Sig40

Do you actually have to wrestle to qualify? Or could one just register and then forfeit twice?

Why don't we ask the ISWA to move the state tournament towards the end of May? Give the clubs more opportunity to make money. Also gives the kids more opportunity to qualify. Make sure there are at least four tournaments per weekend in the four corners of the state with a fifth in Indianapolis.With 2100 kids at this weekends folkstyle state tournament, could the state of Indiana not come up with at a couple hundred kids for each venue to qualify?

In reality it seems this has hurt freestyle attendance in IN. The ISWA needs to see and understand this mistake and make it right. The old qualifying rule was much better. Why the hell would a kid have to qualify in freestyle and not folkstyle??? Just plain foolish and hurting the wrestling community at the same time. The ISWA has made some good moves recently, this is not one of them. We could bite the bullet and quality at one tournament but to spend the $$ to travel to another then do it again for FS State is basically holding interested wrestlers and their parents hostage. Im not wild about the boycott thing but in this situation it might be absolutely called for, and the right way to show your displeasure.

How about if you place the previous year it is an automatic qualifier.

I don't see why you need to have State before Central Regionals...according to all the documentation i found on https://usawevents.sportngin.com/page/show/1019235-central-regional-championships there is no qualification necessary.  
 
As for the Schoolboy Duals team you could host a wrestle off much like what they do with the Heartland Duals. Ryan Parrish has done an amazing job with that system. 
 
I think again the main failure here is the lack of communicating with the customers (wrestlers and their parents). Board members are on this forum and see what is said, the argument of "go to a meeting to explain your issues" is just simply dated at this point. We live in a world where constructive dialog can be had with people from all over the state and world the problem is if people are not willing to have that dialog we end up in the state we are in now and people are shaky about the decisions being made.
 
The VOLUNTEERS at the ISWA do a great job and I do believe they have the best of intentions but there is definitely an evolution that could happen to truly help elevate the state to the next level and help mend this clear rift that is forming between it and the wrestler/parents. 
 
In the end I hope we can continue to grow and improve.
 
These are just my observations. Could be right could be wrong but nothing hurts discussing them.

Since there is a 2 tournament requirement shouldn't ISWA also require that atleast 1 tournament is available every weekend during this time?  We had the first 2 weekends set aside for the qualifiers, but now the 2nd weekend doesn't offer us a tournament.  When we decided to do Columbia City and Penn I then made a commitment to Indiana Outlaws to wrestle with them in the Viper Pit duals, which I will not break a commitment we already made.  Bailey has given my family a lot of wrestling opportunities and we won't leave them high and dry.  Plus my kid is really excited to wrestle on the same team as Hughes, BAM, Cummings, Parris, and Rypel(just a few I heard are wrestling on the team). I would be happy to donate money to Hanover or Penn if that would count. 
 
It is not about believing my kid is too good for local FS tournaments, it is whether or not the 6-10 matches against the nations best is better then the FS matches we will get. 

This is a perfect solution.  We aren't asking for a waiver or exemption bc we are doing something other then wrestling.  As I said before we were prepared to skip FloNationals to wrestle at Penn's freestyle tournament, but now there is not a freestyle tournament offered anywhere in Indiana that weekend. Penn moving their tournament to april 30th is going to hurt their attendance bc all the region kids that would have wrestled in it will be going to Hanover's freestyle tournament. 
 
GrecoCoach stated that me bringing this up is getting old, but I don't think I am doing enough.  My son has worked his butt off to make these ISWA dual teams as well as prepare himself for USA Nationals and Ohio TOC.  My kid loves to wrestle and because he wrestles every weekend he will not be able to compete at freestyle state, it just doesn't make sense.  He doesn't play baseball or football he wrestles and these next few weeks are some of the best wrestling weekends in the nation and I will not sacrifice him getting these amazing opportunities just to qualify for state.  I feel bad for him because now he won't be able to represent Indiana in the schoolboy duals, but I don't see any other way to get the qualifiers in. So please ISWA board members look into helping the kids that are wrestling every weekend get an exemption into your state tournament.

This is a perfect solution.  We aren't asking for a waiver or exemption bc we are doing something other then wrestling.  As I said before we were prepared to skip FloNationals to wrestle at Penn's freestyle tournament, but now there is not a freestyle tournament offered anywhere in Indiana that weekend. Penn moving their tournament to april 30th is going to hurt their attendance bc all the region kids that would have wrestled in it will be going to Hanover's freestyle tournament. 
 
