RankingsGuy Posted February 14, 2010 Share Posted February 14, 2010 this should make a case for wrestlebacks in our individual state tournament... i've compiled a team of the highest ranked kid in the state at each weight to not make it to the show this year.. some of the draws were a real shame, and each of these kids were deserving of an opportunity to wrestleback and qualify for a spot at Conseco that the IHSAA has denied them. 103: Shannon Garretson- Peru 112: Dustin Kief- Franklin Community 119: Marc Escobed0- Lake Central 125: Zach Thornton- Chesterton 130: Collin Crume- Jimtown 135: Jeremy Hill- Jimtown 140: Victor Rodriguez- East Chicago Central 145: Ben Moberly- Floyd Central 152: Jacob Tonte- Perry Meridian 160: Jake Jennings- New Palestine 171: Cheney Dale- McCutcheon 189: Aaron Stevenson- Indian Creek 215: Vlade Nacovski- Lake Central 285: Evan Floyd- Northwestern looking at this group of 14, this is a SQUAD! if these 14 were all on the same team, i think they'd contend for a team state title. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sb25 Posted February 14, 2010 Share Posted February 14, 2010 I like your idea, but shouldn't you exclude those who did not make the show on account of injuries or disciplinary issues? Wrestle backs wouldn't matter for either of those. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
youngone Posted February 14, 2010 Share Posted February 14, 2010 I like your idea, but shouldn't you exclude those who did not make the show on account of injuries or disciplinary issues? Wrestle backs wouldn't matter for either of those. I Agree exclude the injuries and disciplinaries those are unavoidable, but we can prevent some of the quality wrestlers who just get bad draws from going home a week early. The problem is year after year we have this problem and personly I cannot see a light at the end of the tunnel. ISHAA just doesn't like quality improvement. I also wanted to add that I personally saw a kid who has no business at all to be at the state finals. The kid got 4th at regionals gets an amazing draw makes it on gets dominated in the next two rounds, while the top three kids from that weight class draw numb. 1,2,and 9 in the state and they came in with a combined 3 losses. This is a mockery of our state finals. We can do better; We can have wrestle backs. My Last note, Lets make Skill and Consistancy our priority, not luck of the draw. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
decbell1 Posted February 14, 2010 Share Posted February 14, 2010 I think it would make more sense to put Brooks Faurote in at 135. He was the one with the bad luck and bad draw. Hill got beat by someone that Faurote has beaten 2 or 3 times this year. The only reason Hill was ranked ahead of Faurote was because of a coin flip. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tangarrray Posted February 14, 2010 Share Posted February 14, 2010 I would like to see them go back to taking 3 from regionals and give these kids a chance to wrestleback so that we get the best 4 to Conseco. At Merrillille, there were some of the qtr final losers were probably in the top 4 but because of bad draws they dont get the opportunity. Some examples could be - Orzechowicz @ 112, Torres & Escobedo @ 119, Thorton & Hartman @ 125, Anglemeyer, Marcuccilli,& Schurg @ 135, Rodriguez @ 140, Torres & Lewandowski @ 145, Peco @ 171, Fowler @ 189, Mcdaniel @ 215 and Wedow or Mukai @ 285. By only taking 3 from Regionals it would take the same amount of time with wrestlebacks as it would taking 4 with no wrestleback . Come on Ihsaa lets get this right. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GrecoISU Posted February 14, 2010 Share Posted February 14, 2010 I would like to see them go back to taking 3 from regionals and give these kids a chance to wrestleback so that we get the best 4 to Conseco. At Merrillille, there were some of the qtr final losers were probably in the top 4 but because of bad draws they dont get the opportunity. Some examples could be - Orzechowicz @ 112, Torres & Escobedo @ 119, Thorton & Hartman @ 125, Anglemeyer, Marcuccilli,& Schurg @ 135, Rodriguez @ 140, Torres & Lewandowski @ 145, Peco @ 171, Fowler @ 189, Mcdaniel @ 215 and Wedow or Mukai @ 285. By only taking 3 from Regionals it would take the same amount of time with wrestlebacks as it would taking 4 with no wrestleback . Come on Ihsaa lets get this right. As much as we all like the ideas of wrestlebacks I feel that the fourth placers from the regionals have MORE THAN proven themselves the last two years. I don't feel bad at all or think it's "hard luck" for those kids not wrestling because of disciplinary issues. Had they not been doing something to get into trouble, they'd be wrestling... Stupid decisions are not "hard luck". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smooth34 Posted February 14, 2010 Share Posted February 14, 2010 I think it would make more sense to put Brooks Faurote in at 135. He was the one with the bad luck and bad draw. Hill got beat by someone that Faurote has beaten 2 or 3 times this year. The only reason Hill was ranked ahead of Faurote was because of a coin flip. Didn't Hill beat Faurote at the Al Smith? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
