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wow we finally got a response from a referee sounds like we ruffled his feathers.....wasnt trying too and the stalling calls you are mentioning are extreme and definitely stalling my 2yr old daughter could call those. Like I said in a previous post I am taking the test(it isnt the bar exam nor is it rocket science) and hope to join you and your fellow zebras on the mat  real soon .All I was saying is if Im at a tournament and there are 4 officials there and 1 calls at least 25 stalling calls and the other 3 guys combined call 15 it makes you wonder ???????. These posts as far as I can see are for a select few zebras who lare lazy and dont get in good position thats what people are seeing and saying. but to call stallings for every little thing is absurd this is a war two kids trying to impose their will on each other and telling them to keep action going is not coaching and stalemates are never called in the situations im referring to its stalling called over and over again where guys are getting more stalling pts than they even score legitimately . Hey love all the good refs and hopefully you are one of them but a zebra without stripes is  merely a jack***

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wow we finally got a response from a referee sounds like we ruffled his feathers.....wasnt trying too and the stalling calls you are mentioning are extreme and definitely stalling my 2yr old daughter could call those. Like I said in a previous post I am taking the test(it isnt the bar exam nor is it rocket science) and hope to join you and your fellow zebras on the mat  real soon .All I was saying is if Im at a tournament and there are 4 officials there and 1 calls at least 25 stalling calls and the other 3 guys combined call 15 it makes you wonder ???????. These posts as far as I can see are for a select few zebras who lare lazy and dont get in good position thats what people are seeing and saying. but to call stallings for every little thing is absurd this is a war two kids trying to impose their will on each other and telling them to keep action going is not coaching and stalemates are never called in the situations im referring to its stalling called over and over again where guys are getting more stalling pts than they even score legitimately . Hey love all the good refs and hopefully you are one of them but a zebra without stripes is  merely a jack***

 

 

Stallling is like the strike zone in baseball.  Every ref has a different one.  I think the problem in wrestling though is some refs metaphoric stike zones are 3 inches by 3 inches, and some other refs are 3 yards by 3 yards.

 

 

Also said,  everytime stalling is called (legit or not), a majority of the fans and coaches complain.

As a result officials become more and more reluctant to call it.

 

My request to officials is that in their association meetings, they discuss stalling and with video try to regulate the stalling call to incorporate more consistency.  Maybe some of the associations are doing this.

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While I agree that stalling is often called questionably, one thing that every one needs to remember, is that even within the rules, the same match will often be officiated differently, depending on who is officiating.  Look at stalemate calls, and stalemate non-calls.  If a ref makes a stalemate call, early, the wrestler who was in better position at the time is going to be upset.  If the ref doesn't call a stalemate when he should, and it eventually leads to a take down, the wrestler who gives up the take down is going to be upset, and for good reason.  You just have to adjust to how the match is reffed.  As long as the ref is consistent......if not, then there are plenty of reasons to complain.

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great comments guys so to sum this up for the refs STAY CONSISTENT even if you are consistently a bad referee at least your consistent, and you will be known for being consistenly bad and can be looked out for and coached so kids arent losing matches due to your terrible calls they are losing because the other guy beat them

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Nate,

It's amazing that when you sit in the stands you never miss a call. When I'm up there too watching I'm the same way, I never miss a call. As for consistency in stalling there really isn't any because every match is different and every wreslter has there own style and technique. You look for the same things and you have to determine are they or aren't they stalling. Or is something else going on, like being over powered or I like this one, when a wrestler puts the legs in works a half nelson from side to side and never turns the wrestler over on his back. Top man is always stalling in that situation. But after you get your license you need to join the NEIAOA and come to our meetings. We hold 8 in a season and at each one stalling comes up. By the way, I was one of the officials at the sectional at Carroll, hope to see you at the meetings next year.

Jim Bopp

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Nate, I will be there this Saturday. Look forward to your critique.  ;)

 

Randal, I am going to be there this Saturday.  Believe me I will call you out loud and long when you call too many/too few stallings.   ;D  

Nate,

It's amazing that when you sit in the stands you never miss a call. When I'm up there too watching I'm the same way, I never miss a call. As for consistency in stalling there really isn't any because every match is different and every wreslter has there own style and technique. You look for the same things and you have to determine are they or aren't they stalling. Or is something else going on, like being over powered or I like this one, when a wrestler puts the legs in works a half nelson from side to side and never turns the wrestler over on his back. Top man is always stalling in that situation. But after you get your license you need to join the NEIAOA and come to our meetings. We hold 8 in a season and at each one stalling comes up. By the way, I was one of the officials at the sectional at Carroll, hope to see you at the meetings next year.

Jim Bopp

 

What do you know Jim....I hate it when refs with 25+ years of experience try to act like they know everything..... :)

 

Josh "Mr Fabulous" Howard

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I also think it would help refs to better understand the positions if they themselves had been in them recently. If its been 20 years since another man held you down against your will, or blocked you off on your feet, or laid on the bottom and studded-up against your turns you've forgotten what it feels and looks like. Fans and refs who haven't wrestled in 20 + years have lost some of their ability to accurately understand what's happening on the mat.

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I also think it would help refs to better understand the positions if they themselves had been in them recently. If its been 20 years since another man held you down against your will, or blocked you off on your feet, or laid on the bottom and studded-up against your turns you've forgotten what it feels and looks like. Fans and refs who haven't wrestled in 20 + years have lost some of their ability to accurately understand what's happening on the mat.