GrecoCoach stated that me bringing this up is getting old, but I don't think I am doing enough.  My son has worked his butt off to make these ISWA dual teams as well as prepare himself for USA Nationals and Ohio TOC.  My kid loves to wrestle and because he wrestles every weekend he will not be able to compete at freestyle state, it just doesn't make sense.  He doesn't play baseball or football he wrestles and these next few weeks are some of the best wrestling weekends in the nation and I will not sacrifice him getting these amazing opportunities just to qualify for state.  I feel bad for him because now he won't be able to represent Indiana in the schoolboy duals, but I don't see any other way to get the qualifiers in. So please ISWA board members look into helping the kids that are wrestling every weekend get an exemption into your state tournament.

Everyone here is interested in continuously improving the quality of Indiana wrestling.
The ISWA board members, coaches, parents, volunteers, family...we all witness the blood, sweat and tears poured into this sport.
Who doesn't  support our youth wrestlers?
Why make any top tier youth wrestler that qualifies for an ISWA team, choose between the tournament they just qualified or a mandatory local F/S G/R tournament?
No special treatment for any one kid.
One criteria: Any kid that makes any ISWA dual team, they have an exemption for that weekend since they are wrestling for the state team.
Any complaints? Well show up and make a team and you will get an exemption.
Win-Win.
You want the best true Triple Crown Winners?
Make sure your are not forcing an Indiana Team member to pick and choose tournaments.
Any parent will do whatever is best for their kid.

I think it is about the limited weekends in April to qualify for Indiana FS/GR when you are in Iowa battling the toughest competition available for Team Indiana, earned by ISWA Heartland Duals wrestle off winners and Middle School State Champions.
 
These kids would not break a sweat qualifying in the local F/S and G/R tournaments.
 
We are talking about future Fargo All Americans and Champs.

Sorry just seen this after posting in youth wrestling.
Here is my post from over there.
 
 
 
-----------------------------------------------
 
Compromise over Boycott. Here is a solution. I challenge the ISWA Board to vote on this:
 
Any wrestler who is on any ISWA team going to National Middle Schools duals and/or Heartland duals should have an automatic exemption for one Freestyle qualifier per ISWA team event.
This makes sense if any freestyle qualifier is held on the same weekend as the ISWA dual team tournaments.
The wrestler parents are already supporting the ISWA by spending hundreds of dollars on the out of state tournaments.
If their kid is doing both, over a thousand dollars when counting all travel expenses.
Note that I stated exemptions not waivers.
I do not think little Johnny should get a waiver because he had a baseball game.
This is all about wrestling.
I like freestyle way better than folkstyle, but during the month of April, that is the prime month to seek out top competition for the younger wrestlers who are not Cadets or Juniors. Do not penalize these kids because Freesyle and Greco States are in May.
Most of these kids on these teams do not know off seasons and wrestle year around. They are at the Academy or Club training Freestyle and Greco. They already are training all styles for years to be ready for Fargo when they become Cadets and Juniors. They are the future of Indiana wrestling.
Do not preach to the choir. We want the same thing. Making Indiana wrestling better and better.

Well I am back on the boycott freestyle state bandwagon after just wasting $40 on the Iron Eagle Columbia City tournament.  I went to sign up for Penn's freestyle tournament on March 26th, but could not because they moved it to April 30th.  FYI there are no other freestyle tournaments offered on the weekend of March 26th in Indiana.  So we are giving 7 weekends to wrestle in 2 freestyle tournaments, but only 6 weekends offer tournaments.  Now throw in 3 very expensive tournaments that are all supported by ISWA(National middle school duals, Heartland Duals, and USA Nationals) and you are down to 3 weekends.  Out of those weekends one is Ohio TOC which is probably a better tournament then USA Nationals and Viper Pit Dual(Indiana is the defending champion).  That leaves us with 1 weekend(Iron eagle), which I will just skip instead of paying for 2 nights of hotels and food.  Thanks again ISWA.

On the eve of the Heartland Dual tryouts I would like to talk about the 2013 team that Indiana sent there.  I hope by doing this those that are on the fence about trying out decide to come.  The competition is amazing and competing on this team correlates to success in the future.
 
2013 3rd place team
50-Tyson Lane (moved to Florida, several ISWA state titles)
55-Nicolas Castelluccio (ISWA state champ)
60-Jesse Mendez (middle school state champ)
65-Raymond Rioux (several ISWA titles, freshman next year)
70-Trey Lane (106lb Florida state champ as a freshman)
75-Asa Garcia (106lb state champ as a freshman)
80-Jake Schoenegge (semi state qualifier at 113 losing in ticket round to eventual state placer)
85-Johnny Parker (several time ISWA state champ)
90-Peyton Pruett (113lb semi state qualifier)
95-Nathan Conley (132lb state qualifier)
100-Tucker Coffman (145 semi state qualifier)
105-Carson Brewer (Middle school state champ, injured freshman year of high school)
112-Brooks Wathen (138 state qualifier)
120-Eli Pokorney (170lb semi state qualifier)
130-Alex Hirschfield (152lb regional qualifier in Illinois which is their version of our semi state)
140-Andrew Irick (middle school state champ)
160-Franklin Hammond (11-3 his freshman year)
This team beat Illinois gold for 3rd place, only losing one dual to Ohio grapplers.
 
