MatTime

I am torn as the three points at the high school level may not change the wrestling so much. Defensive wrestlers are still going to wait and try to capitalize on the active wrestler taking the risks to score three points. It will hopefully change the wrestling in the long term to focus on shooting. It will definitely create more separation between top tier wrestlers and those that are middling. Will not be able to wrestle defensively and expect to win against the top kids in the state. Maybe it pushes the middle kids to open up. Will be interesting to watch.

@Galagore My issue is with the argument that I am reading in support of why there should be class/division wrestling. Your argument, I am paraphrasing, is that there should be because small school athletes are not able to focus on one sport and should not be penalized because of this because they have to wrestle big school athletes that are able to be single sport athletes. You seem to also argue that class wrestling will not hurt big school athletes so why not adopt that system. My contention is that adopting your argument would water down the state series and is not a good enough argument for why we should adopt class wrestling in the state. Accepting your argument would mean giving athletes who have chosen to make wrestling a secondary sport (I think you say this in one of your posts) the opportunity to earn a medal. It would make the smaller class division champs meaningless in a sense. Wrestling in Indiana is unique in that there is one champion crowned in each weight class. One athlete that represents the most consistent, if not the best, wrestler in their weight throughout the state tournament series. I don't think any sport that has multiple champions can honestly say they are the best in the state. They simply could not know this without a tournament that puts all of the best teams against each other like wrestling does. I also take issue with the hypothetical of if every small school athlete only does one sport then that will be the end of wrestling in the state. Many schools do not offer swimming, golf, gymnastics, lacross, bowling, archery, etc., but these sports continue to exist in the state. Those that want to participate in these sports are very likely moving into schools that offer them or they are finding their own ways to excel at them through out of season practices and competitions on a national stage. I get wanting to give opportunities for kids to excel. But changing the system that crowns one state champion to one that create multiple, just for the sake athletes who choose to do multiple sports, in my opinion, is not a good enough justification or answer to the question that was posed. Perhaps we can talk about the impact it would have on transfers. If class wrestling/divisions were implemented would that lower the number of transfers that are occurring thereby strengthening small school program? Or, if we are going to make a meaningful change to the state tournament, wouldn't adopting wrestlebacks ensure that the most consistent wrestlers throughout the season get rewarded by being a placer?

They are when nationally ranked kids are wrestling. I believe Purdue sent a representative to the finals and I am almost certain our D2 school had someone there. The top wrestlers are being recruited regardless of coaches attending the tournament. Most of that is based on their national level performance and the buzz around the national rankings. Something the wrestlers will only get if they are wrestling all season and doing the offseason national tourneys.

Of course not. But is the small school athlete really doing everything they can when the best competitors in the state are going to multiple academy practices, getting privates, and seeking out the best competition at national tournaments during the offseason? If they are not, then why should they expect to be champions or state placers? Seems to be an issue with expectations. Train to be the best does not mean train only during the season. In my opinion, the purpose of high school athletics is to build skills, character, learn life lessons that sports teach us, and, at the highest competitive levels, prepare for college athletics. Each athlete chooses what they want out of the sports they choose to participate in. Someone made a comment about what the goal of the athlete is in the sport. If they plan to go to college on a athletic scholarship, then they are likely already one sport athletes. If they are looking to be a state placer at an individual sport, then they have to find a way to be competitive with those athletes who have higher goals. Nothing is given in the sport of wrestling. Just seems that the underlying desire for class wrestling is to lower the bar to allow for more athletes to reach success solely based on virtue of attending a small school. If the athlete at a small school has the goal of reaching the next level, then they have to choose to do the extra things that the top kids have been doing since they were young. If we adopt class wrestling and force the big schools into their own class, doesn't that make becoming a state placer/champion easier for small school wrestlers? This is the crux of the argument. Lets be honest.

Sorry, perhaps I misunderstood your post. I think at big schools it is way more likely to have athletes choose to focus on one sport. This is where I think there is an advantage, in a sense, at larger schools because the impact is not felt in other sports if a handful of kids decide to be single sport athletes. However, bigger school means way more competition for spots on teams. I am sure this contributes to athletes choosing one sport to focus on.

Then the need for class/division wrestling becomes less substantiated in this case. Why create a system that rewards part time individual sport participants? Our state system rewards the consistent wrestler who is dedicated to the sport. I imagine that only a few of the top wrestlers at each weight are competing in other sports. I don't think "class wrestling is needed to help multisport athletes get a chance at winning a title" is the argument that wins the day here.

