purdue02

Crown Point going undefeated on Friday morning (Except for 285) is huge.  They won all the 50/50 matches.

Cathedral does what Cathedral does.

Gunnar Henry with a solid win over a tough Hunter Page. 

Well, none of the FLO cameras are live yet!  At least can see that wrestling has started on Trackwrestling dashboard
 

State is always wild, and the perfect state bracket is more impossible than a perfect March madness bracket. So I decided to do a coin flip pickem along with my usual pickem. I followed a few rules, because straight up coin flip was way too chaotic. First, I put Seltzer, Mendez, and Carroll into the finals. Those aren't changing. So heads is the top man, tails the bottom man on the bracket. True tossups were a straight one shot coin flip. If I deemed someone as a favorite, than the underdog had to win two coin flips in a row. So say, I get tails for Jackson Ingenito vs Gabe Sollars. The next flip would have to be tails for me to pick Ingenito. Heads would auto put Sollars moving on. And in that specific scenario, I did have Ingenito pulling the upset, and to appease the coin flips rulers, I flipped several more times and continued getting tails. So here are my picks, and honestly feels like a standard chaotic state bracket. Definitely some longshots, but I'm still interested to see how much better this bracket plays out than my actual pickems. Thoughts? 
 

106   1st Jake Hockaday Brownsburg 2nd Gavin Jendreas Crown Point 3rd Luke Rioux Avon 4th E'Shawn Tolbert Portage 5th Jeffrey Bailey River Forest 6th Oliver Wilson North Central 7th Jalen May Peru 8th Nathan Smith Southport     113   1st Preston Haines Brownsburg 2nd Ashton Jackson LaPorte 3rd Tanner Tishner Western 4th Wyatt Davis Rochester 5th Evan Dickey Cathedral 6th Gavin Thompson Carmel 7th Evan Seng Evansville Mater Dei 8th Trevor Schammert Hobart     120   1st Isaac Ruble Bellmont 2nd Noah Lykins Columbus East 3rd Hayden Brady Garrett 4th Lane Gilbert Sullivan 5th Hayden DeMarco Chesterton 6th Christopher Bohn Munster 7th Kyrell Leavell Warren Central 8th Toby Billerman Perry Meridian     126   1st KT Nelson Castle 2nd Isaac Ward Carmel 3rd Matteo Vargo Penn 4th Keaton Morton Perry Meridian 5th Joey Buttler Whiteland 6th Braden Haines Brownsburg 7th Aidan Sprague East Noble 8th Blake Wolf East Central     132   1st Zeke Seltzer Cathedral 2nd Dylan Stroud Manchester 3rd Anthony Bahl Crown Point 4th Cheaney Schoeff Avon 5th Landon Bertsch Bluffton 6th Wyatt Krejsa Center Grove 7th Elijah Anthony Frankfort 8th Bryce Denton Penn     138   1st Jesse Mendez Crown Point 2nd Cole Solomey Kankakkee Valley 3rd Gavin Garcia Brownsburg 4th Ashton Hayhurst Castle 5th Bryce Lowery Roncalli 6th Dillon Tuttle Delta 7th Cameron Clark Jay County 8th Julius Gerencser Daleville     145   1st Matthew Koontz Perry Meridian 2nd Aidan Torres Chesterton 3rd Toby Abbott Cowan 4th Hayden Watson Center Grove 5th Ben Miller Lakeland 6th Blaze Garcia Brownsburg 7th Nick Tattini Crown Point 8th Rider Searcy East Central     152   1st Delaney Ruhlman Bloomington South 2nd Sam Goin Crown Point 3rd Hunter May Evansville Mater Dei 4th Tyce DuPont Tell City 5th Aidan Costello Hobart 6th Kenneth Bisping Lowell 7th Nick Cicciarelli Brownsburg 8th Tyler Jones Warren Central     160   1st Kade Law Columbus East 2nd Duke Myers Bellmont 3rd Landon Boe Avon 4th Jared Landez Carroll 5th Logan Farnell Maconaquah 6th Chris Newman Mt Vernon Posey 7th Kaden Lone Northwood 8th Bradley Pittman Plymouth     170   1st Conner Svantner Valparaiso 2nd Ryan Cast Hamilton Southeastern 3rd Brody Baumann Evansville Mater Dei 4th Codei Khawaja Floyd Central 5th Landon Buchanan Jimtown 6th Aiden Farmer Evansville Memorial 7th Isaac Valdez Mishawaka 8th Brodie Porter Eastern Greentown     182   1st Orlando Cruz Crown Point 2nd Drake Buchanan Center Grove 3rd Luke Hansen Roncalli 4th De'Alcapon Veazy Snider 5th Reid Schroeder Southridge 6th Jake Simpson Hobart 7th Kooper Kinsler Delphi 8th Gunner Henry Brownsburg     195   1st Connor Barket West Lafayette 2nd Max Broom Hamilton Southeastern 3rd Aataveon Jordan Franklin Central 4th Will Clark Crown Point 5th Jacob Behm Fremont 6th Jackson Ingenito Daleville 7th Wyatt Willman North Posey 8th Samuel Saunders Terre Haute North     220   1st Christian Carroll New Prairie 2nd Jackson Weingart Cathedral 3rd Nathan Critchfield Evansville Mater Dei 4th Blake Heyerly Adams Central 5th Paul Clark Crown Point 6th Devin Kendrex Mt Vernon Fortville 7th Brady Beck Rochester 8th Kelton Farmer Evansville Memorial     285   1st Leighton Jones Brownsburg 2nd Jacob Johnson Franklin Community 3rd Ashton Hartwell Columbus East 4th Ian Clifford Columbia City 5th Hunter Whitenack New Prairie 6th Hunter Brahnam Frankton 7th Brayden Jellison Elkhart 8th Josh Clark New Haven