So lets make sure we get the best kids our state has to offer at the tryouts tomorrow.  Go to www.iswa.com for more info.

On the eve of the Heartland Dual tryouts I would like to talk about the 2013 team that Indiana sent there.  I hope by doing this those that are on the fence about trying out decide to come.  The competition is amazing and competing on this team correlates to success in the future.
 
2013 3rd place team
50-Tyson Lane (moved to Florida, several ISWA state titles)
55-Nicolas Castelluccio (ISWA state champ)
60-Jesse Mendez (middle school state champ)
65-Raymond Rioux (several ISWA titles, freshman next year)
70-Trey Lane (106lb Florida state champ as a freshman)
75-Asa Garcia (106lb state champ as a freshman)
80-Jake Schoenegge (semi state qualifier at 113 losing in ticket round to eventual state placer)
85-Johnny Parker (several time ISWA state champ)
90-Peyton Pruett (113lb semi state qualifier)
95-Nathan Conley (132lb state qualifier)
100-Tucker Coffman (145 semi state qualifier)
105-Carson Brewer (Middle school state champ, injured freshman year of high school)
112-Brooks Wathen (138 state qualifier)
120-Eli Pokorney (170lb semi state qualifier)
130-Alex Hirschfield (152lb regional qualifier in Illinois which is their version of our semi state)
140-Andrew Irick (middle school state champ)
160-Franklin Hammond (11-3 his freshman year)
This team beat Illinois gold for 3rd place, only losing one dual to Ohio grapplers.
 
So lets make sure we get the best kids our state has to offer at the tryouts tomorrow.  Go to www.iswa.com for more info.

A big thanks to everybody who showed up today to try out, there was some great wrestling! Also thanks to all the volunteers, Refs, Jason #TheLibrarian Miller, Ryan Parrish, Tina Tonte, Lauren Rioux and the Warren Central Wrestling staff who helped put this great tournament on!
 
Team Leader - Ryan Parrish
 
Team Indiana Gold Team:
 
50 - Nate Rioux
55 - Revin Dickman
60 - Parker Reynolds 
65 - Logan Miller
70 - Logan Frazier
75 - Evan Tilton 
80 - Cheaney Schoeff
85 - Jesse Mendez
90 - Matthew Koontz
95 - Zeke Seltzer
100 - Aaron Steenbeke
105 - Tyler Jones
112 - Devon Bell
120 - Gabe Sollars 
130 - Nate Lommock
160 - Leighton Jones
 
Head Coach Dustin Bentz, Asst. Coach Ryan Parrish
 
Team Indiana Silver Team:
 
50 - Case Bell
55 - Ayden Bollinger
60 - Seth Syra
65 - Leighton Ramsey
70 - Braxton Vest
75 - Cash Turner
80 - Sam Goin
85 - Ashton Hayhurst
90 - Brody Baumann
95 - Drake Buchanan
100 - John Purdy
105 - Aiden Farmer
112 - Orlando Cruz
120 - Christian Carroll
130 - Seth Willems
160 - Lane Fowler
 
Head Coach Dane Maurer, Asst. Coach Matt Clark 

I have been around for a while. I can honestly say that this will be the best trip that you can take your kids on. I would love to see an Indiana team better our finish in 2013. The venue is second to none. The hotels, restaurants, and casino are all within walking distance to the venue. TRYOUT!!!!!!

On the eve of the Heartland Dual tryouts I would like to talk about the 2013 team that Indiana sent there.  I hope by doing this those that are on the fence about trying out decide to come.  The competition is amazing and competing on this team correlates to success in the future.
 
