ENoblewrestling Posted January 9, 2009 Share Posted January 9, 2009 Just for fun, I know that alot of us have different opions about class wrestling, but if it were classed who do you guys think would win each class in the team tournament. I used the football classes and assuming that year-in and year out powerhouses like Catheral, Bellmont, and EVMD chose to wrestle in the biggest class here is what I think using a 5 class system. 1a South Adams 2a Garret or Delphi 3a Yorktown 4a EV. Reitz 5A Mishawaka who do you guys think would win a classed team tourny Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Y2CJ41 Posted January 9, 2009 Share Posted January 9, 2009 Pioneer and our class wrestling friend TSpray should be mentioned for class 1A Whitko beat Garrett and I believe Tipton has a pretty solid team for class 2A Hamilton Heights and Evanasville Memorial have good teams in 3A Westfield, Franklin, New Palestine should be mentioned in 4A Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
D-train Posted January 9, 2009 Share Posted January 9, 2009 5 CLASSES!!!! to be honest, i thought two were a stretch, but 5?!?! being a state champ in indiana would mean less than being a semi-state champ now. the upside is that i would have been a state placer i guess. i saw today that they were discussing adding another class to football. not really in favor of that either. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Y2CJ41 Posted January 9, 2009 Share Posted January 9, 2009 I could see five classes if they only classed the team side of things. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheAncientElder Posted January 9, 2009 Share Posted January 9, 2009 Here goes all of my Cool Points. Nothing like being 0-5, 0-6, or 0-7 and getting a State Championship medal!!!! TheAncientElder (TAE) The Imperial Potentate and Grand Poobah of Classless wrestling in Indiana. I wear my Fez with pride. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barrq Posted January 9, 2009 Share Posted January 9, 2009 Until the big schools come down to our level they will never understand. Just wait till Mishawaka has to wrestle the Big school of Fremont for the regional title and get beat then they will want class team state also : Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scout101 Posted January 9, 2009 Share Posted January 9, 2009 I agree. Lets just give everyone a state medal and never know who the best really is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tskin Posted January 9, 2009 Share Posted January 9, 2009 Personally I really don't see how a class system is a good thing. Others will disagree but I guess at my rip old age of 32 I am old school and think to be the best you must beat the best. And just talking to friends of mine that are basketball coaches they hate the class system and most are from middle of the pack enrollment size schools. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NickS Posted January 9, 2009 Share Posted January 9, 2009 Personally I really don't see how a class system is a good thing. It boils down to making money. Other than that, no impact. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
2016GrecoGold Posted January 10, 2009 Share Posted January 10, 2009 Would Perry Meridian be 4 or 5A? And at 3A don't forget about MD. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
justadadnow Posted January 10, 2009 Share Posted January 10, 2009 any way they want to do it, it should be the same for all team sports Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlueBolt Posted January 10, 2009 Share Posted January 10, 2009 Better yet...Let's have the State Finals in November and then wrestle the season! How about we give each wrestler a medal for making weight? Or maybe we could have each of the top two finishers in the individual State Tourney's parents wrestle to see if the wrestlers themselves are genetically worthy. My point is this, adding more "champions" just dilutes the accomplishments of the individuals and teams. A "Small" school has owned the Team Championship since it's introduction. They have "Loaned" it out a time or two just to take it back in short order. The argument for Classes would be MUCH more valid if this wasn't the case. For that matter, how would these "Classes" be determined? Number of kids in the school, or number of wrestlers in a wrestling room? I have seen schools field full Varsity, JV, and Freshmen teams when they have an enrollment 1/3 the size of a school that can barely fill a Varsity line up. The problem is there is no truly VALID argument for class wrestling given the history of the sport as we know it. Just my 2 cents. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rgray Posted January 11, 2009 Share Posted January 11, 2009 In this state if they have class wrestling there should be only 3 classes at the most then they should have a round robin for a true weight class champion Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NickS Posted January 11, 2009 Share Posted January 11, 2009 In this state if they have class wrestling there should be only 3 classes at the most then they should have a round robin for a true weight class champion I'm going to make it clear first off, I'm against a class system (at least for Indiana). But if we did something like you've suggested, what would be the point of breaking up into classes if there's going to be a true champion anyway? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
