gsmith58

Depending on Hammack's size at 106, I wouldn't be surprised to see him make a run. I think he is under the radar.

I would note there is a distinction between club/ISWA & academy/ISWA routes. Clubs are good for beginners and those wanting to get their son or daughters feet wet. Most clubs are seasonal, often running between October to May at the latest (assuming they wrestle the ISWA freestyle season). That said, the top high schools may have feeder programs going on year round (more like academies). They are the most cost effective and depending on the coach and club very good. Good clubs will produce very good wrestlers.

Academies run year round 3 to 4 days a week and cost around $80-$100/month. That doesn't mean athletes have to go year round, only that they are available. Some wrestlers take few months off or reduce the number of days they attend during baseball &/or football seasons. Wrestlers in those rooms range from beginner to High State champion. The rooms are focused and serious, but that isn't to say they aren't fun. There are lots of little guys just starting. If you decide that route and given your distance parameters, I would second julia2009's recommendation on CIA. They produce top notch wrestlers at all levels.

At every step from starting through High School you can see the distinction between beginner, elementary club/ISWA, starting at middle school & academy/ISWA before they ever step on the mat.

Conner Alcala (Decatur Central) 17-0 over #11 Sam Slivka (Roncalli) 14-1 (Dec 10-4)

51 minutes ago, Wrestling Scholar said:

Not that I care, but If you challenge the rankings then give us a detailed "tale of the tape" between Fishers and Southport.   Somebody needs to sell it. Not just a little snip-it.   Give "Decbell" some real info for the next ranking.

  

No, I'm not challenging or even remotely criticizing the rankings. It's certainly feasible that Fisher &/or Franklin Central would beat us in a dual, but they might not. 

What I have is what you see at the top of this post. I am sure there are defensible positions as to why Fishers and Franklin Central were ranked and we weren't. I'm just pointing out what I see, nothing more, nothing less. For all I know there are many deserving teams that should be considered above us (or above Fishers and Franklin Central).

The rankers do a great job, and I certainly understand you can't please everyone (sometimes anyone). This was not intended as a criticism of the rankers.

What I do know is where there is a lot of noise signal can go unseen.

29 minutes ago, bbulldog152 said:

This happened be cause we matched up better with the team we lost by 12. There's too many variables to base it off of common wins. Now if Southport beat a team that beat fishers they would have a good argument

I take your point and I agree in principle. However, that really only works if the ranking are quantifiable and objective measures; they aren't always. By what measures did Fishers and Franklin Central get ranked ahead of Southport? We've never wrestled them in a dual. There is a level of subjectivity involved and that's the fun. And for what it's worth, we received the trophy at New Castle, so someone used some type of criteria to award it to us over them. Just say'n 

Besides, I'm simply trying to get some visibility and to have folks take into consideration new information. It's about reducing uncertainty, not expecting certainty.

18 minutes ago, pritchem said:

Fishers and Southport were both at Hurrle on 11/23 and Fishers did finish ahead of Southport in points, although it is true that the two teams did not meet at every weight class. 

 

On the other hand, Southport did win more of the head-to-head matches where they did wrestle.   

 

Sounds like a great dual!  We could settle this at Bloomington South on Saturday!   Rumor has it there are only three schools competing.  

H!. I wish we could, but we have county, and the coach isn't particular inclined to my suggestions  

I know a number of the wrestlers on Fisher, they're good kids. I didn't and don't want my post to be misconstrued as maligning their accomplishments. I definitely root for your 106 through 126 whenever I can (except, of course, against our kids). Hey, they're all CIA alums.

Hey, you know you're doing alright when Franklin Community's Social Media Representative gives you a like  

I owe you one.

Okay, let me start off with four premises: 1) I'm a homer for Southport, 2) I'm not the person who posted about love for Southport & Franklin Central (but good for them), 3) I am fully aware Southport is not in Perry's constellation (or Brownsburg, MD, Warren, Roncalli, Franklin Community, etc), 4) And most importantly, I do not want to start a flame war.