2013 3rd place team
50-Tyson Lane (moved to Florida, several ISWA state titles)
55-Nicolas Castelluccio (ISWA state champ)
60-Jesse Mendez (middle school state champ)
65-Raymond Rioux (several ISWA titles, freshman next year)
70-Trey Lane (106lb Florida state champ as a freshman)
75-Asa Garcia (106lb state champ as a freshman)
80-Jake Schoenegge (semi state qualifier at 113 losing in ticket round to eventual state placer)
85-Johnny Parker (several time ISWA state champ)
90-Peyton Pruett (113lb semi state qualifier)
95-Nathan Conley (132lb state qualifier)
100-Tucker Coffman (145 semi state qualifier)
105-Carson Brewer (Middle school state champ, injured freshman year of high school)
112-Brooks Wathen (138 state qualifier)
120-Eli Pokorney (170lb semi state qualifier)
130-Alex Hirschfield (152lb regional qualifier in Illinois which is their version of our semi state)
140-Andrew Irick (middle school state champ)
160-Franklin Hammond (11-3 his freshman year)
This team beat Illinois gold for 3rd place, only losing one dual to Ohio grapplers.
 
So lets make sure we get the best kids our state has to offer at the tryouts tomorrow.  Go to www.iswa.com for more info.

We train freestyle we just don't want to be forced to wrestle in local freestyle tournaments, how is that hard to understand? I promise you that 3 matches in these local tournaments will be less then 2 minutes.  RWA trains freestyle and it is more then enough training to compete and win a USA national freestyle title.  Indiana state is also not required to compete in the central regional, which is the only requirement to wrestle in the national tournament.  So again I say feel free to skip state.  We won't bc we want to wrestle in schoolboy duals, but if teams were hand picked we would definitely just skip this.  I hate being forced to do something.  Don't underestimate the talent in Indiana.  If we want to compete in bigger events opposed to local freestyle tournaments I feel like it should be our decision to do so.

Coach Hull you bring up some valid points.  I think some of the issue for some of us still, is the waver system and how everything went down last year.  I made this same statement last year......It is hard to take a program or group of kids that were used to not having to qualify and making them out of the blue! Yes, I know it was on the ISWA website, which most of us must not visit enough because there were a lot of people that didn't know about it. After months of back and forth nothing changed, than BAM wavers everywhere! 
 
You are in a tough spot, some of which you put yourself into.  I love freestyle and wish it was the only thing done after ISHAA State, but it is not.  There are several Folkstyle tournaments out there over the summer that will give Indiana kids chances to wrestle with the nations best.  Wrestling great competition makes you better, I don't think this is arguable. So, how do I tell my better kids to have faith with your proposal.  Tell them wrestling kids that they can beat in 10-15 seconds in 3 matches is better for the sport down the road.  But the trade off is that they have to waste their wrestling chances at these Folkstyle tournaments that will improve them.
 
I went through the Freestyle State logs from 2014 - 2015. The main thing I saw between the 2 years was that there were 12-15 upper place winners out of cadet that didn't come back in 2015.  Not a great look at improving the sport, if you are having to replace or rebuild each year.  I still think there could have been more done last year to save things, like excluding/wavering placers from the year before.  But true to form ISWA is hard fast in making and proving points over compromise.
 
I hope I didn't come across as to brash or pushy, just stating facts as they have gone down over the last few years.

@Sig40 -
 
Yes, we train in freestyle.  Just not enough.  Here is the issue: Not enough kids are at the local tournaments because they don't want to wrestle 3 matches. There is not enough competition. I absolutely get it and would struggle with the same thing as a wrestler and parent. It irks me and I'm neither, but as one of Indiana's National Team Coaches who pushes these styles it sucks equally as much if not more. So, this consequently leads to not enough schools offering freestyle tournaments because there aren't enough participants. They essentially lose money on freestyle tournaments.  Now, you don't have enough participants OR tournaments. It's a catch 22.  
 
The reason why the 2 match requirement is such an inconvenience for wrestling families is because it conflicts with bigger, oftentimes national folkstyle, events and there aren't too many other local freestyle tournaments or weekends to choose from. That's a problem.  Right now, in Indiana, our F/G season is essentially 2 months long, but with USAW Folkstyle Nationals, it's basically 1 month. 1 MONTH!!!!  That is a shame, and it's unacceptable IF we want to consistently beat the top 5% in the country.  12 months out of the year and we only REALLY get after these styles for one month but expect to be in the top 5%?  Not possible where Indiana is right now.  Oklahoma, Illinois, etc etc.  The states that focus on Freestyle and Greco do so almost immediately.  Colorado is perfect example.  Those kids have gotten better and better over the years because they made some tough decisions to focus on F/G and it's changing the culture and their results.  Arizona is another state in that same boat.
 
With all due respect to RWA, Tsirtsis, Hawkins, etc. their last national cadet or junior freestyle champ was maybe Micic?  i could be wrong but he focuses on what?  Ask Stevan if he thinks training in freestyle helps him more or going to a folkstyle tournament.  Can RWA offer the training needed to win a title?  Yes, and it's been proven on multiple occasions.  What then do we do for the rest of the state?.  RWA helps the RWA kids, but again the ISWA has to focus on the entire state.  
 