QUIT TALKING LETS SEE UR PICKS

*glass shatters and stone cold music starts playing. 
 
in walks general heavy hands!!
 
my god JR what is he doin hes got a steel chair look outt!! 

106 1 Jake Hockaday 2 Jalen May 3 Gavin Jendrens 4 Levi Johns   113 1 Tanner Tishner 2 Easton Doster 3 Preston Haines 4 Ashton Jackson   120 1 Isaac Ruble 2 Toby Billerman 3 Kyrel Leavell 4 Hayden Brady   126 1 Aidan Sprague 2 Logan Frazier 3 Blake Wolf 4 Joey Buttler   132 1 Zeke Seltzer 2 Dylan Stroud 3 Cheaney Schoeff 4 Landon Bertch   138 1 Jessie Mendez 2 Bryce Lowery 3 Gavin Garcia 4 Cameron Clark   145 1 Ben Miller 2 Matthew Koontz 3 Brody Arthur 4 Aidan Torres   152 1 Samuel Goin 2 Delaney Ruhlman 3 Mitchell Betz 4 Kody Glithero   160 1 J Conway 2 Charlie Euson 3 Cody Goodwin 4 Logan Farnel   170 1 Landon Buchana 2 Brodie Porter 3 Brody Baumann 4 Connor Svantner   182 1 Veazy 2 Gunner Henry 3 Orlando Cruz 4 Drake Buchanan   195 1 Connor Barket 2 Gabe Sollars 3 Gage DeMarco 4 Alex Deming   220 1 Christian Carroll 2 Blake Heyerly 3 Nate Critchfield 4 Tommy Morrill   285 1 Leighton Jones 2 Makhi Watts 3 Hunter Whitenack 4 Ashton Hartwel

Today at Evansville, Bray Emerine was out at 182.  This bumped McBee up to the 2 spot and Rose to the 3 spot.  McBee went from a Clay Martin ticket round match to a Gunnar Henry ticket round match.  Subsequently McBee loses in the ticket round, Rose qualifies for state beating Martin, and McBee has beaten Rose in back to back weekends.
 
I am not saying that McBee would have 100% beaten Martin and qualified for state but... he beat Rose the past 2 weekends and had earned that better opportunity.
 
Could there not be a rule in place, where when a guy is out... McBee can choose to go to the 2 spot or stay put?  Then Rose can choose to go to the 2 spot or stay put.  Then if both guys decide to stay put, they could just put the alternate in the 2 spot.
 
I just hate to see someone have their opportunity basically taken away by something that was out of their control.  Any thoughts?

Oh, you’re gonna fit in nicely here.

