Thornton Posted January 26, 2010 Share Posted January 26, 2010 In looking through the brackets I must admit to being more than a little perplexed at the seeds at 125. Jake Williams from Shelbyville is the #1 seed with Brandon Wright of Warren Central #2 and Justin Kieffer of Roncalli #3. Now Jake is a solid senior, but how does he get seeded over Wright and Kieffer. I understand that there are criteria to follow. Head to head is 1st. Brandon has no losses on the mat (he injury defaulted at the Marion County tournament and since his record is listed as 19-1, that is his only loss). Justin has 2 losses, both to Brandon, so no head to head (Roncalli wrestled Shelbyville in a dual, but I assume Kieffer and Williams didn't wrestle). Next is record against common opponants. Did Williams defeat the wrestler that Brandon defaulted to. If so, that is not exactly keeping with the spirit of the rule. Next is returning champ or runner up in the same weight class. This must be where Williams got the seed because last is winning percentage. If someone could shed some light on this that would be great. I hope that someone didn't violate section X, paragraph B #5 which states that seeding should be based on demonstrated ability and not a desire to seek unwarranted advantage. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Y2CJ41 Posted January 26, 2010 Share Posted January 26, 2010 Its called home field advantage. It happened at Carroll too, even when the coaches voted 9-2. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RankingsGuy Posted January 26, 2010 Share Posted January 26, 2010 It really is a travesty that these two are going to end up 1st and 3rd in this weight class because 1st and 3rd from the same sectional end up on the same side of the bracket at Regionals and meet in the semi-finals practically guaranteeing another 1st and 3rd finish for these two at the Regional. If one decides to injury default and take 4th, the other sectional champion will be sent home in the first round at Regionals and will not advance to the Semi-State. this is a horrible mess that should have been avoided.. shame on Shelbyville Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dingo Brigade Posted January 26, 2010 Share Posted January 26, 2010 Man, that is very messed up. Williams is a tough kid, but Wright and Kieffer are two of Indiana's very best wrestlers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tkdwn2 Posted January 26, 2010 Share Posted January 26, 2010 Let the games begin!!!! Who will take a inj. default? If you are at the DC sectional...what do you do if you aren't the best? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RankingsGuy Posted January 26, 2010 Share Posted January 26, 2010 what do you do even if you are the best?! there's a chance that the semi-final loser of wright/kieffer could inj. default to take 4th and the best kid at DC would then want to take 2nd.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RankingsGuy Posted January 26, 2010 Share Posted January 26, 2010 it seems a guarantee that wright and kieffer will end up occupying either 1st and 3rd or 1st and 4th. Therefore, since taking 2nd is not really an option for either of them, it appears that the no-brainer high percentage move is for the best kid at DC to take 3rd, guaranteeing that he doesn't face Wright or Kieffer in round 1 at Regionals, and giving himself the best chance to advance to Semi-State. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Extra6 Posted January 26, 2010 Share Posted January 26, 2010 All i no right now is Riley Mclurg from Beech Grove is smiling big right now ;D lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cewrestlingfan Posted January 26, 2010 Share Posted January 26, 2010 If I were wright or kiefer, I would default the 3rd place match at sectional and take 4th gauranteeing that they don't meet again in the regional semi final. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NLCards Posted January 26, 2010 Share Posted January 26, 2010 If I were wright or kiefer, I would default the 3rd place match at sectional and take 4th gaunteeing that they don't meet again in the regional semi final. Why? There isn't much difference between a 2nd or 3rd place regional finish when it comes to the Semi-State draw. It more comes down to a luck of the draw, right? Or maybe I'm missing something. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cewrestlingfan Posted January 26, 2010 Share Posted January 26, 2010 If one finishes 3rd at regional, then they would meet up again in the semi finals at semi state.....and if one finishes 3rd at semi state then they could meet again in the state semi finals instead of the finals. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Y2CJ41 Posted January 26, 2010 Share Posted January 26, 2010 If one finishes 3rd at regional, then they would meet up again in the semi finals at semi state.....and if one finishes 3rd at semi state then they could meet again in the state semi finals instead of the finals. No, at semi-state and state on the same side is 1 and 4 and the other side is 2 and 3. Only at regional does 1 and 3 go on the same side since its an 8 man bracket instead of 16 like at semi-state and state. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cewrestlingfan Posted January 26, 2010 Share Posted January 26, 2010 OK my bad Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mickswife Posted January 26, 2010 Share Posted January 26, 2010 If Keiffer Inj defaults to 4th, will that hurt their chances to make it to team regionals? Stuff like this shouldn't happen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
