IntegratedCarp Posted February 25, 2011 Share Posted February 25, 2011 What would you estimate the attrition rate is for wrestlers who start younger than 10 years old? To put it another way, how many kids who start wrestling prior to 10 years of age end up quitting wrestling by the time they get to high school? Personally, I would estimate the rate is about 80%. Even kids who wrestle in our program for 5 years or so, still have a high fall out by the time high school starts. Btw, this is not an anti- youth wrestling post. More just a gauge to see if other programs experience such a massive attrition. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sarto Posted February 25, 2011 Share Posted February 25, 2011 I think it depends on the program. If it is a strong feeder system that involves the high school wrestlers in some way (coaches, officials, or just working the meets), the young lads are more likely to catch the fever, but if they never see what they are to become, they will loose interest and play basketball. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mtv2112 Posted February 25, 2011 Share Posted February 25, 2011 What would you estimate the attrition rate is for wrestlers who start younger than 10 years old? To put it another way, how many kids who start wrestling prior to 10 years of age end up quitting wrestling by the time they get to high school? Personally, I would estimate the rate is about 80%. Even kids who wrestle in our program for 5 years or so, still have a high fall out by the time high school starts. Btw, this is not an anti- youth wrestling post. More just a gauge to see if other programs experience such a massive attrition. It seems bad but on further reflection it is quite normal. Only about 4 or 5 per grade make a basketball team but loads of kids play youth basketball. The difference is that bball cuts kids where wrestling is sort of self cutting. Wrestling is hard and most kids don't like hard. Sarto makes some good observations. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Miller News Posted February 25, 2011 Share Posted February 25, 2011 Who cares about those QUITTERS anyway!!!!!!!!!! Of course the attrition rate is going to be high. If you look at it closely, it is going to be high for all sports. I would actually say that compared to other sports the attrition rate for wrestlers is relatively low. Thinks about how many kids played youth baseball, football, basketball (hundreds) and think about how few play it in high school. Darwin called it survival of the fittest. I believe the time to worry about wrestling attrition is between middle school & high school. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WRESTLING IS LIFE Posted February 25, 2011 Share Posted February 25, 2011 Who cares about those QUITTERS anyway!!!!!!!!!! Of course the attrition rate is going to be high. If you look at it closely, it is going to be high for all sports. I would actually say that compared to other sports the attrition rate for wrestlers is relatively low. Thinks about how many kids played youth baseball, football, basketball (hundreds) and think about how few play it in high school. Darwin called it survival of the fittest. I believe the time to worry about wrestling attrition is between middle school & high school. Out of my youth football team only 2 out of 28 kids played there senior year. I think 4 or 5 played as Juniors. If you look at the POWER CLUBS like the PENN and PERRY PROGRAM. they have over 140 kids( PENN closer to 200) in the program any given year and only so many spots. Some kids if they can't be VARSITY can't commit to the demands of this sport. I think a better way to look at this is how many years did the average State Champions wrestle. MOST I would guess over 6 to 7 years. Let us know how long your state champions wrestled! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
currentwrestler Posted February 25, 2011 Share Posted February 25, 2011 Couldn't the same be said about other sports? Look how popular youth soccer, basketball, baseball, and football are. Coming from a small town, I know we had about 15 Pee-Wee baseball teams to feed into two high school teams in my county of about 18 kids each. On average, that's just more than 2 kids staying in it from the beginning. Soccer was the same way only with about 25 kids per high school. In basketball, there were probably 30 teams in leagues for a group of kids within four years of each other (the same age difference as a freshman to a senior) to fight for 15 varsity and junior varsity spots at two school. Football is not as great of an example, but the fall off is still really high. In all, I don't think this is characteristic of wrestling, but of youth sports to high school sports as well. Can the same be said about College retention? I think what it comes down to is that children find what their forte is and go to that. The fact that there are limited spots on rosters doesn't help either. Maybe this is just because I am from a small town, but I would think this is a pretty common trend Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ekocottonball