Overall
The rankings have been a staple of IndianaMat since day one. We have always prided ourselves in having accurate rankings throughout the season. This year Mike upped his game and went to 20 ranked wrestlers in November and December. Then in January upped it to the top 25. With 25 ranked wrestlers he was able to include a lot of what was previously on our watch list. This gave recognition to many more hard-working athletes. As with last year, there was quite a bit of uncertainty surrounding the season and we have made it this far with the rankings continuing to hold strong.
 
As always, we locked the rankings before sectional and let them ride. We do not update them based on draws or state series victories. This year Mike has outdone himself with 190 of the 224 wrestlers being ranked. For the first time ever, we had a perfect weight class! At 152lbs every state qualifier was ranked in the state. Another first this year is there are no Friday matches that do not include at least one ranked wrestler. In total, 78 of the 112 matches on Friday are between two ranked wrestlers.
 
We have our every popular brackets that are new and improved that include state and semi-state rankings in them. This year we have two sets, one with just state rankings and one with both semi-state and state rankings. 
 
Click here for the Info Center with links to download the brackets
 
Season by season ranked wrestlers advancing to state
*Note Mike Reiser took over the rankings in 2012
2022- 190
2021- 186
2020- 180
2019- 175
2018- 179
2017- 169
2016- 175
2015- 172
2014- 171
2013- 171
2012- 170
2011- 157
2010- 159
2009- 143
 
106lbs
*As of Wednesday Donnie Feeler has been replaced by Cameron Meier in this weight class
Number of Ranked Wrestlers Qualifying: 14
 
Unranked qualifiers:
Seth Aubin (Hobart) 
Cameron Meier (Bloomington South)
 
First round match-ups of ranked wrestlers:
#1 Jake Hockaday (Brownsburg) vs. #21 Tamir Halevi (Carmel)
#2 Jeffrey Bailey (River Forest) vs. #15 Ayden Bollinger (Delta)
#11 Julianna O'campo (New Haven) vs. #4 Gavin Jendreas (Crown Point)
#16 Heather Crull (Northeastern) vs. #5 Luke Rioux (Avon)
#6 Isaiah Schaefer (EV.  Mater Dei) vs. #13 Oliver Wilson (North Central)
#7 E'Shawn Tolbert (Portage) vs. #9 Levi Johns (Bluffton) 
 
113lbs
Number of Ranked Wrestlers Qualifying: 14
 
Unranked qualifiers:
Bowen Keith (Cowan)
Peter Nguyen (Guerin Catholic)
 
First round match-ups of ranked wrestlers:
#2 Evan Dickey (Cathedral) vs. #17 Dylan Bennett (Penn)
#7 Easton Doster (New Haven) vs. #4 Evan Seng (EV.  Mater Dei)
#14 Eddie Goss (Center Grove) vs. #5 Tanner Tishner (Western)
#6 Jackson Heaston (Indian Creek) vs. #13 Wyatt Davis (Rochester)
#10 Trevor Schammert (Hobart) vs. #18 Braden Getz (Roncalli)
#12 Johnny Cortez (Lake Central) vs. #16 Gavin Thompson (Carmel)

120lbs
Number of Ranked Wrestlers Qualifying: 12
 
Unranked qualifiers:
Dominic McFeeley (Cascade)
Guillermo Rivera (Lake Central)
Jared Dunn (Princeton)
Jayden Lewis (New Prairie)
 
First round match-ups of ranked wrestlers:
#2 Lane Gilbert (Sullivan) vs. #24 Elliott Cornewell (FW Bishop Dwenger)
#7 Noah Lykins (Columbus East) vs. #19 Neal Mosier (Delta)
#9 Christopher Bohn (Munster) vs. #13 Braxton Vest (Westfield) 
#10 Aden Reyes (Cathedral) vs. #5 Hayden DeMarco (Chesterton)
 
126lbs
Number of Ranked Wrestlers Qualifying: 14
 
Unranked qualifiers:
Gavin Cook (Adams Central)
Keegan Schlabach (Lakeland)
 
First round match-ups of ranked wrestlers:
#1 Logan Frazier (Crown Point) vs. #11 Keaton Morton (Perry Meridian)
#3 Aidan Sprague (East Noble) vs. #16 Michael Tharpe (Center Grove)
#5 Kamariyon Nelson (Castle) vs. #7 Tony Wood (Jay County)
#6 Blake Wolf (East Central) vs. #17 Beau Brabender (Mishawaka)
#12 Isaac Ward (Carmel) vs. #25 David Maldonado (Merrillville)
#14 Griffin Ingalls (Fishers) vs. #2 Matteo Vargo (Penn)
 
132lbs
Number of Ranked Wrestlers Qualifying: 13 
 
Unranked qualifiers:
Bryce Denton (Penn)
Eli Brooks (Whiteland)
Mason Stanley (Rensselaer Central)
 
First round match-ups of ranked wrestlers:
#2 Brady Ison (Brownsburg) vs. #6 Elijah Anthony (Frankfort)
#3 Cheaney Schoeff (Avon) vs. #11 Michael Major (Carmel)
#4 Anthony Bahl (Crown Point) vs. #24 Jasper Graber (Northridge)
#8 Brevan Thrine (New Castle) vs. #9 Wyatt Krejsa (Center Grove)
#10 Landon Bertsch (Bluffton) vs. #12 Zar Walker (Mishawaka)
 
138lbs
Number of Ranked Wrestlers Qualifying: 12
 
Unranked qualifiers:
Allan Maggard (Columbia City)
Evan Roudebush (Bloomington South)
Ike O'Neill (Westfield)
Lucas Clement (Merrillville) 
 
First round match-ups of ranked wrestlers:
#2 Cole Solomey (Kankakee Valley) vs. #5 Cash Turner (Edgewood)
#8 Carson Johnson (Mt.  Vernon (Fortville)) vs. #16 Cameron Clark (Jay County)
#11 Dillon Tuttle (Delta) vs. #12 Luke Gonzalez (Cathedral)
#18 Wesley Harper (Penn) vs. #4 Gavin Garcia (Brownsburg)
 
145lbs
Number of Ranked Wrestlers Qualifying: 11
 
Unranked qualifiers:
Brayden Baker (Garrett)
Denny Wendling (Frontier)
Gunnar Krause (Knox)
Nate Lommock (Terre Haute South)
Nayl Sbay (Carmel)
 
First round match-ups of ranked wrestlers:
#4 Brody Arthur (Oak Hill) vs. #6 Nick Tattini (Crown Point)
#7 Blaze Garcia (Brownsburg) vs. #11 Brac Hooper (Zionsville)
#9 Rider Searcy (East Central) vs. #13 Anfernee Oliver (Ben Davis)
 
152lbs
Number of Ranked Wrestlers Qualifying: 16
 
Unranked qualifiers:
None
 
First round match-ups of ranked wrestlers:
#1 Sam Goin (Crown Point) vs. #12 Corbin Walston (Lawrenceburg)
#2 Anthony Rinehart (Zionsville) vs. #20 Kenneth Bisping (Lowell)
#3 Delaney Ruhlman (Bloomington South) vs. #23 Austin Brickey (Carroll (FW))
#5 Hunter May (EV.  Mater Dei) vs. #4 Alex Currie (Adams Central)
#6 Tyler Jones (Warren Central) vs. #15 Tristen Hood (Harrison (WL))
#7 Kody Glithero (Roncalli) vs. #22 Aidan Costello (Hobart)
#10 Nick Cicciarelli (Brownsburg) vs. #17 Chase Leech (Garrett)
#13 Mitchell Betz (Western) vs. #14 Tyce DuPont (Tell City)
 
160lbs
Number of Ranked Wrestlers Qualifying: 15
 
Unranked qualifiers:
Zachary Huckaby (Perry Meridian)
 
First round match-ups of ranked wrestlers:
#1 J Conway (Floyd Central) vs. #22 Bradey Pittman (Plymouth)
#2 Kade Law (Columbus East) vs. #7 AJ Steenbeke (Penn)
#3 Cody Goodwin (Crown Point) vs. #9 Chris Newman (Mt. Vernon (Posey))
#4 Landon Boe (Avon) vs. #19 Caleb Carter (Merrillville)
#8 Duke Myers (Bellmont) vs. #17 Chase Wagner (Zionsville)
#11 Leo Calderon (Centerville) vs. #23 Jared Landez (Carroll (FW))
#13 Kaden Lone (NorthWood) vs. #16 Charlie Euson (East Central)
 
170lbs
Number of Ranked Wrestlers Qualifying: 14
 
Unranked qualifiers:
Braxton Russell (Delta)
Ethan Popp (Harrison (WL))
 
First round match-ups of ranked wrestlers:
#1 Brody Baumann (EV.  Mater Dei) vs. #16 Anthony Cashman (Warren Central)
#2 Codei Khawaja (Floyd Central) vs. #12 JJ Braun (Cathedral)
#5 Landon Buchanan (Jimtown) vs. #17 Jesse Herrera (Highland)
#6 Benjamin Phillips (Charlestown) vs. #7 Ryan Cast (Hamilton Southeastern)
#8 Eli Johnson (Norwell) vs. #22 Isaac Valdez (Mishawaka)
#9 Aiden Farmer (EV.  Memorial) vs. #25 Clifton Johnson (North Central)
 
182lbs
Number of Ranked Wrestlers Qualifying: 11
 
Unranked qualifiers:
Alex Rose (Terre Haute South)
David Nash (East Central)
Jaquan East (Kokomo)
Kooper Kinsler (Delphi)
Trey Tobias (NorthWood)
 
First round match-ups of ranked wrestlers:
#2 Orlando Cruz (Crown Point) vs. #20 Tommy Hannon (Bishop Chatard)
#5 Hunter Page (Monroe Central) vs. #9 Gunner Henry (Brownsburg)
#6 Jake Sues (Lake Central) vs. #10 Luke Hansen (Roncalli)
 
195lbs
Number of Ranked Wrestlers Qualifying: 15
 
Unranked qualifiers:
Armen Koltookian (Concord)
 
First round match-ups of ranked wrestlers:
#1 Gabe Sollars (EV.  Mater Dei) vs. #19 Jackson Ingenito (Daleville)
#2 John Purdy (Castle) vs. #8 Jacob Behm (Fremont)
#3 Connor Barket (West Lafayette) vs. #24 Ryan Bovard (East Central)
#4 Wyatt Willman (North Posey) vs. #14 Alex Deming (Rochester)
#5 Aataevon Jordan (Franklin Central) vs. #9 Christian Chavez (Mishawaka)
#6 Will Clark (Crown Point) vs. #18 Ronin Hammond (Perry Meridian)
#7 Gage DeMarco (Chesterton) vs. #17 Max Broom (Hamilton Southeastern)
 
220lbs
Number of Ranked Wrestlers Qualifying: 14
 
Unranked qualifiers:
Jackson Weingart (Cathedral)
Justin Lewis (Roncalli)
 
First round match-ups of ranked wrestlers:
#1 Christian Carroll (New Prairie) vs. #24 Royce Deckard III (Center Grove)
#2 Nathan Critchfield (EV.  Mater Dei) vs. #15 Jordan Cree (Rensselaer Central)
#3 Juan Grange (Penn) vs. #7 Kelton Farmer (EV.  Memorial)
#4 Blake Heyerly (Adams Central) vs. #16 Jacob Long (Noblesville)
#5 Tommy Morrill (Columbus East) vs. #10 Paul Clark (Crown Point)
#17 Chance Harris (FW Concordia) vs. #22 Devin Kendrex (Mt.  Vernon (Fortville))
 
285lbs
Number of Ranked Wrestlers Qualifying: 14
 
Unranked qualifiers:
Josh Clark (New Haven)
Liam Begley (Crown Point)
 
First round match-ups of ranked wrestlers:
#2 Hunter Whitenack (New Prairie) vs. #8 Nate Johnson (Center Grove)
#5 Jacob Johnson (Franklin Community) vs. #14 Theodore Sparks (Merrillville)
#6 Mihail Platonov (Westfield) vs. #20 Ian Clifford (Columbia City)
#7 Ashton Hartwell (Columbus East) vs. #15 Trey White (Portage)
#9 Makhi Watts (North Central) vs. #13 Brayden Jellison (Elkhart)
#10 Marshall Fishback (Rochester) vs. #17 Hunter Brahnam (Frankton)
 

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Looks to me, if Buchanan doesn't choose bottom, he's pretty much in control.  No video available on TW/Flo, but this at least answers some of the questions.
 

Today at Evansville, Bray Emerine was out at 182.  This bumped McBee up to the 2 spot and Rose to the 3 spot.  McBee went from a Clay Martin ticket round match to a Gunnar Henry ticket round match.  Subsequently McBee loses in the ticket round, Rose qualifies for state beating Martin, and McBee has beaten Rose in back to back weekends.
 
