Coach McCormick Posted March 20, 2012 Share Posted March 20, 2012 The IHSWCA's timeline for extending bids to Indiana wrestling teams was planned for March 15. Last week, the IHSAA decided to throw a curve ball at the association and withdraw their prior blessing to allow the IHSWCA to utilize an "additional weigh-in" for this event. IHSWCA officers, regional reps and the event selection committee met this past Saturday evening in Indianapolis to address this issue and make decisions surrounding the event. We did decide that the IHSWCA will push forward and support our Classed Team State Duals project. Contact has been made with those schools who have already "locked" a position in the event. Our thought was to contact the "locked" teams to 1) extend them their official bid into the event and 2) see if they are willing and able to adjust their schedule to participate in the event next season. So far, I have heard back from 9 of the 19 teams contacted and all but 1 have eagerly accepted their position and are willing to adjust their schedule in order to participate in this event. I expect to hear from the other schools over the next few days regarding their decision. The IHSWCA would like to apologize to those schools/teams who are on the bubble for a bid. Our plan is to finalize the remaining wild card teams by our spring clinic which falls on April 20. This will give us time to 1) receive the responses from the "locked" teams, 2) identify any additional wild card positions that may open up and 3) meet again as a committee to finalize the remaining bid offers. Again, we apologize for this inconvenience, but some of this has been placed out of our control by the IHSAA. I have a number of e-mail correspondence between the IHSWCA and the IHSAA over the past couple of weeks. The best way to convey what has transpired during this time frame is to simply share with you the final few e-mails that took place between Bobby Cox and I. I have included those e-mails below, so those people throughout the wrestling community can evaluate the situation for themselves and weigh in on the situation. Start from the bottom and work your way up. Sincerely, Trent McCormick IHSWCA President ======================================================== Mr. McCormick, I have ready your plea and I have not changed my position. I have no doubt that the IHSWCA will move forward with this event and IHSAA member schools will make programmatic decisions as to the events they choose to participate in. Providing an exemption to the sport of wrestling in this matter is problematic and as I stated earlier, I will not support. Sincerely, Bobby Cox Commissioner Indiana High School Athletic Association, Inc. ---------------------------------------- From: McCormick, Trent [mailto:tmccormick@yorktown.k12.in.us] Sent: Wednesday, March 14, 2012 9:53 AM To: Bobby Cox Cc: Robert Faulkens; ndean@baugo.org; ExecStaff; noble@fayette.k12.in.us; 'Cale Hoover'; Danny Struck; Trent Staggs; 'mwhitten@warrick.k12.in.us'; 'diagostinoj@hendricks.k12.in.us'; 'nancy_alspaugh@mcs.k12.in.us' Subject: RE: IHSWCA Team State Duals Event Mr. Cox, I have received your response below, and I have some concerns. We (the IHSWCA) began planning our Team State Duals event last fall after our officers met with Assistant Commissioner Faulkens in Indianapolis. At that meeting the IHSAA Assistant Commissioner over wrestling gave us the IHSAA?s blessing to move forward with a very positive project for Indiana high school wrestling. There has been a tremendous amount of excitement generated around this event across the state, and we have continued working hard on this event over the past six months based on Mr. Faulkens? directive that we could utilize 1 additional weigh-in for the teams participating in this event. Our IHSWCA officers and regional representatives from all over the state have met on numerous occasions in Indianapolis and Columbus in planning for this tournament. We are at the point now of sending final invitations to the qualifying teams and selecting a facility. I sent bid packets out several weeks ago to high schools in the Indianapolis area as well as one university that requested a facility bid packet for this event. I would also like to point out your quote from an IHSAA press release that was printed in a number of newspapers across the state this past November: Taken from November, 2011 IHSAA Press Release -- ?The Indiana High School Wrestling Coaches Association (IHSWCA) has expressed interest among their membership to sponsor a dual meet tournament in January. This opening will allow the coaches association to garner much needed revenue in their efforts to promote the sport, provide recognition to student-athletes and further professionalize their ranks through clinics and other educational opportunities. Executed properly the decision will prove to be a win-win for Indiana high school wrestling and the over 8,000 youngsters that participate in the sport.? --- From Bobby Cox Approximately six weeks ago, I e-mailed Mr. Faulkens regarding our duals event to keep your office in the loop with our progress, and I attached our event flyer for his review. I did not receive any alternative directives from this correspondence, so we have continued to operate under the premise that our event could move forward with the additional weigh-in. We have been transparent and forth-right in our communications with your office regarding this event at all times. If the IHSAA had concerns with granting an additional weigh-in, why wouldn?t Mr. Faulkens, or someone from your office, have responded to my earlier e-mail? Why have you waited until now to question our plans for this very positive event? With regard to your position on regular season contests, we are merely adding three dual meets for 24 schools across the state. I will again attach our event flyer for your review. This is the same document that I sent Mr. Faulkens roughly six weeks ago. Additional items to note: ? There are many coaches, wrestlers, schools and fans across our state that enjoy the dual meet championship atmosphere. Many people are looking forward to our planned IHSWCA Team Duals Championship event slated for next season. The excitement grew even more after wrestling fans across the state read your November press release. ? One of our coaches? survey questions at the 2011-12 sectional sites across the state asked, ?if you were to be invited to the IHSWCA Team State Duals Championships, would you bring your team?? ----- 91% of the coaches responded that ?yes, I would bring my team to this event.? ? We have selected December 22, 2012 for this event as that date is ?clear? for most every wrestling program in the state due to how the calendar falls next season. ? We have also included a component where small, medium and large school wrestling teams alike can showcase their skills and have their team in the spot light. ? You will also find in the event document that we have guaranteed representation across the state, so every semi-state will be represented by at least one team. Again, we have put a lot of thought and planning into the design of this tournament. ? The IHSWCA has gladly done all of the work to this point and will run the actual event as well. We are not asking to place any further burden on the IHSAA other than to grant 24 teams 1 additional weigh-in for this event. In closing, I implore you, Mr. Cox, to reconsider your position on the additional weigh-in for the teams participating in this event. We (the IHSWCA) would not have put all of the weeks and months of work into planning this event if not for the blessing that your Assistant Commissioner over wrestling gave our officers last fall coupled with your press release last November. Again, I would ask you to reconsider your position on this matter given the circumstances. Trent McCormick Yorktown High School IHSWCA President Cale Hoover Center Grove High School IHSWCA Past President Danny Struck Jeffersonville High School IHSWCA Vice-President Trent Staggs Martinsville High School IHSWCA Secretary-Treasurer ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ From: Bobby Cox [mailto:bcox@ihsaa.org] Sent: Monday, March 12, 2012 2:15 PM To: McCormick, Trent Cc: Robert Faulkens; ndean@baugo.org; ExecStaff Subject: IHSWCA Team State Duals Event Trent, I am in receipt of your message to Assistant Commissioner Robert Faulkens regarding the potential IHSWCA team state duals event. I appreciate the IHSWCA and their efforts in providing this opportunity for Indiana schools that choose to participate in the event. My sense is that the IHSAA Executive Committee also supports your efforts and wishes you every success. Having said that I will not support nor will I encourage our Executive Committee to exempt this event from the normal computation of wrestling events for a season. Quite honestly, I believe many of our sports have too many regular season contests. Additionally, I cannot be responsible for decisions made in other sports decades ago, as you reference in your Hall of Fame example for basketball. I am certainly not comfortable granting such an exceptions for all sports and should I allow this in wrestling, it is my sense that other sports would be lining up for similar consideration for whatever causes they feel worthy. It is simply something I will not support. Sincerely, Bobby Cox Commissioner Indiana High School Athletic Association, Inc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom Miller Posted March 20, 2012 Share Posted March 20, 2012 I wanted to appauled the coaches who put in many hours to get this off the ground. Right, another curve ball. But, keep moving forward. Tom Miller Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bharmon01 Posted March 20, 2012 Share Posted March 20, 2012 Without the additional weigh-in being granted, I think this will hurt participation. Teams are locked into contracts for multiple years. Not sure what tournament they are going to drop with the possibillity of not qualifing the next year for the IHSWCA tournament. I don't know many ADs who want to break contracts. It will be interesting to see how this plays out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PreparetoWin Posted March 20, 2012 Share Posted March 20, 2012 Cant you just have your varsity kids sit out one dual match....or a couple sit out throughout the year and still get the same amount of weigh ins for participating wrestlers? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thewrestlingdude Posted March 20, 2012 Share Posted March 20, 2012 Right and send your JV to one of your varsity matches to fulfill the contract the year you are invited. Dude Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KarlHungus Posted March 20, 2012 Share Posted March 20, 2012 Cant you just have your varsity kids sit out one dual match....or a couple sit out throughout the year and still get the same amount of weigh ins for participating wrestlers? You can't do this. Mishawaka's Al Smith would have been able to invite individuals if this were the case. The IHSAA said that even if one kid was in the Al Smith it would count as 2 scheduling points for the entire team. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coach Peck Posted March 20, 2012 Share Posted March 20, 2012 You can't do this. Mishawaka's Al Smith would have been able to invite individuals if this were the case. The IHSAA said that even if one kid was in the Al Smith it would count as 2 scheduling points for the entire team. Kind of strange (but not surprising) that the IHSAA would it interperet it one way for the Al Smith and then turn their heads when schools are wrestling two varsity teams in competitions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CoachG Posted March 20, 2012 Share Posted March 20, 2012 Interesting in that the amount of weigh-ins (dates) is not changing from how they were for 2011-12. This was not an issue for team state before, but now it is??? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coach Peck Posted March 20, 2012 Share Posted March 20, 2012 Interesting in that the amount of weigh-ins (dates) is not changing from how they were for 2011-12. This was not an issue for team state before, but now it is??? True as well....actually a team would wrestle one less match if the won the IHSWCA Tournament than they did under the old format. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thewrestlingdude Posted March 20, 2012 Share Posted March 20, 2012 Because it would not be an IHSAA event... and they can argue that other sports get more competition as they advance in the IHSAA tournament... football teams get five extra competitions if they advance to state finals... I would imagine the commish is worried that now football teams may want to extend their season and play extra games if they lose in tournament... maybe I really dunno his logic... You are right coach Peck, schools schedule varsity meets and send their JV. But that doesn't seem to catch the eye of the powers that be. Yet anyway, we may want to keep it quiet. or else.... Dude Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TripleB Posted March 20, 2012 Share Posted March 20, 2012 You can't do this. Mishawaka's Al Smith would have been able to invite individuals if this were the case. The IHSAA said that even if one kid was in the Al Smith it would count as 2 scheduling points for the entire team. The IHSAA ruled that a team could not enter one kid, not that a team couldn't enter one JV wrestler. points apply to individuals, not teams. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PreparetoWin Posted March 20, 2012 Share Posted March 20, 2012 It is my understanding that if John Doe weighs in x amount of times thats all he gets whether its a JV tourney or Varsity tourney or anywhere else. So if John Doe sits out one Duel, then John Doe can weigh in for this tourney. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ENoblewrestling Posted March 20, 2012 Share Posted March 20, 2012 It is my understanding that if John Doe weighs in x amount of times thats all he gets whether its a JV tourney or Varsity tourney or anywhere else. So if John Doe sits out one Duel, then John Doe can weigh in for this tourney. He would have to sit out two duals or one multi-team event. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Short Jay Posted March 20, 2012 Share Posted March 20, 2012 Is it the number of weigh-ins that matter or the number of competitions? You could have a wrestler weigh-in but never compete because of injury. If a wrestler competes he can only wrestle 7 tournaments and 4 duals. Is this correct? Many of us take extra wrestlers to big invites, they weigh-in but don't compete. If he doesn't compete does it count? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bjax Posted March 20, 2012 Share Posted March 20, 2012 Wow, what a shame. They tell you they will allow it, you make all sorts of plans and spend all sorts of time organizing it, and then they pull the rug out from underneath it. I don't believe the event will be very well attended if teams have to shuffle their schedules. Very sad. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KarlHungus Posted March 20, 2012 Share Posted March 20, 2012 The IHSAA ruled that a team could not enter one kid, not that a team couldn't enter one JV wrestler. points apply to individuals, not teams. Faulkens told me that if we entered one kid at the Al Smith, it would cost our entire team 2 scheduling points. Not sure how much to believe from Mr. Faulkens Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MattM Posted March 20, 2012 Share Posted March 20, 2012 The IHSAA strikes again. Hopefully one of these years we can find someone that can not only understand the complexity of wrestling and its rules, but also be clear on any direction given to the sport/teams. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TripleB Posted March 21, 2012 Share Posted March 21, 2012 Faulkens told me that if we entered one kid at the Al Smith, it would cost our entire team 2 scheduling points. Not sure how much to believe from Mr. Faulkens Good point. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Timeinandout Posted March 21, 2012 Share Posted March 21, 2012 Is it the number of weigh-ins that matter or the number of competitions? You could have a wrestler weigh-in but never compete because of injury. If a wrestler competes he can only wrestle 7 tournaments and 4 duals. Is this correct? Many of us take extra wrestlers to big invites, they weigh-in but don't compete. If he doesn't compete does it count? It is the number of scheduling points. You have to have four duals which I believe are 1 point a piece. Tourneys are 2. I don't remember the total for scheduling points. I believe you get 18 scheduling points. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smooth34 Posted March 21, 2012 Share Posted March 21, 2012 Of course they don't want to do what's in the best interest of the kids. They want to do what's in their best interest. Feels like more political junk. How did these individuals get chosen for these postions? You should have to be re-elected. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PreparetoWin Posted March 21, 2012 Share Posted March 21, 2012 What if we take our Varsity #2 or Varsity #3 or our JV to 2 duals...then our Varsity #1 can go to the tourney right? Then I would just manage each kids weigh ins to make sure they didnt get to many. Problem solved. Our Varsity #2 or #3 would happen to have enough of my Varsity #1 to compete/win the duel. How many scheduling points do Varsity #2 and #3 and my JV get? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Y2CJ41 Posted March 21, 2012 Share Posted March 21, 2012 Must be nice to have four full squads. Most teams struggle to fill one full squad! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coach McCormick Posted March 21, 2012 Author Share Posted March 21, 2012 UPDATE ON TEAMS THAT HAVE ACCEPTED OR DECLINED Only 1 team has declined their invitation at this point in time. All 6 of the Middle Division teams have accepted their bid. All 6 Small Division teams have accepted at this point in time as well. Most every coach I have contacted has been enthused about the event. There are several coaches still trying to work out creative measures, so they can accept their invitation. I just wanted to give everyone an idea of who has accepted at this point in time. I expect to have responses back from the other schools listed below by the end of this week. Despite the recent hurdle put in our way, things are moving along nicely. Coach McCormick IHSWCA President % = denotes teams that have accepted their spot and have committed to participate in this event. # = denotes teams that have declined their automatic bid. Class 3A (Large Division) % - Bloomington South Perry Meridian % - Evansville Mater Dei % - Cathedral Crown Point Elkhart Memorial # - Merrillville *still 2 wildcard to be voted on for selection Class 2A (Medium Division) % - Jimtown % - Evansville Memorial % - Yorktown % - Culver Academy % - Southmont % - Danville **still 2 wildcards to be voted on for selection Class 1A (Small Division) % - Adams Central % - Milan % - Lewis Cass % - Churubusco % - South Putnam % - South Adams **still 2 wildcards to be voted on for selection Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TripleB Posted March 21, 2012 Share Posted March 21, 2012 Must be nice to have four full squads. Most teams struggle to fill one full squad! PTW must have his old school and his new school confused Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aoberlin Posted March 21, 2012 Share Posted March 21, 2012 Not one bit surprised. I love the responses. Let us start with a pat on the back and then end with a slap in the face. Until upper management changes (IHSAA) we have a very very steep uphill battle. Maybe if we would have wore dress pants they might have worked with us. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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