That said, I noticed that Fishers and Franklin Central made the overall ranking at 19 and 20 (Fishers beat Franklin Central 35-32). And again, good for them. 

But, I want to point out that against common opponents at last weekend's New Castle Duals, Southport was the better of the two. Perhaps they were missing some wrestlers, but nevertheless the scores below might be instructive. I'm not trying to take anything away from Fishers or Franklin Central, but just asking for a measly point or two of consideration for Southport.

4 hours ago, Bigtoe19 said:

Hello All,  I am doing some research on some EVSS wrestler. I may have over looked or they may have Quit or not made Line-up

If you have knowledge , would enjoy hearing it. Thanks BT19

 

106) Neutzman- PField,   Tharpe- CG,   Bengtson- Bl. S.,   Milanes- Jasper,    Gentry- T.City

126) Greene- Mrsville,       132) Gordon- Col.E,    Polen- Gib. S,        138) Moore- Castle

145)  Holt- PField,    Bryant- Gib. S,      170)  Hoover- Gib. S                                                                 Thanks Again

I am going to take a wild stab and guess that Neutzman and Bengtson are nowhere near 106 these days, but I have seen stranger things.

Now where have I seen this before? 

2 hours ago, laserbeam26 said:

@MDFAN I guess Egli caught West. If this would of gone the whole match surely West would of won. That is how it goes correct? 

10 minutes ago, Cody Moll said:

Zirkelbach pinned Egli

Reed Egli? I hadn't seen his name for awhile.

How did the Seng (making an assumption) & Zirkelbach match come out?

9 minutes ago, ontherise219 said:

Agreed 

If Seng is the MD 106, it will be a close match, but Zirkelbach has beaten him (Freestyle at least) in the past year.

Amen. With the "Details" please. Scores are better than nothing, but the individual matches make it interesting.

15 hours ago, Bigtoe19 said:

Just wondering when the Coach's from this week are going to Post their Results??

I am 1 that watches this site to keep up on what happens around the State in the

Wrestling World. I fell there is going to be a lot of weight shuffling in the South. 

So enter those duals and results for us Avid followers.  Thanks BT19

On 11/25/2019 at 9:22 PM, Sig40 said:

Hmm, well then I see him placing this year as well. 

Gilbert will be a handful at 113.

Probably the weight class just above and the weight class just below your son...just say'n.

4 hours ago, Sig40 said:

138 and 160 look like they are pretty deep.

MScholar, you are so all over it.

Nice job. Thank you for doing this. How you find the time is beyond me.

One thing though, Haines has as much chance of making 113 as Ison does of 106. I'm taking odds now

Not saying he would have, but one could make a credible argument that he was a potential four timer (yes, I know Asa stood in his way).

I know it's not any consolation, but folks know just how good he is.

1 hour ago, Paycheck141 said:

You might be able to go back that far on the IHSAA website under the archives

There are also archived Yearbooks that go way back. They list results down to the sectional level, but I don't recall whether they have the full brackets at any level.

1 hour ago, Mattyb said:

As far as being humiliated... why would you be humiliated from getting beat in a game or wrestling match. The fact that the kid went all out and will work to close the gap should be what we focus on (not trying to find someone easy to beat). Too much is being put on wins and loses. Not enough being focused on becoming a hard worker, good teammate, and baddass (win or lose). Yes.. badass. If a kid makes it through a wrestling season... They need to be told that they are a badass. 

Its OK to lose matches. Make it fun and surround the program with like minded positive people. That's how we stop it. 

I agree with the majority of your post. But, I do, however, know from simple observation, anecdotal as it may be, kids and parents do get humiliated and upset. We've all seen blow-ups at youth tourneys; getting tossed around by another human being is a pretty personal thing. And, not every parent grew up as a wrestler or even an athlete; nor do they all have the "fight through it" mental model.