Posted February 25, 2011 Share Posted February 25, 2011 Problem is, those other sports don't require the time and committment from COACHES that wrestling requires. We make a huge committment to wrestlers and they quit. The other thing unmentioned is the burn out rate is extremely high in wrestling. Wrestlers quit cause crazy mom and dad are dragging their butt to Michigan one week, then Tennessee the next, then Georgia a couple weeks later. Those insane parents will pay a heavy prices when nearly everyone of those kids just refuse to wrestle in high school. Seen it a thousand times and it will happen to them. But magically the crazy parent knows better than nearly all the coaches with decades of experience out there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mtv2112 Posted February 25, 2011 Share Posted February 25, 2011 Problem is, those other sports don't require the time and committment from COACHES that wrestling requires. We make a huge committment to wrestlers and they quit. The other thing unmentioned is the burn out rate is extremely high in wrestling. Wrestlers quit cause crazy mom and dad are dragging their butt to Michigan one week, then Tennessee the next, then Georgia a couple weeks later. Those insane parents will pay a heavy prices when nearly everyone of those kids just refuse to wrestle in high school. Seen it a thousand times and it will happen to them. But magically the crazy parent knows better than nearly all the coaches with decades of experience out there. What percentage of kids in your program travel like that. 1 out of 20? That sounds like national tournaments. Usually only the very best have to leave the state to seek better competition like that. Sound like the parents are overreaching too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
currentwrestler Posted March 1, 2011 Share Posted March 1, 2011 Problem is, those other sports don't require the time and committment from COACHES that wrestling requires. We make a huge committment to wrestlers and they quit. The other thing unmentioned is the burn out rate is extremely high in wrestling. Wrestlers quit cause crazy mom and dad are dragging their butt to Michigan one week, then Tennessee the next, then Georgia a couple weeks later. Those insane parents will pay a heavy prices when nearly everyone of those kids just refuse to wrestle in high school. Seen it a thousand times and it will happen to them. But magically the crazy parent knows better than nearly all the coaches with decades of experience out there. I understand you are partial to wrestling coaches, but I think it is rather unfair to say that no other sport's coaches are as dedicated as wrestling coaches. Wrestling has their dedicated coaches, as well as their apathetic ones just like every other sport. No disrespect, I just try to see from all perspectives. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jimtown 138 Posted March 1, 2011 Share Posted March 1, 2011 A lot has to do with if the kid is wrestling to make his parents happy or if they're doing it for themselves, because they enjoy the sport. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IUPsych Posted March 1, 2011 Share Posted March 1, 2011 Who cares about those QUITTERS anyway!!!!!!!!!! Of course the attrition rate is going to be high. If you look at it closely, it is going to be high for all sports. I would actually say that compared to other sports the attrition rate for wrestlers is relatively low. Thinks about how many kids played youth baseball, football, basketball (hundreds) and think about how few play it in high school. Darwin called it survival of the fittest. I believe the time to worry about wrestling attrition is between middle school & high school. I disagree...if you want to strengthen the sport you should be thinking about the attrition rate much, much earlier. At the elementary level, the attrition rate in youth wrestling is substantially higher than other sports, especially for first year wrestlers. I'd bet my house on that. Shoot, I'd say the percentage of new kids that leave wrestling DURING the season is higher than the attrition rate between seasons in Little League baseball, football, basketball, and soccer. Yes, wrestling is a hard sport, and I think life long wrestling folks like to point to that as the primary reason kids quit...but from what I have experienced that is not the primary reason young kids don't stick with it. In actuality it is the families that quit. I have seen many, many families drop wrestling because of the awful tournament experiences. They go to one or two tournaments and say enough is enough. There are some very good athletes with very committed and supportive families that leave the sport early. If my son didn't like wrestling so much you can rest assured that I wouldn't subject myself and the rest of the family to another Sunday in Hades. I'm not going to list the horrors of the Sunday wrestling experience (and I'm talking about the stuff not associated with the actual matches) because you all are familiar with them. This is coming from someone who didn't