edb41 Posted January 26, 2010 Share Posted January 26, 2010 So, who actually makes the decision to put him ahead of Kieffer and Wright? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
decbell1 Posted January 26, 2010 Share Posted January 26, 2010 If Keiffer Inj defaults to 4th, will that hurt their chances to make it to team regionals? Stuff like this shouldn't happen. That would have to be something that Roncalli coaches weigh on their own. If the team race is close (which it should be, as New Pal and Roncalli actually tied at an individual tournament earlier this year I think), then I would highly doubt that they would take the chance of losing a possible 4 points for their team, just so that he can gain one spot in seeding down the road. Personally, the kid ought to think that he is the 2nd best kid in the state, so I am not sure why it matters if he gets his shot at #1 in the semifinals of sectional and regional, or in the finals. I would assume the ultimate goal is to make it to Saturday night under the lights, which he could still make without injury defaulting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
decbell1 Posted January 26, 2010 Share Posted January 26, 2010 So, who actually makes the decision to put him ahead of Kieffer and Wright? The coaches and/or tournament director would have to decide to follow the rules strictly. To be honest, I think the whole thing is not that big of a deal. If the other sectional coming into their regional had two Top-Ranked guys, it might, but why does it really matter if one of them gets 2nd or 3rd if their goals are to place in the Top 4 at state? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NLCards Posted January 26, 2010 Share Posted January 26, 2010 The coaches and/or tournament director would have to decide to follow the rules strictly. To be honest, I think the whole thing is not that big of a deal. If the other sectional coming into their regional had two Top-Ranked guys, it might, but why does it really matter if one of them gets 2nd or 3rd if their goals are to place in the Top 4 at state? Because it screws the kid who finishes 2nd in the other Sectional, when his goal may be to MAKE it to State or even Semi-State. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NavyGonzo Posted January 26, 2010 Share Posted January 26, 2010 Because it screws the kid who finishes 2nd in the other Sectional, when his goal may be to MAKE it to State or even Semi-State. Well then, "he" better kick it up a notch and win the sectional. You can't let something, like the possibility of a bad draw, effect the way you wrestle. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
decbell1 Posted January 26, 2010 Share Posted January 26, 2010 Then the kid got a bad draw, just like 30-40% of the other kids in their sectionals who actually went out and wrestled good competition, took some losses, and got rewarded with a #2 seed instead of a #1, or the kid that should have got a #3 seed that got seeded 4th because he has three losses to the same State-Ranked guy, while the other guy got 4 forfeits throughout the year. Seedings are not supposed to determine who finishes where. There are set rules for how sectionals are seeded each and every year, because they are as fair as possible, and you just have to wrestle it out from there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TCWrestling Posted January 26, 2010 Share Posted January 26, 2010 As I said on another post, the reason Williams got the #1 seed is because he had no head to head matches or common opponents with Wright or Kieffer. The next criteria was any returning champ or runner up, and Williams was the runner up at 125 last year, therefore he got the number one seed. Not saying it is right, but thats how it was determined. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NLCards Posted January 26, 2010 Share Posted January 26, 2010 I would agree that it's the same if a loss in the 1st round of Regionals didn't put you out of the tourney, but it does, so I don't. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thornton Posted January 26, 2010 Author Share Posted January 26, 2010 Didn't Roncalli wrestle Shelbyville? If so, then they should have wrestled and settled this situation. If someone was held out of that meet just so they could later claim criteria in a seeding meeting then that is either very clever or bending the spirit of the rules to gain an advantage that couldn't be gained by actually wrestling. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
X-Face Posted January 26, 2010 Share Posted January 26, 2010 Actually, neither Justin Kieffer nor Jake Williams wrestled in the dual between Roncalli and Shelbyville. Williams was injured at the time. Josh Kieffer wrestled up at 125 instead of 119. Not sure why Justin didn't wrestle. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grapplerdad Posted January 27, 2010 Share Posted January 27, 2010 I know we werent at the meeting but don't all sectionals follow the criteria set by the state. This wasnt a Shelbyville thing was it? Also looking at the 119 bracket it doesnt look like the best two wrestlers will meet in the finals. The top half of that bracket looks much tougher than the bottom. Couldnt Duncan be considered the second best kid and then get the 2 seed? Was there a vote taken about the 125 seeds? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts