CombatSpeed Posted December 18, 2008 Share Posted December 18, 2008 Cashe Quiroga (who is an AMAZING wrestler, by the way...) is supposedly the No. 1 P4P wrestler in Indiana right now (according to the P4P rankings on this site.) when on the Home Page of this site there is an interview with Cashe where he states Josh Harper was he greatest competition in High School thus far due to the fact the The Harp defeated him four times....No love for Harp? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
royboy74 Posted December 18, 2008 Share Posted December 18, 2008 I am thinking he gets alot of flair points from the people voting on this because of his aggressive and entertaining style of wrestling plus the fact that he likes to bump up weight classes to face the best possible opponents in order to make himself the best wrestler he can be. Plus he's kind of good. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Y2CJ41 Posted December 18, 2008 Share Posted December 18, 2008 I'm gonna play the devil's advocate and ask you why Harper should be higher when he has not placed at any national tournaments? Inside the Indiana border he is a stud, but outside the border he has not had the same success as Brandon Wright, Camdem Eppert, Cashe Quiroga or even kids that are relative unknowns such as Zac McCray or Drake Stein. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NickS Posted December 18, 2008 Share Posted December 18, 2008 I'm gonna play the devil's advocate and ask you why Harper should be higher when he has not placed at any national tournaments? Inside the Indiana border he is a stud, but outside the border he has not had the same success as Brandon Wright, Camdem Eppert, Cashe Quiroga or even kids that are relative unknowns such as Zac McCray or Drake Stein. I'd agree with this line of thinking of they hadn't had any or recent head-to-head matches. But Cashe said they've wrestled eachother every year and Harper has beaten him everytime. I have to believe that this, plus the 3 to 1 state title ratio, has to trump national success. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Y2CJ41 Posted December 18, 2008 Share Posted December 18, 2008 I'm gonna play the devil's advocate and ask you why Harper should be higher when he has not placed at any national tournaments? Inside the Indiana border he is a stud, but outside the border he has not had the same success as Brandon Wright, Camdem Eppert, Cashe Quiroga or even kids that are relative unknowns such as Zac McCray or Drake Stein. If in-state success is more important, then why did one of my wrestlers that placed at Fargo who is currently only a 2X regional qualifier get a letter from IU, while a state qualifier didn't get anything? Both kids were sophomores last year and one did better in the state tournament, while the other placed at a national tournament. I'd agree with this line of thinking of they hadn't had any or recent head-to-head matches. But Cashe said they've wrestled eachother every year and Harper has beaten him everytime. I have to believe that this, plus the 3 to 1 state title ratio, has to trump national success. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AJ Posted December 18, 2008 Share Posted December 18, 2008 Right now Cashe is the better wrestler pound for pound. Harper has been injured and limited to some capacity. When Harper is back full go, maybe you might see some sentiment change in Harper's favor. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NickS Posted December 18, 2008 Share Posted December 18, 2008 If in-state success is more important, then why did one of my wrestlers that placed at Fargo who is currently only a 2X regional qualifier get a letter from IU, while a state qualifier didn't get anything? Both kids were sophomores last year and one did better in the state tournament, while the other placed at a national tournament. If you were IU, would you take Cashe over Harper knowing Harper has had his number everytime? I don't necessarily believe that in-state success is more important, per se. But we do have the luxury of having multiple head-to-head matches to look at, and everytime they've gone to Harper. However, I will say that if Cashe would've been a 140 lber, had never wrestled Harper, and with the same credentials. I could understand the argument a little more for Cashe. Just curious, how much more national success has Cashe had over Harper? I'm really curious because I don't know. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KarlHungus Posted December 18, 2008 Share Posted December 18, 2008 I noticed Cashe is seeded for the Marion Co. meet at 130. Perhaps he plans on being at 130 over the holidays and will meet Harper again at Al Smith. Regardless, that is the entertainment of the message board. We get to complain, debate and argue about these things. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cewrestlingfan Posted December 18, 2008 Share Posted December 18, 2008 Let me start by saying that I am a Josh Harper fan and I believe he will win his 4th state title this year. That being said, he had his opportunity to wrestle Cashe, Wright and Tsirtsis last weekend and for whatever reason he and his coach decided it was best or not necessary to wrestle those guys. On the other hand Cashe did wrestle those guys and he beat them. I think that is the biggest reason that Cashe is right now considered the #1 pound for pound wrestler in Indiana. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NickS Posted December 18, 2008 Share Posted December 18, 2008 Let me start by saying that I am a Josh Harper fan and I believe he will win his 4th state title this year. That being said, he had his opportunity to wrestle Cashe, Wright and Tsirtsis last weekend and for whatever reason he and his coach decided it was best or not necessary to wrestle those guys. On the other hand Cash did wrestle those guys and he beat them. I think that is biggest reason that Cashe is right now considered the #1 pound for pound wrestler in Indiana. Does one weekend of wrestling override a whole high school career when determining the better wrestler? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cewrestlingfan Posted December 18, 2008 Share Posted December 18, 2008 I said right now. In a few weeks that may or may not change. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Y2CJ41 Posted December 18, 2008 Share Posted December 18, 2008 Quiroga Quality Wins Eppert (this year's win when Eppert bumped up made series 3-2) Wright 1-1 vs Brooks Biggest win might be VINNY DELLAFAVE (4th place) from NJ at Fargo. Tsirtsis 8th NHSCA juniors Harper Quality Wins Brooks Quiroga March Only national placement has been at USAW Folkstyle Nationals Harper lost to New Jersey 5th place finisher Jordan Beverly by major decision at the Scholastic Duals Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CE Fisher Posted December 18, 2008 Share Posted December 18, 2008 I don't think you can determine the best pound for pound wrestler this season by only looking at past successes. It should be a clean slate at the beginning of the year. Looking at the past and not what is happening this season doesn't give these guys credit for the improvments they made in the offseason. Just because Harper has won their previous meetings, doesn't mean that Cashe hasn't closed the gap or maybe even passed him this year. Cashe has the better wins this season so far. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CombatSpeed Posted December 18, 2008 Author Share Posted December 18, 2008 It's almost as if Cashe is "Oklahoma" and Harp is "Texas" haha Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ice135 Posted December 18, 2008 Share Posted December 18, 2008 I also agree that Harper will be the next four timer for Indiana, but right now I would have to say that Quiroga has looked tough this year and has had better competition. It is still early in the season, and anything can happen. Possibly the Al Smith invite could provide some clarity in this department. One of the toughest tournaments in the state. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dingo Brigade Posted December 18, 2008 Share Posted December 18, 2008 No one is badmouthing Harper. I think he'll win #4 this year, somehow some way. However, to me P4P is all about right now. Quiroga, in addition to all the accomplishments listed by Y2, also had a fantastic go-round at Brute Scholastic Duals this past summer, going undefeated. Harper lost twice at the Duals. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Dough-Boy101 Posted December 18, 2008 Share Posted December 18, 2008 Josh Harper is one of the Most Highly Decorated wrestlers in IHSAA history. He should be number one, but I honestly don't think it matters one bit. So what if Harper doesn't have alot of National expierence or success, he'll still build off his success in high school and bring it into college. Good luck this year Josh, and Kick some butt at MSU. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Regionrat1 Posted December 18, 2008 Share Posted December 18, 2008 Harper is a solid wrasler no doubt/ but his style is kinda boring/ don't see allot of big moves or flashy takedowns/ he throws da legs in rides deem out and turns deem. To me its kinda like watchin a MMA dat day spend 12 out of 15 minutes on da ground. But one thing is dat what he is doin is wining matches. I wish da guy da best of luck up dare michigan state. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gnome Posted December 20, 2008 Share Posted December 20, 2008 I hope the fake "regionrat" was the one who put Mishawaka in "da region" because anyone from that part of the state knows Mishawaka is not in "da region". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coops99 Posted December 20, 2008 Share Posted December 20, 2008 I hope the fake "regionrat" was the one who put Mishawaka in "da region" because anyone from that part of the state knows Mishawaka is not in "da region". BINGO Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ntc513 Posted December 20, 2008 Share Posted December 20, 2008 Cashe Quiroga (who is an AMAZING wrestler, by the way...) is supposedly the No. 1 P4P wrestler in Indiana right now (according to the P4P rankings on this site.) when on the Home Page of this site there is an interview with Cashe where he states Josh Harper was he greatest competition in High School thus far due to the fact the The Harp defeated him four times....No love for Harp? in the grand scheme of things...does it really matter? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CombatSpeed Posted December 20, 2008 Author Share Posted December 20, 2008 In the grand scheme of things....No, not at all haha...but that's why we have discussion boards Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SpiderMonkey Posted December 21, 2008 Share Posted December 21, 2008 Well the answer to that is because Cashe has just as many State titles. Well I guess you are wondering how? Simple. Cashe has the one he won Last year and one he took from Eppert and one he took from Wright, which adds up to Three! See and thats how you determine best p4p wrestler. Harper is proven and will be right there for his 4th title, but remember there are no defending state champions only returning State Champions. In others words, nobody can take your past one(s) away but they can deny you of another. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oddsmaker Posted December 22, 2008 Share Posted December 22, 2008 I would expand on Harper's 'quality' wins as multiple vs. Brooks, multiple vs. Quiroga, Eppert, McMurray, multiple vs. Porras, March. Fairly impressive list, 3 State Championships and 4 Runners-Up among that group. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts