cdpd8b Posted February 8, 2013 Share Posted February 8, 2013 but ok..i will wait..just doesnt seem possible at this point Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cdpd8b Posted February 8, 2013 Share Posted February 8, 2013 and to Y2..its just common sense Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Y2CJ41 Posted February 8, 2013 Share Posted February 8, 2013 and to Y2..its just common sense Do the calculations.... It doesn't take into effect who beat who during the regular season. The formula is pretty simple to figure out for your team or any other team. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cdpd8b Posted February 8, 2013 Share Posted February 8, 2013 yeah..your right..we need a formula to figure out common sense..sorry..my bad Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Y2CJ41 Posted February 8, 2013 Share Posted February 8, 2013 yeah..your right..we need a formula to figure out common sense..sorry..my bad Glad to see your panties are still in a bundle. Go do the calculations..... see what you come up with. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jlittlejohn Posted February 8, 2013 Share Posted February 8, 2013 then that brings in the case that Danville who is #1 has 10 Seniors in the lineup...North has 4 and Lebanon 3...Lebanon has 2 underclassmen going to semi state...North has 3....so..we advance more underclassemen and have more alternates...and we beat them at conference by 50pts and head to head ...so still dont add up Danville had 7 seniors & 7 underclassmen starting the tournament. The still have 5 seniors alive who will earn replacement value based on their finish. They also have 4 underclassmen alive & 1 alternate at this point. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maligned Posted February 8, 2013 Author Share Posted February 8, 2013 yeah..your right..we need a formula to figure out common sense..sorry..my bad cpdp: All of your concerns are very legitimate. There are two reasons Lebanon is ahead RIGHT NOW. 1. The tourney is far from over. There is an "early-round" multiplier that helps teams like Lebanon that are in such a killer sectional. This multiplier drops off for any of their guys that do anything more from here on out. Meanwhile, N. Montgomery is coming out of a much lower sectional, so the scoring reins have been pulled a little so far. As soon as you win a match or two at semi-state, you're going to get enormous points because the multiplier comes off for those guys. I don't know how to write it bigger or bolder in the notes that the scores are very meaningless at this point. It's like after the first round of an individual tournament that team A has a couple more points than B when all of A's guys are 4 seeds and all of B's are 1 seeds. It will work out in the end of B is really better. 2. Lebanon does get a big advantage over N. Montgomery in that they have 12 guys coming back and you only have 9 scoring guys coming back. Your seniors still alive contribute a little more to your score, but not that much. Again, the point system tells us who will be good NEXT year--not this year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clint Gard Posted February 8, 2013 Share Posted February 8, 2013 Maybe someone can help me understand...I did the calculations last week after sectional and my number of 177 matched the number posted on this website. Now, after regional, I have no idea how we only went up 4 points with 2 SS qualifiers. Some other teams were just below us and had say 3 qualifiers and they jumped 20-30 points. Not sure what I'm doing wrong... Clint Gard Rochester HS Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tskin Posted February 8, 2013 Share Posted February 8, 2013 Clint don't worry the numbers I came up with for madison our way different then what is posted. Either I am doing it wrong, likely, or there was a mixup somewhere. Before everything is finalized for the selection process everything will be double checked and correct. Tyson Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clint Gard Posted February 8, 2013 Share Posted February 8, 2013 I understand but if I'm correct, then we should be around 200 points which keeps us in the running and I want my kids to know they still got a shot at team state. Just using it as a motivator. We had 3 kids place 6th at sectional = 21 points 4 kids didn't place at sectional = 24 points 5 kids lost first round at regional = 80 points 2 SS Qualifiers = 52 points That is 177 points X the 1.13 = 200.01 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phscoach Posted February 8, 2013 Share Posted February 8, 2013 Fill me in if i missed it, but was a distinction in the scoring made this season for the 5th/6th finishers at regional and semistate? Since they are wrestled for, shouldn't there be some sort of bonus like with sectional? It is pretty much that way with semistate, but the regional (no place) slot doesn't differentiate between 5th or 2 and out. I didn't see as much in the scoring procedure. No axe to grind or point to be made, just curious. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cdpd8b Posted February 8, 2013 Share Posted February 8, 2013 thx maligned....i am unable to get to the formula for some reason..and I at least have some understanding...the thing that bothers me a little is that even though Lebanon is in a "tougher" sectional and gets a big multiplier based on that, they are in same regionals as North who again beat them by like 70 points at regionals and even if you take out two of our four seniors in the mix, still would be ahead...shows that North would have been just as good if not better had they gone to the Zionsville sectionals so not so sure I agree (not that it matters) that a larger multiplier for being in a "tougher" sectionals is the answer...just my thoughts...again.."once i thought i was wrong...I was mistaken"..jk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soup Posted February 8, 2013 Share Posted February 8, 2013 I am also confused as we (Bremen) have LESS points this week than we had after sectional. We qualified 1 (4th) to the Merrillville SS and had 2 5th placers at Rochester Regional...can someone help us out? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maligned Posted February 8, 2013 Author Share Posted February 8, 2013 OK...we didn't have the 5th place guys brought in correctly for MANY teams...that's why people lost points or points don't match what all of you thought...working to get updated scores out for everyone VERY, VERY SORRY!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soup Posted February 8, 2013 Share Posted February 8, 2013 Thanks maligned!! Don't wanna add to your stress level, just wondering!