grow up wrestling so perhaps my view of the sport and the youth tournament experience is different that most of you. I respect the heck out of the sport and am in awe of what it takes to get good and stay good. I suppose I am representing the group of parents who could give two turds whether their kid becomes a state champion wrestler. Having said that, I hope that he sticks with it for a long time because there are so many positive aspects of the sport. In terms of the challenge and competition, there is no other sport like it. To me the solution to improving the attrition rate is to improve the youth tournament experience. If I had a vote, I'd say that splitting sessions (AM/PM) for the young kids and the older kids would improve the experience substantially for the kids and the families. IUPsych Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IntegratedCarp Posted March 1, 2011 Author Share Posted March 1, 2011 I disagree...if you want to strengthen the sport you should be thinking about the attrition rate much, much earlier. At the elementary level, the attrition rate in youth wrestling is substantially higher than other sports, especially for first year wrestlers. I'd bet my house on that. Shoot, I'd say the percentage of new kids that leave wrestling DURING the season is higher than the attrition rate between seasons in Little League baseball, football, basketball, and soccer. Yes, wrestling is a hard sport, and I think life long wrestling folks like to point to that as the primary reason kids quit...but from what I have experienced that is not the primary reason young kids don't stick with it. In actuality it is the families that quit. I have seen many, many families drop wrestling because of the awful tournament experiences. They go to one or two tournaments and say enough is enough. There are some very good athletes with very committed and supportive families that leave the sport early. If my son didn't like wrestling so much you can rest assured that I wouldn't subject myself and the rest of the family to another Sunday in Hades. I'm not going to list the horrors of the Sunday wrestling experience (and I'm talking about the stuff not associated with the actual matches) because you all are familiar with them. This is coming from someone who didn't grow up wrestling so perhaps my view of the sport and the youth tournament experience is different that most of you. I respect the heck out of the sport and am in awe of what it takes to get good and stay good. I suppose I am representing the group of parents who could give two turds whether their kid becomes a state champion wrestler. Having said that, I hope that he sticks with it for a long time because there are so many positive aspects of the sport. In terms of the challenge and competition, there is no other sport like it. To me the solution to improving the attrition rate is to improve the youth tournament experience. If I had a vote, I'd say that splitting sessions (AM/PM) for the young kids and the older kids would improve the experience substantially for the kids and the families. IUPsych Amen, brother. Couldn't have said it better myself. The ISWA really helped me out as a kid. I am quite loyal to them. We sure hope they get it together and start running these tournaments in a better fashion. There are plenty of Indiana kids we are losing in wrestling just because our organization can't put on a tournament with out having everyone sit there for 90 hours. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MattM Posted March 1, 2011 Share Posted March 1, 2011 To me the solution to improving the attrition rate is to improve the youth tournament experience. If I had a vote, I'd say that splitting sessions (AM/PM) for the young kids and the older kids would improve the experience substantially for the kids and the families. I've mention several times that tournament with traditionally big numbers needs to go to this system. This would make the event run so much smoother for wrestlers and fans alike. Imagine still having a large bracket but it being less crowded, less wait in between matches, less stress on the organizers, and in the end the event still racks in all the money they would with the old system. that beats the fire code violation, almost 2 hours between matches, and still there until after dark situation that happens in many events today. You want kids and parents coming back they want an experience they can enjoy on saturdays not a long hot day in a confusing madhouse. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
