grappleapple

I don't think the spladle should be banned,   but the crotch section of the new singlets need to be reinforced so when somebody is put into the spladle,  we don't have any embarrassing situations.

Who would win in a rematch, Lee or Red? What was the coolest singlet in the finals? Where did you eat at state? Which Tsirtsis is better? Could Y2 cut to 195 and fill in for Rypel at Pennsylvania if he had to?
Should the spladle be banned? Should the singlet be changed?
All of these I ask solely for the purpose of not having another class wrestling discussion.

Who would win in a rematch, Lee or Red? What was the coolest singlet in the finals? Where did you eat at state? Which Tsirtsis is better? Could Y2 cut to 195 and fill in for Rypel at Pennsylvania if he had to?
Should the spladle be banned? Should the singlet be changed?
All of these I ask solely for the purpose of not having another class wrestling discussion.

They also suggested winning a single class title held more weight. Uh oh, add another server to the system to handle the debate.

We've taken our team to the iron sharpens iron camp in Iowa and Illinois for the last 3 summers. Every year that we've checked in, we're asked the same question: how many state qualifiers and state champs did you bring? Greensburg is by no means a powerhouse, but we send 6 or so guys to semistate every year here recently. We haven't had a qualifier since 2008 though.
 
During the dual meet portion of the camp, coaches try to match the wrestlers up evenly. And it always seems like there is a coach from Kansas or Nebraska or somewhere else with class wrestling that is frustrated that their team full of state qualifiers has to waste it's time matching up with all of our regional and semistate guys. Then they come to find out that the indiana state tournament series is an absolute buzz saw. We once had a jv heavyweight absolutely run a train on a state qualifier from Kansas.
 
These experiences with teams from other states have really openedy eyes to both sides of the class argument. On the pro-class side, I totally see where a classed individual tournament would help improve the national exposure of Indiana wrestlers who may not be D1 material, but more than capable of going to a smaller program and competing. But on the single class side, I'd hate to give up that level of achievement that comes from being a qualifier or placer in our state. That isn't to say that being a qualifier/placer/champ in a class system wouldn't be an achievement.
 
I think the better compromise would be to find a way to allow 5th/6th placers to advance to state and give semistate finalists a first round bye. That in itself presents its own challenges as far as logistics and will surely rile up the "why don't you just give everyone a trophy" crowd, but I think that would be the best compromise between the 2 sides

Some of these epic matches, major rivalries, and legendary videos seem like they could be the makings of a nice set of future webpage articles. "The Story Behind The Match" Series. Love hearing the background information that build up to the matches and I'm sure their are some good first hand accounts from some people that were close to the action.

I'm not sure I'd call Campbell the underdog. I think they were both pretty darn equal.

This is why I am a huge fan of classed team state. Just not classed individual state.

Yes - why?
 
I have witnessed on multiple occasion kids that weren't varsity level at a larger school, going to a neighboring small school in order to make varsity. I don't see this point as being anything unbelievable. Am I missing something?

I get tired of these "lack of class" posts. The kid was probably the most excited he's ever been in his life. He has had to read for months how he was going to lose. The crowd chanted his opponents name. He was put flat on his back yet he bounced back. He overcame a hostile environment, an opponent that is one of the best in the nation and became a four time champ with an undefeated career in the process. Part of his success has always been his swag. It's not classless - it's just different from the norm. I for one love it that he is a free spirit that doesn't feel like he has to say all the right answers. He won, he silenced the doubters and he went out his way.