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clint Gard Posted February 8, 2013 Share Posted February 8, 2013 If 5th and 6th place guys make are being added in then Rochester had one 5th And 2 sixths. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mat Stat Posted February 8, 2013 Share Posted February 8, 2013 I believe that there are points awarded for 5/6 at Sectional (like last year) and then 5th at Regional and Semi-State. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maligned Posted February 8, 2013 Author Share Posted February 8, 2013 Right...5/6 at sectional have the same expected output next year. Also, there is a small bonus for 5th-placers at regional and semi-state. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maligned Posted February 8, 2013 Author Share Posted February 8, 2013 Pre-semi-state score analysis is now added to the first post to help with perspective on what the scores mean right now. Bottom line: if your sectional/regional multiplier was low and you win matches this week, you make huge jumps. If you were in a strong sectional, you can't move much this week. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
littlevito Posted February 11, 2013 Share Posted February 11, 2013 Read this http://indianamat.com/stuff/IHSWCADualsStateFinalsSelectionProcedures2013.pdf Open Excel Plug in numbers Then complain I plugged in these numbers: TEAM RESULTS: Perry Meridian 5-0, Bloomington South 5-0, Penn 3-2, Mishawaka 3-2, Bellmont 2-3, Lawrence North 2-3, Fairfield 0-5, Muncie South 0-5. ROUND ONE Perry Meridian 68, Fairfield 6 Bloomington South 37, Mishawaka 25 Penn 49, Lawrence North 12 Bellmont 51, Muncie South 27 I plugged in those numbers because of this year's participants. You can't base how good a team will be next year cause of how they did the prior year. Pretty sure Bellmont would have beat all the teams besides Yorktown in the AA class. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Y2CJ41 Posted February 11, 2013 Share Posted February 11, 2013 I plugged in these numbers: TEAM RESULTS: Perry Meridian 5-0, Bloomington South 5-0, Penn 3-2, Mishawaka 3-2, Bellmont 2-3, Lawrence North 2-3, Fairfield 0-5, Muncie South 0-5. ROUND ONE Perry Meridian 68, Fairfield 6 Bloomington South 37, Mishawaka 25 Penn 49, Lawrence North 12 Bellmont 51, Muncie South 27 I plugged in those numbers because of this year's participants. You can't base how good a team will be next year cause of how they did the prior year. Pretty sure Bellmont would have beat all the teams besides Yorktown in the AA class. Then you devise a way to do it better please. Show a way that is fair to everyone and not just Belmont. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tommyho Posted February 11, 2013 Share Posted February 11, 2013 New prairie had 2 kids injured that didn't wrestle sectionals that I think still earn points for us cause they were semi state qualifiers last year , brad freestone , Miguel Ibarra ... Am I right ?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maligned Posted February 12, 2013 Author Share Posted February 12, 2013 I plugged in these numbers: TEAM RESULTS: Perry Meridian 5-0, Bloomington South 5-0, Penn 3-2, Mishawaka 3-2, Bellmont 2-3, Lawrence North 2-3, Fairfield 0-5, Muncie South 0-5. ROUND ONE Perry Meridian 68, Fairfield 6 Bloomington South 37, Mishawaka 25 Penn 49, Lawrence North 12 Bellmont 51, Muncie South 27 I plugged in those numbers because of this year's participants. You can't base how good a team will be next year cause of how they did the prior year. Pretty sure Bellmont would have beat all the teams besides Yorktown in the AA class. I don't dispute Bellmont being better than Muncie South this year. But Muncie South wrestled very well in the tournament last year when they needed to while Bellmont fell flat. South went on to show very little lineup depth this year--rarely putting out a full lineup and often forfeiting 3-4 weights (4 starters were out when they lost to Bellmont). They weren't a top 8 team. But it's impossible to say Bellmont was the second best team when they showed vulnerabilities all season. They were not a slam-dunk top 5 team by any means and needed to get more than 1 underclassman past regional if they wanted to earn a spot last year. They won't be in the event next year either--they lost every key close match they could have at sectional and regional and were left with one of their worst showings in memory. It doesn't mean they won't be a top 5 dual team next year--but they didn't prove it when they needed to at the same time that Yorktown and Jasper and Heritage Hills and Danville and others advanced lots of guys through when they needed to. The coaches wanted a SCORING system--not a computer rating. Win matches in the state series, earn points. Don't win matches, don't earn points. A straight-up computer rating would already have picked Bellmont for next year--but they flat out lost matches they shouldn't have and they're out of the running when they shouldn't be. Yorktown and Southside and Adams Central and South Adams all got bids last year out of their regional--why couldn't Bellmont win those same matches and earn a bid? More than 80% of the teams that would have earned spots with this scoring system have been in the year-end Top 8 the following year for the 3 years we've studied and compiled information. This is a far better rate than the random geographical system used by the IHSAA. But unfortunately there will always be about 2 teams for each class that are arguably not top 8 and a few teams that feel they should have been there instead. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maligned Posted February 12, 2013 Author Share Posted February 12, 2013 New prairie had 2 kids injured that didn't wrestle sectionals that I think still earn points for us cause they were semi state qualifiers last year , brad freestone , Miguel Ibarra ... Am I right ?? See the reminder topic I just posted for instructions on how to submit a simple report about your injured wrestlers! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
littlevito Posted February 12, 2013 Share Posted February 12, 2013 I'm not just saying this for Bellmont, but other teams as well. Basing qualification on underclassmen in the previous here's lineup is no justification on how the team will be the next season. To penalize a team for a lineup full of seniors doesn't seem right. No one knows how JV members will contribute the next season, or how well an incoming class of Freshmen will do. Move this tournament to the end of three year and figure out a qualifying process for that season. I heart there is an open weekend after individual state like always. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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