You are advocating on behalf of your school's athletic department, not for your individual athlete. We can not blame the athletes and their family for making a different choice. I think you would be hard pressed to find any of our 14 champions saying they didn't have to make a sacrifice to earn their title. This seems like the classic "have your cake and eat it too" situation. You want to win an individual state title but you also want to participate in other sports. You do not want to have to choose between focusing on being good at a single individual sport or playing other team sports. So instead of class/divisional wrestling, perhaps the policy should be all individual athlete's need to participate in at least one other sport in order to compete at the state series. Would that alleviate the decision making for the wrestler at a small school? Would that bring the parity that is being asked for? It is a choice.

This is a choice you are making. Your son participates in multiple sports for his school. That is great. But it is a choice you are making. I don't see a difference in athletes in either case. We can't blame the wrestler at any school for focusing on one sport while another athlete is making a choice to participate in several sports. Is this a loyalty issue then? Loyalty/pressure for the athlete to do multiple sports because they go to a smaller school? If they want to be multisport athletes, awesome, but the trade-off will likely be not reaching the level of performance that the athletes that focus on a single sport may achieve. There are always exceptions. I wonder if Weaver from Rosseville only focused on wrestling.... That is a small school and his size would have been welcomed in many other sports. But did he choose to focus on wrestling in order to become a champ and prepare for the college level?

I get what you are saying. However, this does not take into consideration the trade-off it takes to get better. Those that are wrestling year round are giving up something. Seems like your argument is that there should be class/division wrestling so that smaller school athletes do not have to make a choice between wrestling or the other sports. If an athlete wants to focus on one sport, they will sacrifice the same way the wrestlers at bigger schools do.

A lot of matches happen again at ISWA state due to it being a qualifier for Fargo. Different style but still has rematch-esque implications. It is hard to win in this state. I understand the want to give more opportunities for more champions. Not having a room full of partners that create the environment to create champs is tough. But I think our HS coaches are good and bring in wrestlers for their contenders to get better. The coaches are encouraging their wrestlers to get offseason work in and to seek out competition out of state. The academies are having a huge effect on the quality of wrestling. There are programs that are going to be stacked with talent coming up in the next few seasons. Be wary of Indiana Creek, New Pal, and Noblesville. I think their is a struggle at the lower weights to get quality partners, but many schools are doing well at the higher weights. Several schools had their first champs or first placers in the last tourney. Not impossible. I wonder if the issue is less about class/division wrestling and more about wanting parity in the numbers of placers and champs.

Can you explain the comment about bias with Heartland Duals? Curious.

However, schools like Brownsburg and Center Grove have several really good national level team sports. If the wrestling athletes went to schools that were not consistently competing for state or on the national ranking lists in other team sports, they would likely be multi-sport athletes. Just another thing to consider before transferring....

yes

Hockaday's phyicality, the way he opens up in matches, and takes what his opponent is giving is what separates him. Like he said in his post match interview, he is training for national titles, the State tourney is just live practice for him. I suspect Thrine will win at least one more title if not get the next two. But this match showed how far apart they are at the moment. I would bet that Hockaday will be the newest 4xmer next season.

While I think it is unfortunate that they could see each other outside of the finals, I can't wait to see this match. If they both make it far enough to see each other, that is.

I prefer the 1st period stall calls. Presumably early stalls should increase the action later in the match. Wrestling the edge is a technique used by several kids as they simply can "get forced out by action" and not give up points. Should have way more stalls against edge wrestlers in my opinion.

There were just too many terrible ticket round draws that pitted top kids against each other this year to not consider a wrestle back at semis. May v Gibbs, a shame. In my opinion Gibbs wrestles back and makes it to the state tourney if there was a wrestle back. After the blood round of Friday, there should also be a wrestleback at state. There can be the "get better at wrestling," "that's the draw," "has always been this way," but I don't think we can apply those sentiments to kids like Gibbs who grinds everyday and was ranked top three in the state. These early exits cost great athletes the chance to be multiple state placers. Could effect college recruitment and scholarships. The state tournament is supposed to reward the best athlete not eliminate the top kids prior to the state tournament. Several semi state early exits in the blood round is not "unfortunate," it is egregious and should be changed to get the best most consistent wrestlers throughout the season in the state finals. I find it hard to believe that Gibbs does not place at state in that bracket. However, the number 3 in the state does not get the opportunity to even try because there are no wrestle backs. A shame.

Interesting. Would be nice if the state champs were on opposite sides. They should be seeded 1 and 2 so as to not face each other until finals. How does seeding work currently? Semi-State champs separated and everyone else blind draw?

