1oldwrestler Posted January 26, 2011 Share Posted January 26, 2011 For the people saying the kid got beat out fair and square, and he has no reason to be mad since the better man got the spot, I have a little perspective. I know throughout my four years in high school, I got very close with my coaches. It seems from what everyone is saying, the Yorktown coaches have been trying pretty hard to find a new 40 lber, with the Jay County kid and now the Franklin kid. To me this is sending a clear message to the 40 lber that "you are not good enough, and we are going to do our best to replace you with someone better." I know that I would feel betrayed by the people who are supposed to be supporting me if I was him, but if he still supports his coaches, more power to him I guess. I can just hear Dulaney coaching the original 40 lber, "You're doin a bad job!!!" lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RASSLER4LIFE Posted January 26, 2011 Share Posted January 26, 2011 Nickster90 sure acts as though he has a big dog in this fight for a guy who lives so far away. I was not complaining about Yorktown having an open club, they have that right. I was making an observation based on all the kids I have seen wrestle for them through out the years. The Bennett's from Anderson Highland along with Mason Berryman, and the Carroll boys along with many more young men(if by using these great wrestlers offends any I am sorry). These boys all chose to stay at Highland with the exception of one and Highland is no longer a High School. I do not blame them for transferring to a closer, far better school. He did start the year there as well and has a long relationship with the coaches. If the transferred wrestler had been there at the beginning of the school year a lot of the complaints would not be heard on here. I just don't understand why you wouldn't choose a school closer as I stated before. I do not know the family that has transferred there son but on the other thread on this topic I stated that they must feel that they are being unfairly targeted by the administration at Franklin. I would move my children as well just not 2-3 hrs. away. The academics that many seem to think Yorktown has to offer is likely very good but can not be any better than some of the schools closer to Franklin. I do feel for the 140lber that had worked hard for his team and has been bumped from the line-up but do wish the family and the transferred wrestler good luck. He made a mistake, paid his punishment and tried to move on. Lets cut him some slack, we have all made mistakes we wish we could change. He is getting his second chance and I wish him the best. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Silence Dogood Posted January 26, 2011 Share Posted January 26, 2011 I struggle with the IHSAA's role and some people saying nothing wrong or illegal happened. I believe it is clear that students CANNOT move for athletic reasons alone. If the school a student leaves from signs off on it, that makes it legal? If the school decides to fight it, it becomes illegal? I have a hard time with this. How was the Jay County kid's transfer illegal when he moved before the school year? Because Jay County fought it....That makes it illegal? If they had signed off on it, it becomes legal? I would bet that if the Jay County kid moved to Evansville the shcool would not have fought it, but since he moved to a school that was close and would be wrestling against him in the same regional it becomes an issue. In the Franklin case the sutdent moves to a school that is in a different Semi State, which I would guess the school figures it is easier to sign off than to fight it. If he moved to a school in the same sectional you might see a different stance from Franklin. This is where I struggle with what is legal and illegal. The rule is there to create fair competition for all. So how does the school that the student is leaving from get to decide the legality of it? In this case I think Carroll might be the big loser as this questionable transfer could be the difference in them making a team state appearance this year. Does anyone know if this is how this works? If the original school releases the student, does the IHSAA not conduct its own inquiry into whether the transfer was primarily for athletic purposes? Or do they still review it and found in this case that it wasn't primarily for athletic purposes? Maybe they found that the broken relationship between the student and the administration at Franklin as described by DaveReese was the primary reason for the move? Which begs the question - why not go somewhere closer to Franklin? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KarlHungus Posted January 26, 2011 Share Posted January 26, 2011 What I would like to let all of you who hide behind screen names and take shots is that you are picking on very nice people who, right or wrong, made what they think is the best decision for their family and their son. I haven't seen posts taking shots at the VanHorns. If there are examples, please make moderators aware of them. As for the venom that is being directed at Yorktown, I am guessing that most of you are involved with a team that may have to face them and if that is the case, I wouldn't be happy about it either. This really isn't the case. Bellmont is the obvious team that has the most to lose and I have not seen many posts coming from Bellmont folks in this thread. I know for a fact that the poster that started this thread is not a Bellmont person. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KarlHungus Posted January 26, 2011 Share Posted January 26, 2011 Does anyone know if this is how this works? If the original school releases the student, does the IHSAA not conduct its own inquiry into whether the transfer was primarily for athletic purposes? Or do they still review it and found in this case that it wasn't primarily for athletic purposes? If the original school releases than the IHSAA does not do the inquiry. Maybe they found that the broken relationship between the student and the administration at Franklin as described by DaveReese was the primary reason for the move? Which begs the question - why not go somewhere closer to Franklin? I would guess this is exactly what happened. A similar situation happened with a football/track star from Penn who transferred to Jimtown. However this move was 7 miles, not 70. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1oldwrestler Posted January 26, 2011 Share Posted January 26, 2011 Well, oldwrestler, if the Mom is the kids mom then it sounds like the young man was not raised with an entitlement mentality which will serve him well in his life long after this year's wrestling season ends. He won't be sitting around 20 years from now going, "Man life has really screwed me over." He will continue to work hard to overcome life's adversity and be a successful contributor to society. This has nothing to do with an entitlement mentality, and I also doubt he'll be sitting around 20 years from now going, "Man life has really screwed me over." This has everything to do with a lack of support from his coaches. This isn't the same situation as a kid randomly moving in from a different area, in which case there would be no debate. It seems to me this is a case of coaches actively trying to replace one of their wrestlers. While you are right that he is not "entitled" to his spot, there is something wrong with a coach looking to bring in someone to replace him. Make do with what you have. And I'm sure when you were wrestling for Castle you would have helped your coach find recruits to replace you because you were a weak spot in the lineup, and you were in no way entitled to your spot : And while I know its not proven that they're recruiting, it sure does seem that way as there have been two potential move-ins at the same weight, one of which occurred the week before sectionals. And this is coincidentally the same weight that one of the studs from their biggest rivals wrestles. The funny thing about all this is, because of injury, this weight shouldn't be as big of a problem for Yorktown as their coaches seem to think. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IMAWRESTLER Posted January 26, 2011 Share Posted January 26, 2011 Does anyone know if this is how this works? If the original school releases the student, does the IHSAA not conduct its own inquiry into whether the transfer was primarily for athletic purposes? Or do they still review it and found in this case that it wasn't primarily for athletic purposes? Maybe they found that the broken relationship between the student and the administration at Franklin as described by DaveReese was the primary reason for the move? Which begs the question - why not go somewhere closer to Franklin? Well put question. From what I saw earlier in the year his ranking in the Evansville SS was top 4 or 5 and his ranking now in the Fort Wayne SS is 1, better chance to make it to state maybe. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rebelfan7 Posted January 27, 2011 Share Posted January 27, 2011 I don't care if there was recruiting or anything else. But I believe the student should not be allowed to finish the season. He started the season at one school and should have to finish the season there. If a college athlete decides to leave his team and school for another, he is required to sit out one year. This should hold true for high school sports as well. It's been stated the student made a mistake and served his punishment, well I am glad he accepted his responsibility for his actions. But to remove a student from a school because there was a rift between the family and the school is unacceptable. If I switched schools every time I disagreed with my teachers, principals, AD, or coach I would have had to move to a different state. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Walter Sobchak Posted January 27, 2011 Share Posted January 27, 2011 The one thing about wrestling that makes it different is that everyone has the chance to prove their worth and earn their spot no matter who they are or who their parents are. It doesn't do any good for parents to suck up to coaches, as the line up is set with wrestle offs. For those that say the coaches are in the wrong for putting this kid in the line up, I would counter that they would've been wrong not to put him in ..... , I am sure the kid who has been in all year is upset that he wont get the chance to gain valuable experience in the post season for next year, but bottom line, he is not the best 140# kid anymore.. maybe he can use this to motivate him to hit it hard in the off season and make sure he can keep his spot next year!! Am I wrong?!? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rebelfan7 Posted January 27, 2011 Share Posted January 27, 2011 nickster90 the main point of my post was the IHSAA should consider a regulation comparable the NCAA. But instead of waiting a school year the athlete should not be allowed to finish the season. Also I agree Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rebels4life Posted January 27, 2011 Share Posted January 27, 2011 I don't know what really happen, but I have met the family through all the youth tournaments my kids have been involved with. They are good people, so I trust that the decision they made for their son was in his best interest. We all make mistakes, just learn from them and move on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
