JayinSTL Posted February 12 Share Posted February 12 On 2/8/2024 at 9:25 PM, Disco said: It already has happened. In the 70’s there was no semi state. Regionals then state. There was also only 8 individuals per weight. And no wrestlebacks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DCHawks149 Posted February 12 Share Posted February 12 We just need to go back to three out of the regional then full wrestle backs after round one of the semi state. The day would most likely be shorter. Regional champs get bye and should not have to have death draws and fourths should not get easy draws and make it to state when they just get lucky. If you lose the first round you're done then the final 8 wrestle back. Not sure why this has not happened yet. Easy solution, just not as many people at the events, so that is a negative but makes the most sense. I can count quite a few fourths that didn't even show up for the new castle semi state. Some kids will be burned by regional third and fourth matches due to disparity in regional alignments but make those matches 2,2,2. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MatTime Posted February 12 Share Posted February 12 There were just too many terrible ticket round draws that pitted top kids against each other this year to not consider a wrestle back at semis. May v Gibbs, a shame. In my opinion Gibbs wrestles back and makes it to the state tourney if there was a wrestle back. After the blood round of Friday, there should also be a wrestleback at state. There can be the "get better at wrestling," "that's the draw," "has always been this way," but I don't think we can apply those sentiments to kids like Gibbs who grinds everyday and was ranked top three in the state. These early exits cost great athletes the chance to be multiple state placers. Could effect college recruitment and scholarships. The state tournament is supposed to reward the best athlete not eliminate the top kids prior to the state tournament. Several semi state early exits in the blood round is not "unfortunate," it is egregious and should be changed to get the best most consistent wrestlers throughout the season in the state finals. I find it hard to believe that Gibbs does not place at state in that bracket. However, the number 3 in the state does not get the opportunity to even try because there are no wrestle backs. A shame. blueandgold, KLH and AndyStJ 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Disco Posted February 12 Share Posted February 12 (edited) 2 hours ago, JayinSTL said: There was also only 8 individuals per weight. And no wrestlebacks As far as I can remember there never were wrestle backs, ever. As far as 8, guess there were 8 regionals. Then state. I wrestler advanced to state, from each weight class out of each regional. Edited February 12 by Disco Miss read Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Athenr Posted February 13 Share Posted February 13 As a spectator now....I think wrestle backs would take away some of the excitement of an underdog win! However....I understand the debate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wrestling Scholar Posted February 14 Share Posted February 14 10 hours ago, Athenr said: As a spectator now....I think wrestle backs would take away some of the excitement of an underdog win! However....I understand the debate. Why wouldnt underdog wins with wrestle backs be just as exciting? KLH, AndyStJ and blueandgold 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Champ98 Posted February 14 Share Posted February 14 As a person who was involved in one of the worst semi state brackets of all time (#1,2,3,4 ranked in state). 2x SChamp 1x S Champ 1x SChamp 1x S Runner Up the state format is fantastic with the exception of wrestle backs. You need to ensure you are giving the best of the best the chance to win it all and not base it off of not only 1 match but the draw u get because of a situation like this where #1 & #3 are in the same regional and the chance they draw #2 in the ticket round of semi state. KLH and AndyStJ 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BooBoo Bear Posted February 15 Share Posted February 15 My brother wrestled at State in 1984. There were partial wrestlebacks. Semi-Final losers had to wrestle quarterfinal losers of the guys who made it to the finals. Those winners got to go for 3rd/4th. Disco and KLH 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Disco Posted February 15 Share Posted February 15 38 minutes ago, BooBoo Bear said: My brother wrestled at State in 1984. There were partial wrestlebacks. Semi-Final losers had to wrestle quarterfinal losers of the guys who made it to the finals. Those winners got to go for 3rd/4th. When did that stop? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oldoriole71 Posted February 15 Share Posted February 15 Wrestlebacks have to be implemented imo. My senior year at semi state, we had 3 of the top 4 kids in the state in the Evansville bracket. It didn’t happen, but two of those kids were in the same regional, so it could’ve been a potential #3 vs #4 ranked wrestler in the ticket round KLH 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NavyGonzo Posted February 15 Share Posted February 15 7 hours ago, Disco said: When did that stop? I believe 1984 was the last year they did this. Other major changes that would drive people crazy if still in effect: From late 80's through 2002, the 5/6th place match participants were determined by the winner of the semi-finals matches. Example: You lose in quarter finals, and the wrestler you lost to loses then you wrestle for 7th, if he wins you wrestle for 5th. Through the early 90's, only the top 6 were placers, so back then you could win your first match and not be a placer based entirely on how the wrestler who beat you does in the semi-finals. Wrestle backs to 5th only took effect in 2002 - 2003 season. Basing this on the current strength of the Mooresville Regional. Prior to 2009, only the Top 3 from regional advanced to Semi-State with the winner getting a first round bye. I believe the first year this changed, we had a few state qualifiers who had gotten 4th place at regional, thus justifying the change. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maligned Posted February 15 Share Posted February 15 (edited) On 2/8/2024 at 2:54 PM, blueandgold said: People won’t admit it, but there is a lot of luck involved in the random pairing format. The fact that you can have a 1-3 record at the state finals and be considered top 8 in the state is kind of ridiculous. This is very true. A while back, I did 10 years of research of underclassmen at state and their results the following season. On average, the 8th placers with 1-3 records at state do no better in the following season than first round losers from their same bracket do the following season. Conversely, the 3-1 kids that place 5th do better the following season than the 2-2 wrestlers that place 4th. Semi-state uses the exact same structure, so we know that, on average, the best ticket round losers are better than the 4th placers we send to state. These are data-backed illustrations of everyone's point. Edited February 15 by maligned blueandgold and KLH 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Disco Posted February 15 Share Posted February 15 3 hours ago, NavyGonzo said: I believe 1984 was the last year they did this. Other major changes that would drive people crazy if still in effect: From late 80's through 2002, the 5/6th place match participants were determined by the winner of the semi-finals matches. Example: You lose in quarter finals, and the wrestler you lost to loses then you wrestle for 7th, if he wins you wrestle for 5th. Through the early 90's, only the top 6 were placers, so back then you could win your first match and not be a placer based entirely on how the wrestler who beat you does in the semi-finals. Wrestle backs to 5th only took effect in 2002 - 2003 season. Basing this on the current strength of the Mooresville Regional. Prior to 2009, only the Top 3 from regional advanced to Semi-State with the winner getting a first round bye. I believe the first year this changed, we had a few state qualifiers who had gotten 4th place at regional, thus justifying the change. I do recall this now. What a fiasco. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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