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Posts posted by gsmith58

  1. 9 minutes ago, ontherise219 said:


    If Seng is the MD 106, it will be a close match, but Zirkelbach has beaten him (Freestyle at least) in the past year.

  2. Amen. With the "Details" please. Scores are better than nothing, but the individual matches make it interesting.


    15 hours ago, Bigtoe19 said:

    Just wondering when the Coach's from this week are going to Post their Results??

    I am 1 that watches this site to keep up on what happens around the State in the

    Wrestling World. I fell there is going to be a lot of weight shuffling in the South. 

    So enter those duals and results for us Avid followers.  Thanks BT19


  3. 1 hour ago, Paycheck141 said:

    You might be able to go back that far on the IHSAA website under the archives

    There are also archived Yearbooks that go way back. They list results down to the sectional level, but I don't recall whether they have the full brackets at any level.

  4. 1 hour ago, Mattyb said:

    As far as being humiliated... why would you be humiliated from getting beat in a game or wrestling match. The fact that the kid went all out and will work to close the gap should be what we focus on (not trying to find someone easy to beat). Too much is being put on wins and loses. Not enough being focused on becoming a hard worker, good teammate, and baddass (win or lose). Yes.. badass. If a kid makes it through a wrestling season... They need to be told that they are a badass. 

    Its OK to lose matches. Make it fun and surround the program with like minded positive people. That's how we stop it. 

    I agree with the majority of your post. But, I do, however, know from simple observation, anecdotal as it may be, kids and parents do get humiliated and upset. We've all seen blow-ups at youth tourneys; getting tossed around by another human being is a pretty personal thing. And, not every parent grew up as a wrestler or even an athlete; nor do they all have the "fight through it" mental model.

    Having that life experience is good thing, and I am absolutely on point with you, but the gist here was about about retention and keeping them around so they learn that focus. I certainly know every kid has to go through it, all I am saying is when it happens they need more attention and awareness than the better or more experienced kids. And it doesn't always happen. And, retention in any context is built one person at a time.

    As an example, we both watch and admire coach Red and his remarkable energy. That guy makes it a point to get around to every kid in that room every single day (and nearly every drill or go). Every one of them gets a personal conversation and a little of his "love." He's a great example of what I mean.



    15 hours ago, casualwrestlingfan said:

    Another great point as the season seems to have too many supers/invitational events. Sports that create team/school rivalry events prosper more (football, basketball, some baseball). Sort of goes with my point of switching main focus of individuals to teams.

    To the retention point it would seem to me  2 to 5 youth athletes a year could be doable. I can think of a couple things that might help. I've noticed in multiple setting (clubs, camps, rooms, academies, tourneys, duals) that the lesser kids don't get the attention that the more experienced and gifted kids get. Hardly insightful, but I think its important if were talking about a handful of kids. I am not saying they are being ignored and getting no attention. What I am saying is they and their parents need 'way more' encouragement and 'way more' attention than the better more experienced kids.

    I know that is not natural in any sport, but I can't think of many sports that can be more difficult and "humiliating" for beginners and their parents. I can't tell you how many times I have had to talk first and second year (and sometime later) parents off the cliff during a tourney because some up and coming academy wizard took down, cut, took down, cut, etc, etc. their 11 year old beginner son. Its darn hard for everyone those first couple of years. That in itself does not encourage retention.

  6. 7 hours ago, Y2CJ41 said:

    It has all the other states in there, look at it. Indiana actually has a decent retention rate...but I wouldn't call 53% good. 

    My mistake. I missed the details. My next question is do they have that rate by state over time (don't tell me it's in the doc)? That would be informative.

    It appears that to me that we are at or near the top third and even within that group, for the most part, we are within a point or two. There are only 3 or 4 60+ states (more northerly, less hoops driven?) and within that upper third for the most part we're clustered within a 2 to 4% range. 

    I suppose that would be on average a retention of 2 to 4 more youth athletes/year or are you thinking something more dramatic? How much do you believe that rate could be realistically pushed?




  7. On 9/20/2019 at 9:19 AM, Galagore said:

    I agree that the best usually come from that group. What happens, though if we create an environment that allows for more growth at the youth level? Would we be able to increase the number of kids who identify themselves as wrestlers? That really is the key. When a kid looks in the mirror and sees a wrestler, that's when we keep them. And it doesn't really matter if they're great, average, or even not very good. They keep with it because it is part of who they are. I have seen plenty of kids who play basketball until high school is over, and are never very good. They just see basketball as part of their identity. If we open the door to more kids getting more mat time at the youth level, maybe we will get more wrestlers of all levels, which is necessary for the long-term health of the sport.

    I always enjoyed weeknight match ups. The more efficient the matches-up the better.

    The Ohio Tourney of Champions does it right (I know it's not completely applicable to local youth tourneys, but...); it's one period of a hybrid folkstyle/freestyle and they tell you when to show for your mat. The mat is only one or two weight classes/age groups, and you're on deck about every 15-20 minutes. It flyes. Having only one period helps.

    I might be showing my age, but the the more statistics & publicity posted about the athletes the better; (even at the youth and middle school level); online, in the rooms, in local papers, in the school publications, etc. Look how folks love the magazine and rankings on this site.

    How do you get more High School matches like Brownsburg and Avon? My son and I both love going because the atmosphere is similar to a high school basketball rivalry. Perry is similar. It's a lot of fun and it's something young kids enjoy particular when they know the wrestlers.

  8. 9 hours ago, Galagore said:

    "Nice try little fella, now get out of the way so we can see who the best 8-year-old is today."

    It's my observation that those little "ISWA" fella's become darn good wrestlers 8 years later (many start making the top of the ladder 1 to 2 years later). It's the kids that enter late middle school and freshman year that struggle a bit.

  9. 2 hours ago, JMILL said:

    I can provide you with my login information to view the videos for lets see.......  (IHPO entry fee $35, gas money for my son's ride up $20, lodging fee for my son Sat night $30, food and drinks during tourney $20, video stream $10) ..........  $115 sound good ????, awe heck lets split it as I am a nice guy ($57.50)   

    Hey people its called the free enterprise system and this stuff isn't cheap  !!!!   kidding

    Mr. Miller, I'm just shaking my head just like I used to do. Why is it always you...and you know what I mean.

  10. On 8/20/2019 at 1:50 PM, Sig40 said:

    106: Goin/Bahl
    113: Frazier/Goin
    120: Bettich/Frazier/Roberson
    126: Roberson/Tattini/Carter/Bettich
    132: Taylor/Mendez/Roberson/Tattini
    138: Mendez/Taylor/Tattini
    145: Goodwin/Cruz
    152: Cruz/Goodwin
    160: Willems/Hollendoner
    170: Hollendoner/Willems
    182: Taborski/Ayala
    195: McElroy/Ayala

    It appears to me their JV is going to be a Top 20.

  11. On 8/6/2019 at 10:56 AM, Champ725 said:

    I believe this years incoming class of 6th graders will be full of some top level talent including kids who have been wrestling for years in big tournaments. You have kids like Kyle Harden...

    I can say without any hesitation, Kyle would win well over 30 matches as a 106 right now. He is going to be a beast in High School.

  12. 12 hours ago, graham said:



    Dillon who???  Never heard of him ;)

    Yeah I saw Ocampo at GRR.  He looked tough. Last time I remember seeing him, he was smaller than Dillon, I think. 

    He was a shorter for sure, but he's been pretty muscular for few years even as a younger kid.

  13. On 7/24/2019 at 10:21 AM, graham said:

    Yeah when gsmith asked earlier in the thread if I had any input, this is why I said I will leave it to those who know better! 🤪

    You need to be promoting that Dillon Graham kid instead of monkeying around promoting Freshman. Seems that Graham kid has beaten several of the kids that made the list.

    On a related note have you seen the size of Mr. Ocampo? He used to be in my son's weight class for years. He's a tad bigger these days ;)


  14. On 3/23/2019 at 5:42 PM, Leftenant Luers said:

    I have a reason behind it.  I never was seeded in any tournament in high school. I won several invites. I wasn't seeded at conference my senior year because i dropped down 2 weights.  I won. I was seeded third at sectional. i defeated an undefeated foe in the finals. My son was seeded 4th at preseason nationals: He won. My history in the sport tells me seeds only matter if you think they do. to win you have to beat everyone anyways. I will go to the grave with that philosophy,

    I wouldn't disagree that cliches and anecdotes can be helpful motivation, but fact-based evidence is more important for actual results. Of course, upsets happen, but for every upset, there are tens, if not hundreds that that didn't happen. Upsets stick in our mind, because...well they're upsets...and less frequent. Seeds matter; otherwise they wouldn't be so prevalent across all sports.

    Pick any particular bracket, at say, the NCAA DI finals this year. Count up how many they got right and how many they got wrong. For example, look at the 125 bracket. I believe the higher seed won 28 of 29 matches. That's fact-based evidence.

  15. No, I wouldn't want that. It is what it is. I think your proposed jump is too drastic, and would simply reallocate, what you perceive, as 'unfairness.' I thought wrestling prided itself on being a level playing field where the outliers could compete.

    While there are no doubt a number of very good upperclass wrestlers sitting because of circumstances (Brownsburg, Perry, Mater Dei, etc), I would bet they're a number sitting simply because they have not put in the time and effort that their varsity counterpart has. 

    I am only pointing out it depends on your perspective, and asking you to recognize there are a number, not just my son, of smaller underclass wrestlers that have some talent, have put in as much, if not more, time and effort, and are equally deserving as any upperclass backup. And, I'm pretty certain that if one could to equalize weight, Cernus and Cotty could compete with, say, the HWT finalists.

    As far as cutting, you and I are of like mind, but I don't see that changing anytime soon.


    55 minutes ago, Rookies03 said:

    Think of it this way... suppose there was a proposed rule change to remove 138 and add 95 with the reasoning that we already have 132 and 145 and having a wt class in the middle was too much AND adding 95 would give more opportunities to smaller kids.  Would you be for this change?

    These are all big "What Ifs" so not a lot of reality of them happening but the lowest weight class has evolved from 98 to 103 to 106 because kids are getting bigger not smaller. I think kids cut too much weight (not all but some) and maybe this could help.  



  16. I have a small 106 son and so I'm, admittedly, biased and a bit prickly about this. Being that he's in a room(s) year-round, I'd sure like the idea of my son being able to compete against kids 'nearly' his size before he's a senior. 

    Not that I think it's a swell idea, but couldn't we apply this logic and similar 'generalization' to the heavyweight class?


    23 hours ago, Rookies03 said:

    So maybe I'm not explaining my view very well.  106 generally has one of the highest forfeit rates.  A lot of schools just try to find any kid who weighs less than 106 (usually a freshman who hasn't started growing yet) to get forfeits.  If we started at 113 and added a weight in the middle or upper weights now that Varsity spot would be filled by a bigger and in a lot of cases a more "varsity" ready athlete.  

    And to answer your questions...

    If they’re great, why throw them on jv? Not throwing them on JV.  If they are a JV level wrestler then yes they could be great at the JV level (maybe this is a philosophical difference as I don't see greatness measured in Ws and Ls but rather everything else gained from being a wrestler - hard work, dedication, sacrifice, discipline, etc.  You can achieve greatness in these areas without being a state placer or champ).  Putting a 100 lb kid with no muscle tone on varsity seems more like throwing them on varsity rather than throwing them on JV if they are truly JV caliber.

    Would you rather have guys like Cernus and Cottey on jv? No. They would most likely be on varsity just at 113.  They could cut less weight and I'm pretty sure they would still be great.  

    What I would really rather see is upper classman get more opportunities to be a varsity athlete.  100 lb freshman getting to be a varsity athlete because he is the only one that weighs less than 106 over a junior or senior who is a back up wrestler in the middle or upper weights but is still pretty good.  




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