsville = Da' Region ??? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Y2CJ41 Posted February 3, 2010 Share Posted February 3, 2010 The kid who inj def to 4th in his sectional is he now going to win his first match at regionals and inj def the next 2 matches to get 4th again? If he has a legitamate injury like one that has kept him out part of the season, then there is no problem with it. Just as Danny Williams did. Its when you default mid match without an injury that is unethical. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
frigginhurts Posted February 3, 2010 Share Posted February 3, 2010 In both cases, you are making a decision to injury default a match to achieve a higher goal. i was talking about the first case where you are up by 7 and just FF ...i really don't have an answer on your second scenario...you may have me there although i honestly don't think they are the same thing, i really don't have an answer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RankingsGuy Posted February 3, 2010 Share Posted February 3, 2010 i believe justdoit135 hails from hobart, crawfordsville is a temporary home of sorts for him.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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