Y2CJ41 Posted January 28, 2016 Author Share Posted January 28, 2016 And you still don't believe class wrestling will help.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wrestling Scholar Posted January 28, 2016 Share Posted January 28, 2016 (edited) And you still don't believe class wrestling will help.... I personally think the one class system is partially responsible for some of the lower participation. Is there something else going on, like some of the subjects Busco wrestling mentioned? Are other states seeing lower participation levels? Anybody have data on forfeit rates in some of the infamous "Classed wrestling states" to compare? Edited January 28, 2016 by Wrestling Scholar Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
warsawwrestling Posted January 28, 2016 Share Posted January 28, 2016 And you still don't believe class wrestling will help.... Yeppers Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Y2CJ41 Posted January 28, 2016 Author Share Posted January 28, 2016 Ohio forfeits from 2013 https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1WrcU1oezs2mMF3L9ZA0o9RvJj-TtcYSJWrw3b6liEp0/edit?usp=sharing I don't know school sizes though. Wrestling Scholar 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RASSLER4LIFE Posted January 28, 2016 Share Posted January 28, 2016 Y2, moot if you don't have fresh data and no school sizes. BeastMode#31 and OldGoatGrappler 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
littlevito Posted January 28, 2016 Share Posted January 28, 2016 They already keep raising the lowest class, so I don't see any reason to keep raising it higher and putting the smaller kids at an even bigger disadvantage. The biggest thing that hurt us was taking a middle weight class away and adding another one to the bigger guys. There are many more kids having to wrestle JV in the middle weights because a weight class was taken away, and now a lot more forfeits in the bigger classes since they added one. RAJR 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Y2CJ41 Posted January 28, 2016 Author Share Posted January 28, 2016 Y2, moot if you don't have fresh data and no school sizes. Then go gather it yourself Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BeastMode#31 Posted January 28, 2016 Share Posted January 28, 2016 Burden of proof is on you Y2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Y2CJ41 Posted January 28, 2016 Author Share Posted January 28, 2016 Burden of proof is on you Y2 I've put together my data, time for you to work harder and put together data to prove me wrong. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RASSLER4LIFE Posted January 28, 2016 Share Posted January 28, 2016 You know my stance on classed wrestling and you seem to be the numbers guy!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Y2CJ41 Posted January 28, 2016 Author Share Posted January 28, 2016 They already keep raising the lowest class, so I don't see any reason to keep raising it higher and putting the smaller kids at an even bigger disadvantage. The biggest thing that hurt us was taking a middle weight class away and adding another one to the bigger guys. There are many more kids having to wrestle JV in the middle weights because a weight class was taken away, and now a lot more forfeits in the bigger classes since they added one. The weight class change is not to blame Comparing weights from 2011 and 2016 there is a significant change in just comparable weights. All the weights are up, most by 10-20 forfeits in just five years. The only weights that aren't 10+ difference are: 130/132 with 9 and 138/135 or 140 with 5. I don't like this sign at all as jumping from just under two forfeits per team to 2.5 is not good. On top of that we have "lost" about 4 programs also. You know my stance on classed wrestling and you seem to be the numbers guy!! The "work harder" method has yet to catch on at small schools then. Maybe some motivational speeches by people that take kids out of small schools and put them in big ones will help. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
warsawwrestling Posted January 28, 2016 Share Posted January 28, 2016 Ohio forfeits from 2013 https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1WrcU1oezs2mMF3L9ZA0o9RvJj-TtcYSJWrw3b6liEp0/edit?usp=sharing I don't know school sizes though. If I read that right it says they had 1850 ish FF's, indiana had around 850 ish FF's. We are 1/2 the size of Ohio. Looks like class wrestling is hurting them. BeastMode#31 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Y2CJ41 Posted January 28, 2016 Author Share Posted January 28, 2016 If I read that right it says they had 1850 ish FF's, indiana had around 850 ish FF's. We are 1/2 the size of Ohio. Looks like class wrestling is hurting them. They also have about 600 schools with wrestling compared to us with 300. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ENoblewrestling Posted January 28, 2016 Share Posted January 28, 2016 So they have about 3.08 ff per school, while we only have 2.83? BeastMode#31 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Y2CJ41 Posted January 28, 2016 Author Share Posted January 28, 2016 Here is their class breakdown by school sizeDivision Enrollment SchoolsI 351 and more 164II 194-350 166III 193 and less 167Total Teams 497Ohio Data per school Forfeits Schools AverageD1 2130 179 2.10D2 2280 203 2.77D3 1912 201 4.49The size is boys only so DI is 702+, DII is 388-700, and DIII is 386-.Here are Indiana's numbers if you split by those sizesSize For #Schools AvgD1 202 152 1.33 D2 372 106 3.51D3 286 50 5.72 As you can tell Ohio has 100 more small schools than we do. From this data I can make a pretty strong argument that Ohio's small schools are in better shape than in Indiana. FormerHornet, bog190 and Wrestling Scholar 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wrestling Scholar Posted January 28, 2016 Share Posted January 28, 2016 Here is their class breakdown by school size Division Enrollment Schools I 351 and more 164 II 194-350 166 III 193 and less 167 Total Teams 497 Ohio Data per school Forfeits Schools Average D1 2130 179 2.10 D2 2280 203 2.77 D3 1912 201 4.49 The size is boys only so DI is 702+, DII is 388-700, and DIII is 386-. Here are Indiana's numbers if you split by those sizes Size For #Schools Avg D1 202 152 1.33 D2 372 106 3.51 D3 286 50 5.72 As you can tell Ohio has 100 more small schools than we do. From this data I can make a pretty strong argument that Ohio's small schools are in better shape than in Indiana. Ohio has more smaller schools and a higher ration of them, and its easily proven that smaller schools are going to have much lower participation rates. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
warsawwrestling Posted January 28, 2016 Share Posted January 28, 2016 They also have about 600 schools with wrestling compared to us with 300. Well ya, that would have been the 1/2 the size that I was referring to! 1850/2=925...this is worse than 850. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bog190 Posted January 28, 2016 Share Posted January 28, 2016 Well ya, that would have been the 1/2 the size that I was referring to! 1850/2=925...this is worse than 850. Here is their class breakdown by school size Division Enrollment Schools I 351 and more 164 II 194-350 166 III 193 and less 167 Total Teams 497 Ohio Data per school Forfeits Schools Average D1 2130 179 2.10 D2 2280 203 2.77 D3 1912 201 4.49 The size is boys only so DI is 702+, DII is 388-700, and DIII is 386-. Here are Indiana's numbers if you split by those sizes Size For #Schools Avg D1 202 152 1.33 D2 372 106 3.51 D3 286 50 5.72 As you can tell Ohio has 100 more small schools than we do. From this data I can make a pretty strong argument that Ohio's small schools are in better shape than in Indiana. Seems like you ignored Y2's latest post? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
warsawwrestling Posted January 28, 2016 Share Posted January 28, 2016 (edited) It's not that I ignored it, but it also proves that are bigger schools are doing much better than theirs. It's not an argument that can be won for either side. Edited January 29, 2016 by warsawwrestling Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wrestling Scholar Posted January 28, 2016 Share Posted January 28, 2016 (edited) I just pulled some data from my home state of Kansas and put it into the same format.. Yea, another of the beleaguered class wrestling states. This is based on the participation of the past year 2015 state tournament series. They have four classes but I combined the top two to make it comparable. Keep in mind, Indiana has a higher ration of large schools vs small schools. Kanas has a much less dense population resulting in much more micro sized schools. Size Forfeits Schools Avg School Size Range 6A & 5a 122 64 1.906 2301-760 4A 249 63 3.952 765-265 3,2,1A 569 89 6.393 <265 Edited January 28, 2016 by Wrestling Scholar Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fearless fly Posted January 28, 2016 Share Posted January 28, 2016 106 @ avon sectional are already regional qualifiers same at Peru...along with 160 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RASSLER4LIFE Posted January 28, 2016 Share Posted January 28, 2016 What? I thought Wrestling is alive and well in states that have classed wrestling! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Y2CJ41 Posted January 29, 2016 Author Share Posted January 29, 2016 What? I thought Wrestling is alive and well in states that have classed wrestling! Their small schools have more wrestlers than ours of the same size. Looks like class wrestling does work. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RASSLER4LIFE Posted January 29, 2016 Share Posted January 29, 2016 (edited) Your answer for everything Y2. And actually Kansas is higher, so guess not. Edited January 29, 2016 by RASSLER4LIFE Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Y2CJ41 Posted January 29, 2016 Author Share Posted January 29, 2016 I just pulled some data from my home state of Kansas and put it into the same format.. Yea, another of the beleaguered class wrestling states. This is based on the participation of the past year 2015 state tournament series. They have four classes but I combined the top two to make it comparable. Keep in mind, Indiana has a higher ration of large schools vs small schools. Kanas has a much less dense population resulting in much more micro sized schools. Size Forfeits Schools Avg School Size Range 6A & 5a 122 64 1.906 2301-760 4A 249 63 3.952 765-265 3,2,1A 569 89 6.393 <265 If you put Indiana's schools with those enrollment numbers you get 6-5A- 1.14 forfeits per team 4A- 3.71 forfeits per team 3,2,1A- 7.3 forfeits per team Once again it shows how small schools in a classed state are not as bad off as they are in Indiana. Your answer for everything Y2. And actually Kansas is higher, so guess not. My answer is simple logic, compare Kansas schools with 265 students or less to Indiana schools with 265 students or less. Our big schools are thriving, which is no shocker to anyone but you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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