Having that life experience is good thing, and I am absolutely on point with you, but the gist here was about about retention and keeping them around so they learn that focus. I certainly know every kid has to go through it, all I am saying is when it happens they need more attention and awareness than the better or more experienced kids. And it doesn't always happen. And, retention in any context is built one person at a time.

As an example, we both watch and admire coach Red and his remarkable energy. That guy makes it a point to get around to every kid in that room every single day (and nearly every drill or go). Every one of them gets a personal conversation and a little of his "love." He's a great example of what I mean.

15 hours ago, casualwrestlingfan said:

Another great point as the season seems to have too many supers/invitational events. Sports that create team/school rivalry events prosper more (football, basketball, some baseball). Sort of goes with my point of switching main focus of individuals to teams.

To the retention point it would seem to me  2 to 5 youth athletes a year could be doable. I can think of a couple things that might help. I've noticed in multiple setting (clubs, camps, rooms, academies, tourneys, duals) that the lesser kids don't get the attention that the more experienced and gifted kids get. Hardly insightful, but I think its important if were talking about a handful of kids. I am not saying they are being ignored and getting no attention. What I am saying is they and their parents need 'way more' encouragement and 'way more' attention than the better more experienced kids.

I know that is not natural in any sport, but I can't think of many sports that can be more difficult and "humiliating" for beginners and their parents. I can't tell you how many times I have had to talk first and second year (and sometime later) parents off the cliff during a tourney because some up and coming academy wizard took down, cut, took down, cut, etc, etc. their 11 year old beginner son. Its darn hard for everyone those first couple of years. That in itself does not encourage retention.

7 hours ago, Y2CJ41 said:

It has all the other states in there, look at it. Indiana actually has a decent retention rate...but I wouldn't call 53% good. 

My mistake. I missed the details. My next question is do they have that rate by state over time (don't tell me it's in the doc)? That would be informative.

It appears that to me that we are at or near the top third and even within that group, for the most part, we are within a point or two. There are only 3 or 4 60+ states (more northerly, less hoops driven?) and within that upper third for the most part we're clustered within a 2 to 4% range. 

I suppose that would be on average a retention of 2 to 4 more youth athletes/year or are you thinking something more dramatic? How much do you believe that rate could be realistically pushed?

On 9/20/2019 at 9:19 AM, Galagore said:

I agree that the best usually come from that group. What happens, though if we create an environment that allows for more growth at the youth level? Would we be able to increase the number of kids who identify themselves as wrestlers? That really is the key. When a kid looks in the mirror and sees a wrestler, that's when we keep them. And it doesn't really matter if they're great, average, or even not very good. They keep with it because it is part of who they are. I have seen plenty of kids who play basketball until high school is over, and are never very good. They just see basketball as part of their identity. If we open the door to more kids getting more mat time at the youth level, maybe we will get more wrestlers of all levels, which is necessary for the long-term health of the sport.

I always enjoyed weeknight match ups. The more efficient the matches-up the better.

The Ohio Tourney of Champions does it right (I know it's not completely applicable to local youth tourneys, but...); it's one period of a hybrid folkstyle/freestyle and they tell you when to show for your mat. The mat is only one or two weight classes/age groups, and you're on deck about every 15-20 minutes. It flyes. Having only one period helps.

I might be showing my age, but the the more statistics & publicity posted about the athletes the better; (even at the youth and middle school level); online, in the rooms, in local papers, in the school publications, etc. Look how folks love the magazine and rankings on this site.

How do you get more High School matches like Brownsburg and Avon? My son and I both love going because the atmosphere is similar to a high school basketball rivalry. Perry is similar. It's a lot of fun and it's something young kids enjoy particular when they know the wrestlers.

On 9/20/2019 at 10:24 AM, Y2CJ41 said:

Youth wrestling has something like a 53% retention rate. Even though our membership numbers are rather equal from year to year, we have to replace almost half of the kids from year to year.

Here is the report with the retention rates
http://content.themat.com/2016-17annualreport.pdf

Do we have in state comparison data?