When figuring the percentage of kids that reach the state finals from different sized schools, it does show a disadvantage to the small schools. But when you figure the number of students these schools have - I would guess that might alter things.
For instance, and this is hypothetical because I haven't done the research - but say Blue River, a school with a senior class of around 50, has four wrestlers (which it does). Those four wrestlers are going to automatically qualify for sectionals, and have a shot at advancing further.
On the opposite end of the spectrum, you have a Warren Central with 3,685 students (922 per class). They have 14 wrestlers on varsity, and several wrestlers on the JV team not able to crack the varsity lineup. Those JV guys don't get to compete in sectional and have no shot at going to state. So Blue River, with its four wrestlers, at least gets a chance whereas the majority of kids in a vastly bigger school does not.
So by classing state, Blue River will still get its four wrestlers in the tournament. But Warren Central still has upwards of 40 plus wrestlers that get no shot at competing in the tournament.
I'd argue that small schools have a slight advantage in that regard. They get to be varsity wrestlers and can compete in the state tournament, whereas good wrestlers at larger schools have to first crack the varsity lineup to even have a shot.

I think it's safe to say that this year's finals did not cause any change of hearts. Sorry for starting another class debate.

No, but it seems with record attendance at state, and wrestling being at an all-time high as far as interest that I can see, I was wondering if that changes anything at all. Not saying it does - I've never been on team class wrestling, but for those that are I didn't know if this would make a difference. I wouldn't trade the atmosphere this year at state for anything. It was awesome.

As much as I hate to bring this up and possibly start yet another class wrestling conversation - I'm curious to hear if this year's finals, particularly the Red vs. Lee showdown, has proven to anyone that our system is pretty darn good as it is? The argument for class wrestling was to get more people interested in the sport. I think this match, in itself, did that remarkably well. I can't tell you how many people I've had come up to me, that really don't follow wrestling at all, asking about what that match was like. People see the videos posted of it. Kids were asking the wrestlers for their autographs. In my opinion, if there was ever an argument over our state's finals being classed or not, this seals the deal in favor of keeping it the same.

God bless you I have been looking everywhere for this

i owe everyone on this message board an apology. I looked selfish and ungrateful last night. Being frustrated is no reason to act the way I did. I apologize and appreciate the support through out my careere. Thank you

If anyone has video of this, please post. I want to show the wife. She would care about that more than all the stories I told her about Red/Lee and such.

Those Daleville girls were awesome with the National Anthem. One of the best jobs I've heard.

New Castle is awesome! The energy and ambience there gets better every year

By STEVE KRAH
stvkrh905@gmail.com

It was one of the most highly-anticipated championship matches in the 78 years of the IHSAA State Finals.

There was a buzz around the Indiana wrestling community for months.

On Saturday, Feb. 20, before 12,602 leather-lunged fans at Bankers Life Fieldhouse in downtown Indianapolis, New Palestine’s Chad Red and Evansville Mater Dei’s Nick Lee — ranked No. 1 and 2 in the nation and holding four previous state titles between them — stepped under the lights with the 132-pound title on the line.

Here they were, what long-time State Finals public address announcer Kevin Whitehead called “two of the finest high school wrestlers on the planet.”
The crowd and the television audience was treated to a tussle between the two Big Ten Conference-bound grapplers.

Red had never lost a match as a high schooler and yet he found himself behind 4-0 early in the match. He cradled his way back into the lead and wound up with his hand being raised after a 6-5 victory.

“I just feel like I wrestled through that match calmly and, other than giving up that four. I wrestled pretty good,” Red said. “(Lee’s quick 4-0 lead) definitely caught me off-guard. I noticed I had to move a lot more. Once I started moving a little more, I started changing the momentum of the match. Once I locked up that cradle, I started changing the momentum of the match and the crowd got a little more quiet. It was back to us wrestling. I had to control the lead.”

The New Pal Dragon sprinted off at 183-0 with state titles at 106, 120, 126 and 132.

Red is only the third Indiana high schooler to go unbeaten throughout his career and the ninth four-time IHSAA state champion, joining Crown Point’s Jason Tsirtsis (2009-12), Griffith’s Angel Escobedo (2002-05) and Alex Tsirtsis (2001-04), Mater Dei’s Blake Maurer (2001-04), Indianapolis Cathedral’s Lance Ellis (1986-89), South Bend Central’s Howard Fisher (1949-52), Muncie Central’s Willard Duffy (1930-33) and Bloomington’s Estil Ritter (1924-27).

Lee, who was at the top of the podium at 132 in 2015 and third at 126 in 2014, finished his junior season at 16-1.