midget5589 Posted January 11, 2009 Share Posted January 11, 2009 Until the big schools come down to our level they will never understand. Just wait till Mishawaka has to wrestle the Big school of Fremont for the regional title and get beat then they will want class team state also : i think we're gonna be waiting for a long time Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Y2CJ41 Posted January 11, 2009 Share Posted January 11, 2009 Better yet...Let's have the State Finals in November and then wrestle the season! How about we give each wrestler a medal for making weight? Or maybe we could have each of the top two finishers in the individual State Tourney's parents wrestle to see if the wrestlers themselves are genetically worthy. My point is this, adding more "champions" just dilutes the accomplishments of the individuals and teams. A "Small" school has owned the Team Championship since it's introduction. They have "Loaned" it out a time or two just to take it back in short order. The argument for Classes would be MUCH more valid if this wasn't the case. For that matter, how would these "Classes" be determined? Number of kids in the school, or number of wrestlers in a wrestling room? I have seen schools field full Varsity, JV, and Freshmen teams when they have an enrollment 1/3 the size of a school that can barely fill a Varsity line up. The problem is there is no truly VALID argument for class wrestling given the history of the sport as we know it. Just my 2 cents. Why not just have one weight class then? Why can't the 103lbers wrestle against kids that weigh 280lbs? Its just size and that shouldn't matter, its about hard work, heart, technique and conditioning, isn't it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OldCoach Posted January 11, 2009 Share Posted January 11, 2009 Again I am amused at the replies regarding the thought of a class system for wrestling. I have seen how Iowa has done their class system over the years and it is fantastic. Of course they are divided into classes in all sports. Perhaps something Indiana should have done years ago. But they didn't. After looking at some of the comments, it reminds me of a time in Indiana when only the champion wrestler advanced out of the Sectional and Regional to compete in the State Finals. Another change followed that allowed the top two to advance. Again there was an outcry. How dare them make it easy to get to State. Yet, again another change was made to advance even the third place and add a Semi-State. Many thought at the time wrestling had stooped to an all time low in watering down the effects of being a true champion. I think the changes throughout the years have really added to the excitement of Indiana wrestling. I don't think Sheridan High School would think one moment about giving up the many state titles they have won in football because of a class system. How many would they have won without it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Y2CJ41 Posted January 11, 2009 Share Posted January 11, 2009 I'm sure you could ask any Bellmont fan about their state championship in football and what they think about not being a "true" football state champion. The kids honestly don't care that its a 3A title, they don't go around, saying "damn this sucks, we aren't the true champions." They celebrate it, because to them they are the true champions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KarlHungus Posted January 11, 2009 Share Posted January 11, 2009 Again I am amused at the replies regarding the thought of a class system for wrestling. I have seen how Iowa has done their class system over the years and it is fantastic. Of course they are divided into classes in all sports. Perhaps something Indiana should have done years ago. But they didn't. After looking at some of the comments, it reminds me of a time in Indiana when only the champion wrestler advanced out of the Sectional and Regional to compete in the State Finals. Another change followed that allowed the top two to advance. Again there was an outcry. How dare them make it easy to get to State. Yet, again another change was made to advance even the third place and add a Semi-State. Many thought at the time wrestling had stooped to an all time low in watering down the effects of being a true champion. I think the changes throughout the years have really added to the excitement of Indiana wrestling. I don't think Sheridan High School would think one moment about giving up the many state titles they have won in football because of a class system. How many would they have won without it? Welcome to the Klub Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pin2win1 Posted January 11, 2009 Share Posted January 11, 2009 Ok so here is where i am at...... Frankly i find the two main arguments given out as to why we should have class wrestling rather illogical. 1) We have the if more kids had a chance to make state or their team had a chance to win state then we would have a larger number of kids participating in High School wrestling than we do now, and thus we would find more talent. Frankly I find this argument untrue. If this were the case then I know Mishawaka would barely be able to field a football team. Mishawaka is a school that consistently has an enrollment of roughly 1600 students. They are one of the smallest 5A schools in Indiana and practically have little chance of making it to state under the current format. Not only are they guaranteed to not make it to state year in and year out (sorry fellow Cavemen grads and student but i am being truthful here) but they have no chance of winning an NIC championship because Penn (which i believe now more than doubles mishawaka in enrollment) wins the NIC every year. Mishawaka's only chance for the NIC crown is to hope that they do not play Penn in an NIC game that year (that happened in 1996 when they tied with Penn). Yet despite a snowballs chance, Mishawaka gets a decent amount of kids to come out for football. However, following the class argument, Mishawaka should be struggling to get 60 or 70 players a year. 2) We have the "if classes are not necessary, then lets have 103's wrestling the 285's. First off with that logic there is a safety issue with having a 103 wrestler wrestling a 285 pounder, I doubt there is a safety issue with a schol of 300 wrestling a school of 2000 plus. Next there is the fact that a wrestler on a team with 14 wrestlers is not at a dissadvantage to a wrestler on a team with 50 wrestlers, especially in today's age where wrestlers go to open rooms at different schools throughout the entire year. Therefore how does a schools size matter for the success of one individual when he is the only one out on the mat? Last I knew each individual match was a competition between one person and another person. Thats just my two cents on the issue. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Y2CJ41 Posted January 11, 2009 Share Posted January 11, 2009 2) We have the "if classes are not necessary, then lets have 103's wrestling the 285's. First off with that logic there is a safety issue with having a 103 wrestler wrestling a 285 pounder, I doubt there is a safety issue with a schol of 300 wrestling a school of 2000 plus. Next there is the fact that a wrestler on a team with 14 wrestlers is not at a dissadvantage to a wrestler on a team with 50 wrestlers, especially in today's age where wrestlers go to open rooms at different schools throughout the entire year. Therefore how does a schools size matter for the success of one individual when he is the only one out on the mat? Last I knew each individual match was a competition between one person and another person. Thats just my two cents on the issue. Before I go off on a long typical Y2 rant I will say this about that comment. It is a tongue in cheek comment directly related to the "just give everyone a ribbon" response by anti-class supporters. The fact remains that single class supporters keep saying "size doesn't matter," but yet its not logical to say size doesn't matter when you consider a 100lb kid vs. a 200lb kid. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AJ Posted January 11, 2009 Share Posted January 11, 2009 This topic usually ends up with absurd rants. The official thread question is very interesting, and if we could come up with an "official" way to class teams for this thread, I think it could become a very interesting thread. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pin2win1 Posted January 11, 2009 Share Posted January 11, 2009 Before I go off on a long typical Y2 rant I will say this about that comment. It is a tongue in cheek comment directly related to the "just give everyone a ribbon" response by anti-class supporters. The fact remains that single class supporters keep saying "size doesn't matter," but yet its not logical to say size doesn't matter when you consider a 100lb kid vs. a 200lb kid. Well in some things size doesn't matter, but in other things size does matter (insert crude immature joke here if you wish). Truth is comparing enrollment size to weight size is like comparing apples to oranges. Need an example well here is one a nickle is bigger than a dime, yet a dime has more spending power, or how about a rock 3 inches in diamater as compared to foam painted like a rock that is 8 inches in diameter, from the outside the foam looks like it could do more damage if it were thrown at someone but we all know that is false. My thought is that in a sport like wrestling, there is a size factor when it comes to the team portion of the tourney, but when it comes to the individual aspect then size becomes an excuse. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Y2CJ41 Posted January 11, 2009 Share Posted January 11, 2009 Then tell me the reasons why 75% of the state qualifiers the past 11 years were from big schools? I'm curious as to why there is such a discrepancy when they are all supposed to be equal? The reasons I have heard are that the big school kids work harder and thats about it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
naco228 Posted January 11, 2009 Share Posted January 11, 2009 Then tell me the reasons why 75% of the state qualifiers the past 11 years were from big schools? I'm curious as to why there is such a discrepancy when they are all supposed to be equal? The reasons I have heard are that the big school kids work harder and thats about it. well i think if you look at it, the reason why larger schools are more succesfull is becuz they have more room for talent. Penn is THE sports school. They are above average or better in nearly every sport. Why? Becuz they have over 4000 kids, so that leaves more room for talent Now for schools like Mishawaka, who only has like 16-1700, they are one of the special ones becuz they have such an excellent wrestling program. Also, they are the only school in their corp. So they can get the money funded to them to help em out. Now the South Bend schools corporation has over 30 schools, including 4 high schools. Riley is obviously the best out of the rest of us. But SB Adams is the largest of the 4. Yet we arent the best. Since Riley has the better program, most middle schools wrestlers will go there, also South Bend may fund their program more money. Adams get money for football (no idea why) Basically, the bigger your school, the more talent you can produce. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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