 

 

 

I do think that it would be funny to see the refs warm up like the athletes. Run in circles around all of the mats, start taking shots on one another, handfighting for positions, and cranking on wing on top. A little pre-match entertainment.

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Jim true as in any sport when you are in the stands you never miss a call. And I have seen many missed calls they happen in all sports I believe. But to that point the situation I am talking about was extreme no one in the bldg including scorekeepers, fans and coaches could figure out this one refs calls funny how the other 4 refs there were not having these problems match after match after match. And as for the mtgs when I become licensed I will be at everyone I can because if your not trying to get better your getting worse......................And  great posts by the guru Keep that in mind saturday these boys work so hard try not to be the deciding factor of a match unless it is absolutely necessary

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Calling (and using stalling) is an art form.  There are many instances it should be called as soon as you recognize it and many instances it is obvious and should be ignored:

1) if someone is protecting a slim lead = call it

2) if it is 8-0 and the guy with 0 isn't pushing the issue = why get yourself involved...

3) first period 0-0 and nobody seems to care, or waiting for the right moment = call it both ways

 

The good refs know that they either understand how to call stalling or they don't.  If they get it, they call it.  If they aren't comfortable calling it then they should take that call out of their tool box.

 

Some of you have touched on a much greater problem that you may not even be aware of yet.  The system for how officials are chosen to work the state level has changed dramatically this year.  In the past, coaches rated officials, period.  If coaches rated as one of the best you got a date to the big dance.  Now, coaches votes are only half.  There is only one other criteria on the list that refs can't control, number years experience.  What has happened already and you haven't even realized it is that the young refs are done for the season.  You will see a trend over the next few weeks.

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.  What has happened already and you haven't even realized it is that the young refs are done for the season.  You will see a trend over the next few weeks.

 

But there are some very good younger officials....

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Dont confuse years of experience with age.  Yes older officials tend to have more years of experience but there are some younger officials that have 10-15 years of experience and the new rating system will not prevent them from moving up.  When calling stalling experience is a key factor.  

 

Aside from that awood, I think your post is spot on.

 

 

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I guess I'll chime in on this topic too...

 

Stalling is stalling.  It is difficult to expect all or most officials to call it the same way for each match.

 

Like with many decisions that have to be made by officials, there is some "judgement" or "feel" involved

in making calls.  As a coach, fan, and former official, I agree with most, but rarely all the calls made by officials.  I think that is human nature.  

 

Regarding stall calls in particular, I did see one official this year call stalling within the first few seconds of several matches at a super six.  If the wrestler would back up out of the circle before making contact with his opponent, the official would give a stalling warning.  Often times, this would occur in the first few seconds of the match.  To me this was a little excessive, because I feel the intent of the rule is to prevent wrestlers from stalling during the course of the match, to "protect a lead" or "Keep it close".  In my mind the rule was not made to be used at the very beginning of the match.  I simply told my wrestlers to be prepared for this and not back out of the circle before making contact.  Despite my warning to the wrestlers in advance of the match, we still had one of the earlier wrestlers get a stall warning just after the match started.  It was not a big deal, but I then reinforced the concept to the others on the team, and did not have any more issues with it for the rest of that dual.

 

Not a big deal at all, but I can say that this was the only official i have ever seen make this type of stall call.  Fortunately, this was in a team dual format, so it had little affect on the match.  We adjusted and continued on.  However, if this type of call were going to be made during an individual (like conference, or state tourney series), I would probably be more critical of the call, because his interpretation of the rule was so different from the "norm."  

 

When one official is the only one consistently making this type of call, it appears to me that the official is trying to make the match more about him (and his knowledge of the rules) than it is about the wrestlers competing.  The very same thing could be said about coaches, too! I have seen many coaches go "over the top" in some of their protestations! In my opinion, the best officials are not normally even noticed.  They have a very important job, are there to enforce the rules and make the calls.  They rarely get any credit for their efforts, and they get very little compensation for their time and talents.  I am not being critical here, and never even mentioned this to the official, because I thought it was not that big of a deal in that setting.  I did notice it, however, and felt it was a little excessive.    

 

Just my $.02  

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I see one thing that everyone can seem to agree on is that stalling is a very difficult call to make or not make . So it makes sense that most refs would rather just let the kids on the mat settle it  thats why they dont call lots of stalling penalties .Which in my experience over 20yrs ,95% of the refs do a good job of doing that. You 5% out there this isnt about you and how smart or different  or experienced you are. As someone said earlier the best refs go unnoticed . And the 2 refs I noticed this year were go figure THE WORST REFS I HAVE SEEN THIS YEAR when in doubt swallow your whistle and let the 2 kids decide the result thats all im saying

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You are penalized as well in high school and college. Added point for a near fall or loss of position, first offense in college, 2nd in high school. This does take in effect being in pin situation and yelling for injury time instead of being pinned then winning match.

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  • 2 weeks later...

ihsaa.org - click 'officials' - scroll down to 'become an official'

 

100 questions, true/false, and you only have to get 75% right...

 

The wrestling mole will give you a great deal on a gray shirt and your off.

 

Also, ask an official in your area about the new rating system for selecting officials for advancement.

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