decbell1 Posted February 14, 2010 Share Posted February 14, 2010 Didn't Hill beat Faurote at the Al Smith? In the final, ultimate overtime because Hill got choice. He won the toss to open the 2nd period. I am not trying to make excuses, because I think that if Hill and Faurote wrestled 10 times, it would be close very time. I just think if you're talking about Hard Luck, the guy that got the hard luck was Faurote, not Hill. Hill had the draw to get to state and just couldn't close out a pretty good Zeke Schultz. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grizzly83 Posted February 14, 2010 Share Posted February 14, 2010 The 4th place finisher have proven to be able to win a 4 man mini tourney to get to state a couple of times but with out wrestle backs we do not know who the 4 best kids are that should be advancing. Would they make it with wrestle backs? How much does that luck of the draw play in to who gets to state and who stays home. Some quality kids that lost to a better wrestler but had beaten kids that made it to state earlier in the tournament series are staying home because they had bad luck. I would think more times than not with wrestle backs someone taking 4th from regionals would not make it to state. Remember that taking 4 to semi state was something that the coach community had not asked for but rather the ihsaa in their great wisdom told the wrestling community of Indiana that was needed. If we would only take 3 from regionals and have wrestle backs from the quarters on then the best 4 kids could move on. Then luck of the draw would be lessen greatly. Sadly I do not see this changing anytime soon with the current people in charge of the ihsaa. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BB145 Posted February 14, 2010 Share Posted February 14, 2010 How can anyone argue with the 4th place advancing to semi state with all the 4th place finishes advancing to state. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jimtown 138 Posted February 15, 2010 Share Posted February 15, 2010 As much as we all like the ideas of wrestlebacks I feel that the fourth placers from the regionals have MORE THAN proven themselves the last two years. I don't feel bad at all or think it's "hard luck" for those kids not wrestling because of disciplinary issues. Had they not been doing something to get into trouble, they'd be wrestling... Stupid decisions are not "hard luck". You don't know what you're talking about... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GrecoISU Posted February 15, 2010 Share Posted February 15, 2010 You don't know what you're talking about... Expand in your all mighty wisdom please. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chuckm Posted February 15, 2010 Share Posted February 15, 2010 I agree, a decision involves choice so that removes any vestige of luck from the situation.Of course kids don't always make the right choice and discipline with guidance helps put them back on the straight on narrow. I couldn't call a discipline case hard luck unless the kid had no knowledge of the rule or there were no alternate choices Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smooth34 Posted February 15, 2010 Share Posted February 15, 2010 In the final, ultimate overtime because Hill got choice. He won the toss to open the 2nd period. I am not trying to make excuses, because I think that if Hill and Faurote wrestled 10 times, it would be close very time. I just think if you're talking about Hard Luck, the guy that got the hard luck was Faurote, not Hill. Hill had the draw to get to state and just couldn't close out a pretty good Zeke Schultz. Gotcha, but we don't know whether or not Hill would have ridden Faurote out... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jimtown 138 Posted February 15, 2010 Share Posted February 15, 2010 Expand in your all mighty wisdom please. "I don't feel bad at all or think it's "hard luck" for those kids not wrestling because of disciplinary issues. Had they not been doing something to get into trouble, they'd be wrestling... Stupid decisions are not "hard luck"." So anybody that was beat in the second round is stupid and has disciplinary issues? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GrecoISU Posted February 15, 2010 Share Posted February 15, 2010 "I don't feel bad at all or think it's "hard luck" for those kids not wrestling because of disciplinary issues. Had they not been doing something to get into trouble, they'd be wrestling... Stupid decisions are not "hard luck"." So anybody that was beat in the second round is stupid and has disciplinary issues? What are you referring to? I'm not talking about kids beat in the ticket round... No where did I mention that, those kids I feel for. They have worked so hard to get to that point and some ended up with the toughest draws and losing to the champion. Disciplinary Issues mean just that, disciplinary issues. Those not wrestling because of a poor decision they made. For example, Jacob Tonte from PM. Hard luck would be drawing into a potential state champion for the ticket round or coming up with an injury as Chaney Dale did from McCutchen or Aaron Stevenson from Indian Creek. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chuckm Posted February 15, 2010 Share Posted February 15, 2010 "I don't feel bad at all or think it's "hard luck" for those kids not wrestling because of disciplinary issues. Had they not been doing something to get into trouble, they'd be wrestling... Stupid decisions are not "hard luck"." So anybody that was beat in the second round is stupid and has disciplinary issues? No, if you follow the thread from the beginning you see that he is pointing out wrestlers not allowed to compete due to a violation of a school rule should not be considered in a" hard luck" thread. At least one on the original list was a case in point. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jimtown 138 Posted February 15, 2010 Share Posted February 15, 2010 Sorry guys, I missed that part. I still have a heavy heart and I apologize... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rey mysterio Posted February 15, 2010 Share Posted February 15, 2010 this should make a case for wrestlebacks in our individual state tournament... i've compiled a team of the highest ranked kid in the state at each weight to not make it to the show this year.. some of the draws were a real shame, and each of these kids were deserving of an opportunity to wrestleback and qualify for a spot at Conseco that the IHSAA has denied them. 103: Shannon Garretson- Peru 112: Dustin Kief- Franklin Community 119: Marc Escobed0- Lake Central 125: Zach Thornton- Chesterton 130: Collin Crume- Jimtown 135: Jeremy Hill- Jimtown 140: Victor Rodriguez- East Chicago Central 145: Ben Moberly- Floyd Central 152: Jacob Tonte- Perry Meridian 160: Jake Jennings- New Palestine 171: Cheney Dale- McCutcheon 189: Aaron Stevenson- Indian Creek 215: Vlade Nacovski- Lake Central 285: Evan Floyd- Northwestern looking at this group of 14, this is a SQUAD! if these 14 were all on the same team, i think they'd contend for a team state title. was told garretson was really sick friday night and saturday mornin pukin and had it comin out the other end every half hour. had an allergic reaction to some food or somethin. he didnt sleep at all and had no strength and couldnt breath well. managed to win his first one but couldn pull off the next one..just couldnt do it ...gave a good effort u could tell he def wasnt himself at all. garretson beat schoettle at mishawaka 6-1 while hamm lost to him 5-1 in which hamm won the weight class. its sad garretson def woulda won this weight class if he were himself. sad that this happened to him and the day right before semi state. kudos for him goin out there and tryin took some guts. good luck to him for whatever his future holds Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mhsfan09 Posted February 15, 2010 Share Posted February 15, 2010 you can talk about a bad draw or what could happened but it doesnt matter in all honesty. the wrestlers going to indy have earned it and worked hard. not saying others didnt but if a wrestler is supposedly getting a bad draw and cant get out, then they arent truly a champion? not saying they arent quality kids who should place in state, but the tournament is to find a champion, sometimes its who is hot at the right time. just an opinion, and i am a fan of 4th place guys gettin the shot to wrestle the #1's and have a chance and have no wrestle backs Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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