frigginhurts Posted January 27, 2011 Share Posted January 27, 2011 This has to be one of the most illogical statements I have ever read. There isa difference between a disagreement and a rift. Franklin High School doesn't own Cole Van Horn. He belongs to his mother and father, and they can remove him from school for any reason they darn well please. How do you get to be the judge of what is acceptable and "unacceptable" for parents to do with their children? one thing you are forgetting it he does not have a right to participate. If he indeed did transfer for athletic reasons he should be ineligible. Isn't that the IHSAA rule? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IUBjj171 Posted January 27, 2011 Share Posted January 27, 2011 Cool. The problem with this though is that you are penalizing the kid because of his parent's move, decision, what have you. In the NCAA you are dealing with legal aged adults who are responsible for their own decisions and choices. IN HS, you have to go where Mom and Dad go. If mom and dad move than its kinda tough luck for the kid. And if parents do not trust or have an issue with the administration, then they have a right to move somewhere else to a different school rather than "tough it out" for a semester. Sucks for the kid who was beat out of a spot but thats what wrestle offs are for. If a kid is injured all year and is unable to "practice with the team" and finally heals up and beats a kid out of a spot in wrestle off right before a sectional, then the comeback guy gets the spot. REcruiting gets called out every year. Every year. MD was always the talk down here until we discovered the are all inbred Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rebelfan7 Posted January 27, 2011 Share Posted January 27, 2011 True the NCAA does deal with legal adults but I still think if the athlete moves in the middle of the season then he should not be allowed to complete that sports season. If that athlete decides he wants to do a sport in the next sports season then go ahead and allow him. It would be horrible for the athlete involved but more consistent overall. It won't be fair for those athletes where their parents are forced to move due to their careers. However, for those seeking to switch schools in the middle of the season because their current team is headed no where, it will prevent this from happening. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rebelfan7 Posted January 27, 2011 Share Posted January 27, 2011 Also I hold no grudge towards Yorktown, I wish them the best of luck on their quest at attempting to reappear in the team state finals. I just wanted to give a simple, maybe not fair, but consistent solution the IHSAA could use in situations like this. We need to eliminate the gray area of deciding if was the move for academic or athletic purposes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dontbeacoward Posted January 27, 2011 Share Posted January 27, 2011 ATTENTION!!! I had to take time to register on this site to express my feelings on people sitting back behind their computer screens and complaining about what is wrong and right with this situation. There is not one of us including myself that has always made the right choice each and every time. Kinda of reminds me of how I used to think when I went to church and seen someone in the audience that I knew was just doing illegal drugs the night before. By no means am I a holy roller, but whatever that person did the night before doesn't mean they should not be given another chance to do right the next day. This goes for this situation, the Vanhorn kid obviously made a mistake and he and his parents came together and made the choice of him attending Yorktown to wrestle for whatever reasons. I feel that there needs to be a clear cut rule in the rule books that directly relates to this situation happening in the future. I am not a parent of a wrestler, nor am I for or against this. I enjoy watching high school wrestling period. I wrestled many years ago for Delta and I can say I was never a gifted kid when it came to wrestling. Attending Delta in the 80's, being a wrestler was the ultimate challenge for many young men. I was always there for the team, whether or not I ever earned a varsity spot. This is a sport that individuals participate in, but in the end this is a "Team" sport sanctioned by the IHSAA. I totally understand that there are coaches out there as well as current wrestlers that might have to face Yorktown or Vanhorn in the coming weeks that are complaining and moaning about this and spending to much energy when the situation has already been ok'd by everyone involved. If not the kid would not be in the sectionals this Sat. I will also mention that being from Delta, growing up in Delaware County, we never got along with Yorktown and they were always our rivals. But I am proud to say that I am a supporter of Yorktown Wrestling and their coaches. I know Trent McCormick is a former Delta State Champion and he is a great coach. I will also not that Troy Dulaney was a wrestler for Muncie Southside and has been criticized on here, but say what you want whether you like him or not, the guy is very vocal and is into coaching and making sure these kids wrestle their best each match. That is just the difference in coaching, some may say that McCormick sits there and says nothing and Dulaney is the loud mouth but if it works for them and it looks like it does then who cares. One last thing, I will be in the stands starting Sat. through the state finals and rooting on all these young men putting it on the line each and every week. I will also be really watching the 140 lb. weight class that consists of Vanhorn from Yorktown and Crabtree from Muncie Central. This will be one match that I have to root against Yorktown as well as Mr. Vanhorn just because Crabtree is dating my daughter and I want to see him do well. Any other time I will be rooting on Vanhorn and the Yorktown Tigers! Last but not least, I am not a coward and do not sit behind a computer screen being a tuff guy. I will be the big guy in the stands sitting in the Yorktown section. Just saying! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oscar Posted January 27, 2011 Share Posted January 27, 2011 I wonder how long this post will be up? Are you still wondering? This is a serious issue which needs to be discussed.I think most would agree. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SamDad Posted January 27, 2011 Share Posted January 27, 2011 There are 310 other teams this kid could have ended up on, yet he just so happens to end up at a school 80 miles away and that is a team state contender. Talk about hitting the lottery, if I were Dulaney and McCormmick I would be at the local 7/11 and buying some lottery tickets. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jimtown 138 Posted January 27, 2011 Share Posted January 27, 2011 Z-Z-Z-Z-Z-Z-Z-Z-Z-Z-Z-Z-Z-Z-Z........... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oscar Posted January 27, 2011 Share Posted January 27, 2011 Z-Z-Z-Z-Z-Z-Z-Z-Z-Z-Z-Z-Z-Z-Z........... A-A-A-A-A-A-A-AA-A-A-A-Ahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ekocottonball Posted January 27, 2011 Share Posted January 27, 2011 Here's the problem: chaos will result from this situation. It's bad enough we have kids competing for 3 or 4 institutions during their 4 years of high school. Heck, we had one local kid QB four different teams in four years in South Bend and Mishawaka awhile back. Now we are going to have kids transferring mid season? Where does it end. What if a kid wrestles for Franklin in November, transfers-wrestles for Mishawaka in December, then transfers-wrestles for Penn in January? Where does it end? 4 transfer per year? 5 transfers per year? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
edb41 Posted January 27, 2011 Share Posted January 27, 2011 Can you imagine the uproar if this involved the Zeller kid from Washington transfering to say LN wanting to play basketball. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikev Posted January 27, 2011 Share Posted January 27, 2011 guesIs wearing sweatpants while coaching doesnt sound or look that bad anymore!!!!!!!! HAHAHA!......well put......this is my last post on this subject as i feel it's been beaten into the ground enough now....besides the fact that sectionals start in 2 days and we should turn our attention there.......in reading thru all of this i see people saying that we shouldn't be putting down this kid or his family for what they did.......i don't think anyone is really trying to do that......the questionable decisions are more pointed to the yorktown coach who is allowing this to happen to one of his wrestlers - being pushed aside at the 11th hour by someone (who appearently is a better wrestler) that has just now joined the team, all in what appears to be a move geared towards getting his team to the big show.....as i've said before, not something i would do and i feel a coach should have more loyalty than that......i'm sure all the other kids see that too and are just glad a better kid than they are didn't show up because they would haave been out also......and lastly, i don't think the "mom" was who really wrote in....but it was a good try anyway........ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MatChick76 Posted January 27, 2011 Share Posted January 27, 2011 HAHAHA!......well put......this is my last post on this subject as i feel it's been beaten into the ground enough now....besides the fact that sectionals start in 2 days and we should turn our attention there.......in reading thru all of this i see people saying that we shouldn't be putting down this kid or his family for what they did.......i don't think anyone is really trying to do that......the questionable decisions are more pointed to the yorktown coach who is allowing this to happen to one of his wrestlers - being pushed aside at the 11th hour by someone (who appearently is a better wrestler) that has just now joined the team, all in what appears to be a move geared towards getting his team to the big show.....as i've said before, not something i would do and i feel a coach should have more loyalty than that......i'm sure all the other kids see that too and are just glad a better kid than they are didn't show up because they would haave been out also......and lastly, i don't think the "mom" was who really wrote in....but it was a good try anyway........ Amen brother. I think this whole issue got muddled along the way. I never really saw anyone putting down the Van Horn kid or his family, but it's turned into a lot of talk about jealousy, and the real issue has gotten lost in the mix. When I first posted on this topic, I was feeling a lot of empathy for the 140 lber who lost his spot, I have no jealousy towards Yorktown, nor do I think this addition to their team will get them past some of the other teams that will be at Team State (i.e., I don't think this one kid will ensure they win a state championship). I was also feeling some hostility towards the IHSAA, because it always seems like they "pick and choose" at random which cases violate rules, and which ones don't, and I think they need to be more consistent about the rules. I've been focused on the bigger issue, rather than one particular case, it just so happens that at the current time, the Van Horn case is what's in the spotlight. It's nothing personal towards Van Horn or Yorktown. Who's ready for sectionals?!?! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jimtown 138 Posted January 27, 2011 Share Posted January 27, 2011 This is also going to be my last post on the subject. I have one question for you though. If you knew that the mom was the mom, would it make a difference to you? Even if you think the mom is not the mom, reread her post and see what you think about the attitude and outlook she has in the situation. It is the outlook that I would want myself, my wife, and my sons to have. I am certain that Yorktown mom is who she says she is, and I can't praise her and her son enough on how they have handled the situation. Nick Antey No, once again it has nothing to do with the kid or the family... jeez. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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