NickS Posted January 12, 2009 Share Posted January 12, 2009 look at the top 5 and compare those scores to ours too big of a gap just because u have more teams under us doesnt mean we are better i could have told you we had a better program than colorado my point is that the higher ranked states all find a way to make classes work and its helping there wrestlers succeed and get great opportunities after high school, to wrestle at a top college. Throw that with all of Y2's Data you stubborn classless supporters can really say all they want is one champion cause its a True champion, (when in fact, it is not) Forget just us, what is the top 5 doing that pretty much the rest of the country is not doing? What about all those other states that have a class system that are behind us? Why aren't they better than us? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ahawkeye Posted January 12, 2009 Share Posted January 12, 2009 Man oh man is this horse dead enough yet? How many times are we going to go through this? The post started nicely but it always ends up like this ;D Good luck trying to get some one who doesn't want to see your point of view to change theirs! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KarlHungus Posted January 12, 2009 Share Posted January 12, 2009 Man oh man is this horse dead enough yet? How many times are we going to go through this? The post started nicely but it always ends up like this ;D Good luck trying to get some one who doesn't want to see your point of view to change theirs! On the contrary, I think that many people have logically looked at much of the data and are slowly softening their once staunch views that a single class is the only way to go. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
awood1 Posted January 12, 2009 Share Posted January 12, 2009 Personally I really don't see how a class system is a good thing. It boils down to making money. Other than that, no impact. making money = IHSAA Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NickS Posted January 12, 2009 Share Posted January 12, 2009 Man oh man is this horse dead enough yet? How many times are we going to go through this? The post started nicely but it always ends up like this ;D Good luck trying to get some one who doesn't want to see your point of view to change theirs! Yeah you're right, it is a two way street though. Too bad no one can explain to me why so many classed states are worse than us. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KarlHungus Posted January 12, 2009 Share Posted January 12, 2009 Man oh man is this horse dead enough yet? How many times are we going to go through this? The post started nicely but it always ends up like this ;D Good luck trying to get some one who doesn't want to see your point of view to change theirs! Yeah you're right, it is a two way street though. Too bad no one can explain to me why so many classed states are worse than us. If I were to just look at the Fargo results, one would say that Indiana is a stronger wrestling state then New York. Then I would be committed to the funny farm because 99.9 percent of the wrestling community knows this is not true. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pin2win1 Posted January 12, 2009 Share Posted January 12, 2009 wcs, its because some people think their can be a quick fix to everything. Therefore they look the the states ahead of us and think what is one thing they have that we don't and they conciously or subconciously pick out the quickest and easiest thing to fix, like class wrestling yet fail to realize there are many states below us with class wrestling as well. What they forget is that one of the big reasons Indiana is behind in wrestling is due to the fact that when most kids grow up in Indiana they dream about basketball and being a great basketball player, not a great wrestler (MD and Mishawaka communities are exceptions I do believe as there may be a few others as well). No matter if we go to classes or stay classless, we are still going to have to face the fact that we are a basketball state, and it will take years to change this mentality. That is if there is even any chance of that mentality changing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
awood1 Posted January 13, 2009 Share Posted January 13, 2009 California has 2,000+ HS's and one class....MAN is it tough to win!! ;D They could divide to 6 classes and still be competing amongst larger pools of kids. P.S. They also have a 40 match max? IN does some things that are pretty good and people in CA recognize them as such. Although they have no concept of the limited travel idea! Kids here regularly take Friday off (with the blessing of the school!) to travel to a tournament within the state and several take trips across the country to wrestle. Folks like Clovis have license to travel wherever they want to get the best competition and regularly do so. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NickS Posted January 13, 2009 Share Posted January 13, 2009 If I were to just look at the Fargo results, one would say that Indiana is a stronger wrestling state then New York. Then I would be committed to the funny farm because 99.9 percent of the wrestling community knows this is not true. I don't know how Indiana and New York actually compare, so I won't. I would rank Indiana at around 15, give or take. So that means we're better than 30, maybe 35 states (most of which are obviously classed). I think awood has made a good point with the travel restrictions we have. All the stronger states can wrestle anywhere they want, thus find the best competition anywhere and everywhere. However, we're stuck within 300 miles of our own borders. We can't even go to the Ironman because schools from all across the country wrestle at it. How juvenile are these travel restrictions? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Y2CJ41 Posted January 13, 2009 Share Posted January 13, 2009 Michigan has the same restrictions as us. New York has restrictions too. I know Kansas has some funky ones too. Those are all just off the top of my head. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KarlHungus Posted January 13, 2009 Share Posted January 13, 2009 If I were to just look at the Fargo results, one would say that Indiana is a stronger wrestling state then New York. Then I would be committed to the funny farm because 99.9 percent of the wrestling community knows this is not true. I don't know how Indiana and New York actually compare, so I won't. I would rank Indiana at around 15, give or take. So that means we're better than 30, maybe 35 states (most of which are obviously classed). I think awood has made a good point with the travel restrictions we have. All the stronger states can wrestle anywhere they want, thus find the best competition anywhere and everywhere. However, we're stuck within 300 miles of our own borders. Agree with you here. Indiana is probably in the 15-20 area. I have never held the opinion that we should class because it would necessarily make us better. It is my feelings that it would give more kids more exposure, thus more opportunites to continue their passion for wrestling at the next level. I also feel that it would smaller programs tangible goals they could use to build their programs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
awood1 Posted January 13, 2009 Share Posted January 13, 2009 The 40 match thing is a burr in the saddle of CA folks. I have tried to explain how IN does it and it makes a lot more sense to them. Here you will have the best kids "sitting out" conference duals and early season tnmts. to avoid using up all of their matches against "lesser" competition. Especially a lot of the better 160+ wrestlers that may be coming in late from football. They will hold of on wrestling at all until after the first of the year, while their other teammates serve as "interm" varsity guys while they hold out for the bigger tnmts. and better competition. CRAZY! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NickS Posted January 13, 2009 Share Posted January 13, 2009 It is my feelings that it would give more kids more exposure, thus more opportunites to continue their passion for wrestling at the next level. I also feel that it would smaller programs tangible goals they could use to build their programs. I'd be much more inclined to agree with you on giving kids more exposure if it wasn't for the fact that there is a 1) regular season and 2) an off-season. Kids have 4 years, not including middle school and elementary, to build their resumes for college scouts. So there is plenty of time and matches that can give wrestlers the exposure they need. You think that one or maybe two extra weeks of wrestling, which a class system is going to give smaller school kids, is going to have that much of an effect? I'm really not a class-hater, honestly. My belief is if it doesn't make you better, why move to a class system. I'm all for trying to keeping the system fresh. So what's your thoughts on my idea a few pages back. Breaking up the semi-states into 2 big schools and 2 small schools? You'd have half the state placers and semi-finalists guaranteed to small schools. Granted, the state champion ratio will probably be the same. But the exposure is definitely up at the state level compared to currently. You could do something similar in the Team Series. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KarlHungus Posted January 13, 2009 Share Posted January 13, 2009 It is my feelings that it would give more kids more exposure, thus more opportunites to continue their passion for wrestling at the next level. I also feel that it would smaller programs tangible goals they could use to build their programs. I'd be much more inclined to agree with you on giving kids more exposure if it wasn't for the fact that there is a 1) regular season and 2) an off-season. Kids have 4 years, not including middle school and elementary, to build their resumes for college scouts. So there is plenty of time and matches that can give wrestlers the exposure they need. You think that one or maybe two extra weeks of wrestling, which a class system is going to give smaller school kids, is going to have that much of an effect? I'm really not a class-hater, honestly. My belief is if it doesn't make you better, why move to a class system. I'm all for trying to keeping the system fresh. So what's your thoughts on my idea a few pages back. Breaking up the semi-states into 2 big schools and 2 small schools? You'd have half the state placers and semi-finalists guaranteed to small schools. Granted, the state champion ratio will probably be the same. But the exposure is definitely up at the state level compared to currently. You could do something similar in the Team Series. I understand your point about having the opportunity to wrestle in the off season and how that would help them with exposure. However, I have coached enough kids at small schools that are going all out in baseball or track in the spring and then football in the summer where spring and summer wrestling are just not a good option for them. If these 3 sport athletes had the opportunity to wrestle on the big stage earlier in their careers, college coaches that recruit would be able to see them earlier and contact them. I'm not talking about Big 10 type wrestlers here but places like Trine or Findlay or Wabash. Many 3 sport athletes I have coached honestly don't know what sport they want to compete in at college until late in their senior year. This is often too late to be seriously recruited by many colleges. I dont think a class system would have to last any longer. I don't believe it extends the season in other states. I know you are for keeping the system fresh, you and I have similar views on the weight class issues. I enjoy the back in forth. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NickS Posted January 13, 2009 Share Posted January 13, 2009 I dont think a class system would have to last any longer. I don't believe it extends the season in other states. I know you are for keeping the system fresh, you and I have similar views on the weight class issues. I enjoy the back in forth. What I mean by having another week of wrestling is... under the current system, a kid could get eliminated at semi-state or regionals. But under a classed system, he would advance to state. So he would get extra week(s) of wrestling. In reality, it's not that the series would last longer. It's that the small school kid would get to wrestle longer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KarlHungus Posted January 13, 2009 Share Posted January 13, 2009 On the semi-state idea i would have to look at it closer but it seems that it some quality wrestlers from bigger schools would be left out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NickS Posted January 13, 2009 Share Posted January 13, 2009 On the semi-state idea i would have to look at it closer but it seems that it some quality wrestlers from bigger schools would be left out. Hey, I'm trying to screw the big schools in favor of the little guys. I thought you would be all over that. ;D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chswrestler09 Posted January 13, 2009 Share Posted January 13, 2009 i know this forum is pretty much dead and some1 has probably already said all this but here it goes... winning state in indiana is something more than any other state. winning doesnt have anything to do with how big your school is it has to do with the heart and the determination someone puts in. At my school there was only two people who wrestled out of season for greco i was 130 and he was 285 so we both had no1 to practice with. but somehow we both made it to nationals??? so how is it we beat people that had tons of practice partners and a bunch of funding? we worked! our coach actually gave us the key to the room becuz we were asking to practice so much. Class wrestling would destroy everything indiana wrestling has to offer, and not only that but we would pretty much be slapping every previous state champ that made this states wrestling wat it is in the face... so boo me or w.e. you wanna do but thats my opinion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KarlHungus Posted January 13, 2009 Share Posted January 13, 2009 On the semi-state idea i would have to look at it closer but it seems that it some quality wrestlers from bigger schools would be left out. Hey, I'm trying to screw the big schools in favor of the little guys. I thought you would be all over that. ;D I'm a socialist...I want shiny medals, pretty ribbons and orange slices for everyone! ;D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Y2CJ41 Posted January 13, 2009 Share Posted January 13, 2009 i know this forum is pretty much dead and some1 has probably already said all this but here it goes... winning state in indiana is something more than any other state. winning doesnt have anything to do with how big your school is it has to do with the heart and the determination someone puts in. At my school there was only two people who wrestled out of season for greco i was 130 and he was 285 so we both had no1 to practice with. but somehow we both made it to nationals??? so how is it we beat people that had tons of practice partners and a bunch of funding? we worked! our coach actually gave us the key to the room becuz we were asking to practice so much. Class wrestling would destroy everything indiana wrestling has to offer, and not only that but we would pretty much be slapping every previous state champ that made this states wrestling wat it is in the face... so boo me or w.e. you wanna do but thats my opinion. So is adding 224 more semi-state qualifiers slapping the past semi-state qualifiers in the face? I was a semi-state qualifier in 1997 and to me its a slap in the face that they are watering down the semi-state level. You just have to win one match at regional this year to make it to semi-state, but when I was wrestling you had to win two matches. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fabio Jr. Posted January 13, 2009 Share Posted January 13, 2009 i know this forum is pretty much dead and some1 has probably already said all this but here it goes... winning state in indiana is something more than any other state. winning doesnt have anything to do with how big your school is it has to do with the heart and the determination someone puts in. At my school there was only two people who wrestled out of season for greco i was 130 and he was 285 so we both had no1 to practice with. but somehow we both made it to nationals??? so how is it we beat people that had tons of practice partners and a bunch of funding? we worked! our coach actually gave us the key to the room becuz we were asking to practice so much. Class wrestling would destroy everything indiana wrestling has to offer, and not only that but we would pretty much be slapping every previous state champ that made this states wrestling wat it is in the face... so boo me or w.e. you wanna do but thats my opinion. I A. never practiced grecco and B. never went to any tournies yet i would qualify for nationals, grecco in Indiana is like Folkstyle in Europe, barely anyone does it im sure if u ask anyone it would not slap them in the face its not like we are going to go back and change the results, sorry Josh Harper Since we changed format 2 years after you left, you are no longer a 3 (maybe 4) time state champion, you are now just a 3a or big school State Champ, for all you classless supporters good news, USA wrestling has eliminated its brand of classing, so that the true state champ can be found in each style at each weight, now the pee wees can wrestle jrs, and the cadets face the bantams, YAY Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
6minutes Posted January 14, 2009 Share Posted January 14, 2009 No dont bump this, it is never ending ;D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AJ Posted January 14, 2009 Share Posted January 14, 2009 bump it again so maybe it will get the same fate as the "bump" thread! (no, not by me) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NickS Posted January 14, 2009 Share Posted January 14, 2009 Hey this could be the site's first 20 page thread. Who'd of thought it would've involved class wrestling? Y2 will be proud!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
awood1 Posted January 14, 2009 Share Posted January 14, 2009 BUMP for bumps sake Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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