Requiring a 2 tournament qualifier helps schools have confidence in hosting more freestyle tournaments and raise funds, it helps the wrestlers have more competition, etc.  Is it an invonvenience because one doesn't like being MADE to do something, and I get it. I really do.  Kids and coaches don't necessarily like certifying for a weight, or taking the skin fold test to determine what weight they can or cannot go, knowing they could cut the weight, but it's done for the safety of the kids.  When they first started doing that it was a MASSIVE inconvenience, especially for older coaches used to running their program a certain way.  But times change, along with priorities, more and more people are getting used to it and it now comes with the territory.  That is exactly the stage we are in as a state in regards to F/G. 
 
Lastly, trust I am not underestimating the talent in Indiana.   Indiana has a lot of talent....but talent has nothing to do with. I am there first hand, mat side, seeing us get whooped consistently, seeing kids fall short of their hopes, not because they didnt wrestle tough, but because they were outclassed.  And understand I am talking about Indiana vs. the top 5% in the country, not just national competition.  There is talent in Maine but talent alone doesnt get you very far.  One must build on that talent.  I am talented at playing chess but if I am missing pieces then there is only so much I can do, regardless of how good I am.
 
I respect your thoughts and believe I understand what you are trying to say:  you don't like being made to do something it sounds like is the bottom line.  But what you are also proposing is to go wrestle folkstyle tournaments nationally, and then your FIRST freestyle tournament is the Schoolboy Duals against national competition - and expect perform at your maximum level?  I don't believe that is the best formula for national success again the BEST.  Could your wrestler go undefeated at Schoolboys? Absolutely.  But to expect that same success using your proposed formula against the top Cadets and Juniors is false.  Still, like you said, it is absolutely your decision and that's fair.  But when said wrestler maxes out that potential and is having trouble against the best Cadet and Juniors in the country, when it REALLY counts, understand this is when their lack of training in the international styles shows it's face.  
 
I hope I am not coming across brash or pushy, and I do not intend in anyway to belittle anyone or anything.  I am glad we are having this discussion and Indiana wrestling is reading this.  This discourse is what helps us all.  Knowing is half the battle (in my G.I.Joe voice).  Again, I am not referring to Indiana having national success, I am referring to Indiana having success against the top 5% in the country - consistently.  

I am a PA resident and have been to the Indiana state wrestling finals for the last 5 years. I like the fact that there are not separate classes.
However, the way the tournament is run with no wrestle backs until Saturday is a slap in the face to the 8 wrestlers who lost on Friday night.
I watched this year alone, a bunch of top ranked wrestlers loose a tough match on Friday and they were done. This is just down grading to a wrestler who has worked his tail off to get to this point. It does not give you your true placing.
With the blind draw you could end up with the top 2 wrestlers in the weight class on the same side of the bracket and meet before the finals and then one of them can only finish as good as fifth. No way is that fair to these young wrestlers.
If Red and Lee happened to be on the same side of the bracket, that great finals match would never have happened.  Lee could of only then finished fifth.
Do you think that is fair?  No way.  Wrestle backs should be a part of these Brackets and the wrestlers should be seeded and placed in the brackets accordingly.  This is the only way you will get your true top 8 wrestlers in the end.
It is just an in justice to these guys who have worked so, so hard to get to this point to be denied a true placing because of one loss. 
This really needs to be looked at and corrected. I talked to so many people at the state finals that expressed the same thoughts that I have.
All the coaches need to all get together and take this to the IHSAA board and get this changed!! 
Come on man!! Give these wrestlers what they deserve.

We train freestyle we just don't want to be forced to wrestle in local freestyle tournaments, how is that hard to understand? I promise you that 3 matches in these local tournaments will be less then 2 minutes.  RWA trains freestyle and it is more then enough training to compete and win a USA national freestyle title.  Indiana state is also not required to compete in the central regional, which is the only requirement to wrestle in the national tournament.  So again I say feel free to skip state.  We won't bc we want to wrestle in schoolboy duals, but if teams were hand picked we would definitely just skip this.  I hate being forced to do something.  Don't underestimate the talent in Indiana.  If we want to compete in bigger events opposed to local freestyle tournaments I feel like it should be our decision to do so.

Alex tsirtsis. Most dominance high school wrestler I ever saw

Jason Tsirtsis. The guy was a 4xer, unanimous national #1 his senior year, and handled NCAA champion Caldwell before even graduating high school.

#TheCounty is starting to sound more like #TheKanye