Verduzco was my standout. Winning a bracket that has three pound for pound ranked kids in it is incredibly impressive. More so than walking through a bracket of unranked kids. Going through very talented Zuranski, Dowty, Rosenbarger, and Malone...winning that bracket is an accomplishment. Was a fun bracket to watch. Will be fun to watch those athletes at the high school level.

Agreed. Thrine seemed undersized when wrestling Davis. If Davis does not cut him with 40 seconds, what would overtime have looked like? The size and strenght of Davis slowed Thrine down. Will not be a close match between Thrine and Hockaday....that is, if Thrine makes it to see him. Good wrestler and will continue to grown and improve but is not going to defeat Hockaday.

How the Ranked Athletes Did at MS State: 1. Case Bell - DNC (2x Champ) 2. MJ Staples - DNC (won a qualifer but did not compete) 3. Caesar Salas - DNC (2x Champ) 4. Jeremy Carver - Champion at 95 (2x Champ) 5. Tate St. Laurent - 6th at 100 (forfeited 5th/6th match after losses to UR athletes) 6. Case Bridge - DNC 7. Connor Maddox - DNP - Medical Forfeit after 3rd round loss to UR athlete 8. Colin Strayer - Champion at 120 (2x Champ) 9. Kamron Hazelett - DNC (qualified but did not compete) 10. Traevon Ducking - 2nd at 106 (Lost to #20) 11. Lincoln Hinchman - Champion at 132 12. Anthony Zuranski - 2nd at 113 (Lost to #17) 13. Colton Wiseman - Champion at 70 (2x Champ) 14. Alex Huddleston - DNC (2x Champ) 15. Patrick Dowty - 5th at 113 (Losses to #17 and UR Malone) 16. Dallas Rosenbarger - 3rd at 113 (Loss to #12) 17. Noel Verduzco - Champion at 113 (2x Champ) 18. Spenser McCammon - DNC 19. Zavier Acuna - DNC 20. Daniel Brown - Champion at 106 21. Bo Jackson - 2nd at 132 (Loss to #11) 22. Sebastion Garcia - Champion at 100 23. Haedyn Cochran - Champion at 80 (2x Champ) 24. Cameron Schofield - 4th at 90 (Losses to UR athletes) 25. Xavier Flores - DNP at 120 (Losses to UR athletes) How the Honorable Mentions Did: Nicolas Freeze - 7th at 100 (Loss to #5 and UR athletes) Gavin Brown - 6th at 126 Lincoln Underwood - Champion at 126 William Grafton Hodgett - 3rd at 106 (Loss to #10) Ethan Alvarez - DNP (Loss to UR Freeze) Kolten Land - DNC Marcus Malone - 4th - 113 (Losses to #16 twice) Elias Faith - DNC Deacon Gibbs - 2nd at 85 Aiden Gooney - DNC Some take aways: -Ryan Hockaday should be listed in the rankings; his only loss was to the now 2x champ Strayer in a 6-3 decision. -Lincoln Underwood should probably be elevated to the rankings as he is a MS champion -There are no representations in the rankings from the following weight classes: 138, 144, 150, 157, 165, 175, 190, 285, begging the questions of whether these classes are toss ups among the top few athletes or if the athletes are just not known well enough? -113 looked to be the most hotly contested due to having the most ranked athletes competing for the title -Cambden Hook, 2nd at 100, should be an honorable mention; decision over #5, loss to #22

Could the pin system ever be used to decide these things? Something that is more transparent then the formulas that are being used currently? Would be more objective.

Can not have a rule of MUST then have a loophole of $1 coaching staff to qualify someone as an employee that allows enrollment for kids outside of the district. It is a contradiction. And it is happening. But it is also allowed when noone regulates it so, good for those that are operating within the rules that are currently in place. Let's not ignore that it is happening and contributes to the concentration of talent in a few programs.

Not sure transferring totally falls under the IHSAA. That is a DOE issue. Pretty sure the rule is that as long as a family can provide transportation, they have open enrollment and choice of schools to attend. However, IHSAA makes it easier by not regulating or simply ignoring the $1 coaching staff loophole which allows kids to wrestle on school teams when they do not live in the school district. Anyone want to discuss that

Is the suggestion that the IHSAA should change the state series each year to ensure that the kids from whomever the powerhouses schools may be at the time get into the state tourney? An unreasonable ask. IHSAA can do a lot more to improve the the sport, wrestlebacks seems to be a more reasonable ask, but redistributing the schools to appease the powerhouses?