I am not saying that McBee would have 100% beaten Martin and qualified for state but... he beat Rose the past 2 weekends and had earned that better opportunity.
 
Could there not be a rule in place, where when a guy is out... McBee can choose to go to the 2 spot or stay put?  Then Rose can choose to go to the 2 spot or stay put.  Then if both guys decide to stay put, they could just put the alternate in the 2 spot.
 
I just hate to see someone have their opportunity basically taken away by something that was out of their control.  Any thoughts?

Rochester is taking 4, most in school history. Three of them are underclassman!

Adams Central is taking 4 tying the 1990 team for  second most to advance.

Delta is taking 4!
Most in 25 years (1997)

Today at Evansville, Bray Emerine was out at 182.  This bumped McBee up to the 2 spot and Rose to the 3 spot.  McBee went from a Clay Martin ticket round match to a Gunnar Henry ticket round match.  Subsequently McBee loses in the ticket round, Rose qualifies for state beating Martin, and McBee has beaten Rose in back to back weekends.
 
I am not saying that McBee would have 100% beaten Martin and qualified for state but... he beat Rose the past 2 weekends and had earned that better opportunity.
 
Could there not be a rule in place, where when a guy is out... McBee can choose to go to the 2 spot or stay put?  Then Rose can choose to go to the 2 spot or stay put.  Then if both guys decide to stay put, they could just put the alternate in the 2 spot.
 
I just hate to see someone have their opportunity basically taken away by something that was out of their control.  Any thoughts?

Joel Kennedy Monroe Central was similar at 220. Great running back and stud athlete. Came out as a senior and ended up ranked and lost in a last second barn burner to the guy who got third. Agree, it’s really only a thing at upper weights where strength and athleticism goes farther than lower weights. 

Only can happen at heavier weights. Just saying. Don’t hate the messenger. Prove me wrong if you can.

Headlock v Fatmans Roll
 
Who had the better day?? Both came out of no where and took out the #1 in their semi state.
 
 

Heading into the semi state championship Carroll has been on the mat for 40 seconds combined in his 3 matches.

Today at Evansville, Bray Emerine was out at 182.  This bumped McBee up to the 2 spot and Rose to the 3 spot.  McBee went from a Clay Martin ticket round match to a Gunnar Henry ticket round match.  Subsequently McBee loses in the ticket round, Rose qualifies for state beating Martin, and McBee has beaten Rose in back to back weekends.
 
I am not saying that McBee would have 100% beaten Martin and qualified for state but... he beat Rose the past 2 weekends and had earned that better opportunity.
 
Could there not be a rule in place, where when a guy is out... McBee can choose to go to the 2 spot or stay put?  Then Rose can choose to go to the 2 spot or stay put.  Then if both guys decide to stay put, they could just put the alternate in the 2 spot.
 
I just hate to see someone have their opportunity basically taken away by something that was out of their control.  Any thoughts?

It’s been a pleasure as a fan to watch you. I want to thank you for what you’ve contributed to Indiana wrestling and want to remind you that you are still a champion day in and day out regardless of how this season may have ended for you. You’ve got some of the greatest coaches in your corner who I know do a great job in not only making great wrestlers, but helping mold fine young men for society to have. So, I know without a doubt you’ll be one of those people we see down the line doing great things in life. I wish you the best and absolute good fortune in your next steps.

Glithero (Roncalli) over Rinehart (Zionsville) at 152 at NC 6-4 in TB

Today at Evansville, Bray Emerine was out at 182.  This bumped McBee up to the 2 spot and Rose to the 3 spot.  McBee went from a Clay Martin ticket round match to a Gunnar Henry ticket round match.  Subsequently McBee loses in the ticket round, Rose qualifies for state beating Martin, and McBee has beaten Rose in back to back weekends.
 
I am not saying that McBee would have 100% beaten Martin and qualified for state but... he beat Rose the past 2 weekends and had earned that better opportunity.
 
Could there not be a rule in place, where when a guy is out... McBee can choose to go to the 2 spot or stay put?  Then Rose can choose to go to the 2 spot or stay put.  Then if both guys decide to stay put, they could just put the alternate in the 2 spot.
 
I just hate to see someone have their opportunity basically taken away by something that was out of their control.  Any thoughts?