WadeDuPont

There have been a ton of interesting topics and threads about the subjects listed in my title...every year they come up.  We are a very passionate group and I think we all agree that wrestling needs to grow.  From my little perch in Rochester, Indiana here is my 2 cents...which my step-dad always used to say "Wouldn't buy me a cheap cup of coffee"...so take it as you will.
1. I am a class supporter...both individual and team.  I don't think it will solve every problem but I do believe, in my heart, it will affect the numbers of our sport and more kids will participate and benefit from wrestling.  Yes basketball is classed and viewing numbers have dropped BUT, at Rochester, basketball still has a full varsity, a full JV, and a full freshman team.  People may not attend as much as they used to, but kids are still playing.  No offense to our basketball coaches, but we aren't very good and about 5-6 of those kids should really be wrestling.  I believe that those individuals wrestling in a state championship tournament from a Class 1A or 2A school, will bring notoriety to their school, be talked to by college coaches, and ultimately attract kids to give it a shot...especially at the younger levels.
2. We are fighting a bigger battle than class wrestling and that is a societal change from our youth programs to the HS Seniors.  I love kids, love teaching them, and love coaching them...but the fact is there aren't has many kids to choose from now days that are willing to do what you have to do to just be on the team.  I'm not talking about wrestling varsity.  I'm talking about just being on the team. Very few young men want to endure the physicality of wrestling to wrestle JV.  Kids are used to getting it now or hitting the "reset" button and being able to start over when they lose.  Wrestling requires a ton of work to get what one wants.  Kids don't want to do the work and wait around for 2-3 years to earn their spot...they especially don't want to wrestle year round to have to earn it.  While I don't understand that way of thinking, I do recognize it as an issue.
3.  I'm going to get crucified for this...We, coaches and lovers of wrestling, have done a really bad job of making our sport fun, marketable, and fan/family friendly to the masses.  I include myself in that as well.  
We wrestle too many all day super duals, two-day 10 ways, and too many matches.  At Rochester, we have adjusted our schedule to make it more marketable to kids, families, and fans.  This year it helped with attendance and numbers.  We had a dual with Northwestern and brought in our elementary and MS teams to wrestle before the HS dual.  Had a DJ and spotlights...each kid had their own walk-out song.  Nothing but positive feedback.  We also took some long Saturday's off of our schedule and put in some week night Quads so kids could have their weekend back. That was a hit with parents.  HS season is long...even longer for the elite kids that go year round.  Can you imagine how long it is for those kids with a .500 or losing record wrestling every Saturday and going 0-5, 1-4, 2-3 and maybe earning 1-2 wins or getting forfeits? How many more youth events can we host in a year...especially in Folkstyle?  We got HYWAY, ISWA (From November to April), Elementary Friendship meets, etc.  Yep, I'm guilty as a Coach and a Dad...we take advantage of it. But that doesn't make me right.  I started wrestling at 14. Wrestled the HS Season, went to Freestyle and wrestled as much as I could, but it was over in April. Nothing from May to November unless you made a Fargo team.  Now there is something EVERY single month of the year to choose from.  We want kids to be kids and play other sports but there is something for wrestling EVERY.SINGLE.MONTH.  We don't stop.  The argument is, and it's valid, the family or coach has to choose and know when to back off.  An argument to the argument, and it's valid, is that if it's not available then the family or coach doesn't feel like they need to do it.  Our kids also don't feel like they have to choose.  I'm NOT advocating that we throw the baby out with the bath water, but coaches and our associations should take a look at how we can retain kids, give them experience, and not have an event EVERY.SINGLE.MONTH!! 4.  Bring back the Freestyle and Greco season after the IHSAA State Tournament.  If the ISWA won't give up Folkstyle State, then at least look at a different date.  HS kids don't have to be included in that.  They just wrestled an entire season of folkstyle.  Once IHSAA State ends, have 3 weeks off with no tournaments.  RTC's open all over Indiana and train exclusively in FS and Greco.  Starting in Mid-March, have 5 tournaments on a Saturday or Sunday.  One in the North, South, East, West, and Central for 2 consecutive weeks.  Then 2 weeks of training.  First week within in your RTC, then the second bring 2-3 RTC's together to train.  1 week of tournaments...same as before.  Then the State Tournament.  Be done in April instead of May.  I'm sure this would need tweaking and my weeks might be off...but the idea has merit.
5.  This kind of goes along with #3 and all of the folkstyle events for our youth, but I believe we need a true youth season.  I'd like to see us go November Practice, December Compete, and have Folkstyle State the same weekend as the ISWA Elementary Duals and then be done with Folkstyle.  Janauary...OFF...no wrestling.  Start them training in FS and Greco in February, no tournaments. Tournaments start in Mid-March and go to Freestyle State in April.  This stuff of going November - December with duals, wrestling state duals over break, then coming right back to the "individual" season from January to March, then freestyle (for those that can't control themselves and just have to do it :)) from March to May...it's kind of ridiculous.  We tell our kids that they shouldn't play tackle football year round, we tell our baseball players that they really can't throw year round...but we have kids at 8-9 years old wrestling from October (most practices start) to May.  Before you tear me up...just think about that...from October to May.  Why is that ok for wrestling but not ok for other sports?
I know there are arguments against my points and we have some kids that want to train all the time.  I get it.  If there would have been year round wrestling in Richmond, Indiana when I was 14, I would have done it.  I love it that much.  I would have hit the RTC's, the tournaments, everything.  But I don't coach me and the majority of our kids and families can't afford to, don't have the time to, or just don't want to train/compete as much as the die hards do.  Do the kids who want to train/wrestle year round deserve the chance to do it, yep, and I'm sure we can all find a way for those killers to do that...heck they will anyway.  But as a group, wrestling can do better to attract and retain those kids and families that don't.  We have pretty much given the masses the ultimatum of either do this to be great or quit...unfortunately I think too many quit.
Side note: This doesn't include summer camps, academies, and off season open mats.
Just my 2 cents...
Ready...GO!

Maybe the drop in attendance is due to the fact that there is a lot more to do in 2017 than there was in 1984. People have more entertainment options. The same can be said for wrestling participation. In the 80's and 90's, kids joined high school sports teams because that was what you did. If you weren't varsity, you participated on the jv and were still part of a team. Now, if you aren't varsity, you have a lot of options (internet, video games, etc.) to occupy your time that doesn't include being someone's back up. In an instant gratification/5 second highlight society, this shouldn't be that difficult to understand.

Another under-appreciated fact is the decline of the small public school. The local high school used to be the apple of a small town's eye. Now it is often a town or two away, thus diluting a lot of the pride that existed "back in the day." Some of that pride is even replaced with resentment in some cases.

I have seen in many posted comments that say the IHSAA does it this way or that way, which makes me assume the committee is trying to get something the IHSAA would adopt. For Example the enrollment numbers for re-classification every two years.
If that is the case, why wouldn't the tournament success factor be in play as well?
Can some one please explain to the wrestling community what the end goal is and why we use the IHSAA as a model for some things and not others.
What exactly is the end goal?

Decbell....I am saying the information is available. I cannot imagine each school not knowing their enrollment annually.
Y2....I agree, what is that number.  In my mind, I am not sure why the cut off would not be seven wrestlers, which is what is needed to at least tie the match.
I think we have to quit comparing this tournament to the IHSAA, as I said earlier if we think they will take over a formula driven invite tournament we are mistaken. Until a tournament is developed that may be accepted by the IHSAA this format needs to be reviewed annually on how we can make this better. Standing pat leads to complacency which leads errors which leads to failure. Ways to improve should be discussed annually and changes that can be made to improve the tournament should be made annually.
Do people outside the IHWCA even know how the formula works? If I show up Sunday in New Castle, end up sitting by a father from let's say Cambridge City Lincoln, we have a wrestling discussion and he is feeling good about the direction of their program and I say to him do you think within the next few years when your son is in high school that your team has a chance to score enough points to qualify for team state at least once?
My bet is he gives me a blank look and has no idea what I am talking about.
Shouldn't the new fan, the new or novice parent have an understanding of just how his team can qualify?
 
 
 

Average Genius Sectional Score by SS
Evansville score NC score FW score ECC score   Avon 5 Lawrence Cent 5 Carroll 5 Lafayette Jeff 5   Bloomington  North 5 Elwood 5 Elk Memorial 5 Crown point 4   Mooresville 5 Frankfort 5 Jay  County 4 Griffith 4   Castle 4 Crawford 4 New haven 4 Laporte 4   Evansville  Cent 4 Franklin County 4 Oak hill 4 E Chicago 3   Jennings  County 4 Shelby 4 Peru 4 Mishawaka 3   Jeffersonville 3 Southport 3 Delta 3 Plymouth 3   Southridge 3 Tri 3 Westview 3 Twin Lakes 3     33   33   32   29                     Average Score 4.125   4.125   4   3.625  

I agree with the guy from Jay County. If you add the three closures to Tech or even half, it brings them to over 3000 students. Close Northwest, Broad Ripple, Arlington, Turkey Run & Rockville, then add Parke Heritage you end up with 302 schools. Cannot make assumptions on Shortridge or Attucks, but past precedence (Muncie) should be followed with Tech. This should divide you to 100 / 101 / 101 , which moves Jay to the 100 slot. However, EMD chooses to move up to 3A which then moves them to 100 and Jay to 101 and the move to 2A.
In my opinion due to the ridiculous difference in students from 1 to 100. I would like to see the IHSWCA consider adding another class, although the gap is still large, it makes sense.
Class 4A: 32 Teams - 8 Qualifiers
Class 3A, 2A & 1A: 90 Teams each - 12 Qualifiers
Is it along the same lines what IHSAA does with football? Yes. But the IHSWCA follows the IHSAA in regards to school reconfiguration every two years when the information is available to do so annually. Which even makes more sense as it seems we have closures and consolidations annually.

I agree with the guy from Jay County. If you add the three closures to Tech or even half, it brings them to over 3000 students. Close Northwest, Broad Ripple, Arlington, Turkey Run & Rockville, then add Parke Heritage you end up with 302 schools. Cannot make assumptions on Shortridge or Attucks, but past precedence (Muncie) should be followed with Tech. This should divide you to 100 / 101 / 101 , which moves Jay to the 100 slot. However, EMD chooses to move up to 3A which then moves them to 100 and Jay to 101 and the move to 2A.
In my opinion due to the ridiculous difference in students from 1 to 100. I would like to see the IHSWCA consider adding another class, although the gap is still large, it makes sense.
Class 4A: 32 Teams - 8 Qualifiers
Class 3A, 2A & 1A: 90 Teams each - 12 Qualifiers
Is it along the same lines what IHSAA does with football? Yes. But the IHSWCA follows the IHSAA in regards to school reconfiguration every two years when the information is available to do so annually. Which even makes more sense as it seems we have closures and consolidations annually.

With all of these special situations, why don’t you just use the new enrollment numbers for each school and reclassify?

Probably true, but also probably true that Washington also would add at least one wrestler and also add enough in attendance to move up from 1A to 2A. And it's also probable that at least one of the other IPS schools will add a team that will receive some of the wrestlers from current teams. I'm going to get some concrete answers on how IPS athletics are being handled before we make any final decisions on this. 

I even wonder sometimes if drawing them into "stars knocking off stars too early" isn't beating a dead horse. They have that in all of their other sports tournaments--which is what they insist on comparing us to.
I think instead there's an argument to be built that we're NOT being treated like other sports. All other sports have their tournaments conducted in the way states around the country conduct them and in the way their sport's culture dictates--except ours. We're the only ones forced to fit into a box that is completely disassociated from the rest of the season structure and the sport nationally.  
AND I think we can give examples of other individual sports that have similarities to ours that they don't realize; namely, track, swimming, and gymnastics. In those sports, at each tournament round, we have the best people all together in one space and we find the genuine best and advance them. That's how wrestling works. We never do a tennis-style single elimination tournament, from the youth ranks up through college. Instead, we get everyone in one space and spend a day figuring out the pecking order. It would be silly to get a bunch of swimmers together, randomly draw them into 4 heats, and say each heat winner gets to advance. We're all together at the same pool--let's go ahead and have some prelims and finals and pick the genuine best 4. Wrestling is the same, but they need to be invited to see it outside the "upsets happen" narrative or even the "my star lost too early in the tournament" argument....in my very humble opinion.

Here’s my opinion:
If we want wrestlebacks from the IHSAA, do NOT argue a kid gets caught or has a bad match.  They say we aren’t valuing the effort and performance of the kid had who pulled the upset.  
Focus on the ridiculous draws that puts two placers against each other.  At Mishawaka Joey Smith beats Trace Hall of SB Riley in triple OT I believe to win the Regional.  We had lost to him like 3 times that year.  Our reward is we draw into Galka of Hobart who had been injured precious week.  Hall places at state and we lose in ticket round 3-2.  
Even better one: Trent Reinoehl beats Young of CMA in OT to win regional.  Churchard of Valpo and Roach of Crown Point are In same regional. Our reward?  We draw roach in ticket round and lose 3-2.  Chrurchard gets first, roach 2nd and young 3rd at state while we sit in the stands.  
If we are ever going to get wrestlebacks, it’s my opinion that these situations must be focus.  Don’t even bring up someone getting caught.  IHSAA will use that against us. 
 
Snyder 

Cael doesn't have a chance, he never went to state in a no wrestle-back state.

Seen the same thing by a sixth grader at the Delta Folkstyle Open today. Was told it is illegal to turn with a bow and arrow, but was legal to secure the fall. Looked like sour grapes to me yesterday, I actually thought AC should have been deducted a team point as their coach was half way out on the mat.

I was impressed with Chapman getting the 3-1 decision over Friedt and avenging his loss from last years finals. 

Wasn’t a fan of the quick pin call in the finals. I think my biggest frustration was refs were taking forever to call pins all day and then they call that one very fast. 

Seen the same thing by a sixth grader at the Delta Folkstyle Open today. Was told it is illegal to turn with a bow and arrow, but was legal to secure the fall. Looked like sour grapes to me yesterday, I actually thought AC should have been deducted a team point as their coach was half way out on the mat.

Who knows AC fans boo any action called against their wrestler 
 
Just kidding, it's illegal

Seen the same thing by a sixth grader at the Delta Folkstyle Open today. Was told it is illegal to turn with a bow and arrow, but was legal to secure the fall. Looked like sour grapes to me yesterday, I actually thought AC should have been deducted a team point as their coach was half way out on the mat.

We should make it the Eli stock award and have him present it every year. 

Mine would be Mason Winner at #10, probably goes in as either a 1 or 2 from FW.

Caleb Oliver way down there at #13. Not familiar with his state series path but that's one that sticks out to me.

Homer pick... Conley 145. He’s an all-state caliber football player that made it all the way to semi state in football. So... got a late start. Each year, you see athletes that wrestle themselves into shape for a late season run. Kid is wrestling well when it counts.
Ranked 11th right now. 

I think they would do well to sell reserved seating, just like many other events.  You could have general admission for the seats on the upper levels, but (like suites) sell tickets or blocks of tickets for the lower level.  Then no more coats and seat saving...

When talking about sports there is a chain from good to bad some one has to be bad it's the way the world works