He’s been on big stages and won championships all around the country, but Saturday in Indianapolis was special.

“This is crazy,” Red said. “This is one of my favorites, if THE best.”

Ellis, the first Indiana grappler to run the table, was there to present Red with his medal and later reflected on the moment.

“That was good for our sport, good for Indiana wrestling,” Ellis said. “What Chad Red did is amazing. He’s put himself in the record book as probably the greatest high school wrestler in Indiana history.”

What makes Red so good?

“A lot of things,” Ellis said. “It’s the time he puts in on the mat, the dedication, athleticism, just the will to win. He’s just a phenomenal wrestler. The bond he has with his dad (Chad Red Sr.) is special. Once you start winning, it becomes contagious.”

But what it boils down to for Ellis is that Red has what it takes to go into an early deficit, in front of a huge crowd with many rooting against him and still dig deep and come out on top.

“It comes down to mental toughness,” Ellis said. “And you’ve got to give (Nick) Lee all the credit in the world. For him to go after Red and challenge himself says a lot about him. Most people would do that. No one would do that. He’s a competitor.”

Ellis said as impressive as the showdown was now, it will be even more important years from now when Red and Lee can look back on even bigger titles at the national and international levels.

What did Lee think about the experience?

“You don’t get to wrestle the best kid in the country all the time,” Lee said. “You don’t take it for granted. You go out there and give it 100 percent. The hype is the hype. There’s always hype every year in every weight class. The opportunity to wrestler somebody with that many great credentials is just exciting for me.”
The moves that built the 4-0 lead?

“An inside tie to a Fireman’s (Carry) and I got him to his back, so two (points) for a takedown and two for a near fall,” Lee said. “You can’t panic when you get down and he didn’t panic and he took the lead. That’s something you can admire in wrestlers at this level. They’re always in the match no matter what the score is.”

Red will take his talents to the college mat at Nebraska while Lee has committed to Penn State.

Who knows, but these two could meet again many times in the future?

As for the immediate future for Red, he does not plan to be back in the wrestling room on Monday.

“I’m going to take a long time off,” Red said. “I’m about the chill-ax right now, kick my feet up and sit back.”

But Red will be back in the spotlight again soon enough when he takes on the Pennsylvania 132-pound champion March 26 at the Pittsburgh Wrestling Classic.
 
Click here to view the article

I get tired of these "lack of class" posts. The kid was probably the most excited he's ever been in his life. He has had to read for months how he was going to lose. The crowd chanted his opponents name. He was put flat on his back yet he bounced back. He overcame a hostile environment, an opponent that is one of the best in the nation and became a four time champ with an undefeated career in the process. Part of his success has always been his swag. It's not classless - it's just different from the norm. I for one love it that he is a free spirit that doesn't feel like he has to say all the right answers. He won, he silenced the doubters and he went out his way.

I get tired of these "lack of class" posts. The kid was probably the most excited he's ever been in his life. He has had to read for months how he was going to lose. The crowd chanted his opponents name. He was put flat on his back yet he bounced back. He overcame a hostile environment, an opponent that is one of the best in the nation and became a four time champ with an undefeated career in the process. Part of his success has always been his swag. It's not classless - it's just different from the norm. I for one love it that he is a free spirit that doesn't feel like he has to say all the right answers. He won, he silenced the doubters and he went out his way.

Those Daleville girls were awesome with the National Anthem. One of the best jobs I've heard.

Those Daleville girls were awesome with the National Anthem. One of the best jobs I've heard.

I get tired of these "lack of class" posts. The kid was probably the most excited he's ever been in his life. He has had to read for months how he was going to lose. The crowd chanted his opponents name. He was put flat on his back yet he bounced back. He overcame a hostile environment, an opponent that is one of the best in the nation and became a four time champ with an undefeated career in the process. Part of his success has always been his swag. It's not classless - it's just different from the norm. I for one love it that he is a free spirit that doesn't feel like he has to say all the right answers. He won, he silenced the doubters and he went out his way.