currentwrestler Posted March 1, 2011 Share Posted March 1, 2011 I disagree...if you want to strengthen the sport you should be thinking about the attrition rate much, much earlier. At the elementary level, the attrition rate in youth wrestling is substantially higher than other sports, especially for first year wrestlers. I'd bet my house on that. Shoot, I'd say the percentage of new kids that leave wrestling DURING the season is higher than the attrition rate between seasons in Little League baseball, football, basketball, and soccer. Yes, wrestling is a hard sport, and I think life long wrestling folks like to point to that as the primary reason kids quit...but from what I have experienced that is not the primary reason young kids don't stick with it. In actuality it is the families that quit. I have seen many, many families drop wrestling because of the awful tournament experiences. They go to one or two tournaments and say enough is enough. There are some very good athletes with very committed and supportive families that leave the sport early. If my son didn't like wrestling so much you can rest assured that I wouldn't subject myself and the rest of the family to another Sunday in Hades. I'm not going to list the horrors of the Sunday wrestling experience (and I'm talking about the stuff not associated with the actual matches) because you all are familiar with them. This is coming from someone who didn't grow up wrestling so perhaps my view of the sport and the youth tournament experience is different that most of you. I respect the heck out of the sport and am in awe of what it takes to get good and stay good. I suppose I am representing the group of parents who could give two turds whether their kid becomes a state champion wrestler. Having said that, I hope that he sticks with it for a long time because there are so many positive aspects of the sport. In terms of the challenge and competition, there is no other sport like it. To me the solution to improving the attrition rate is to improve the youth tournament experience. If I had a vote, I'd say that splitting sessions (AM/PM) for the young kids and the older kids would improve the experience substantially for the kids and the families. IUPsych WOW! very well put Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mtv2112 Posted March 1, 2011 Share Posted March 1, 2011 I disagree...if you want to strengthen the sport you should be thinking about the attrition rate much, much earlier. At the elementary level, the attrition rate in youth wrestling is substantially higher than other sports, especially for first year wrestlers. I'd bet my house on that. Shoot, I'd say the percentage of new kids that leave wrestling DURING the season is higher than the attrition rate between seasons in Little League baseball, football, basketball, and soccer. Yes, wrestling is a hard sport, and I think life long wrestling folks like to point to that as the primary reason kids quit...but from what I have experienced that is not the primary reason young kids don't stick with it. In actuality it is the families that quit. I have seen many, many families drop wrestling because of the awful tournament experiences. They go to one or two tournaments and say enough is enough. There are some very good athletes with very committed and supportive families that leave the sport early. If my son didn't like wrestling so much you can rest assured that I wouldn't subject myself and the rest of the family to another Sunday in Hades. I'm not going to list the horrors of the Sunday wrestling experience (and I'm talking about the stuff not associated with the actual matches) because you all are familiar with them. This is coming from someone who didn't grow up wrestling so perhaps my view of the sport and the youth tournament experience is different that most of you. I respect the heck out of the sport and am in awe of what it takes to get good and stay good. I suppose I am representing the group of parents who could give two turds whether their kid becomes a state champion wrestler. Having said that, I hope that he sticks with it for a long time because there are so many positive aspects of the sport. In terms of the challenge and competition, there is no other sport like it. To me the solution to improving the attrition rate is to improve the youth tournament experience. If I had a vote, I'd say that splitting sessions (AM/PM) for the young kids and the older kids would improve the experience substantially for the kids and the families. IUPsych I agree but would also add that not all kids are exposed to the standard tournament experience (whether bad or good) as part of their first few years of wrestling. An elementary season may simply consist of home/away dual meets followed by an individual tournament between feeder schools. What I think can drive families away, in addition to the stuff you pointed out, is poor match making on the part of the coaches. If you send a lamb onto the mat against a lion, tears are not far away. This scares off the kid and/or the parents. You have to be careful putting the match together to avoid those overwhelming mismatches. It doesn't really do anything for either wrestler at that age group. Just my two cents. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Y2CJ41 Posted March 1, 2011 Share Posted March 1, 2011 While all sports have a high attrition rate, wrestling cannot afford it as much as baseball, basketball and football because we do not have the same numbers at the youth levels as those sports. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
currentwrestler Posted March 1, 2011 Share Posted March 1, 2011 While all sports have a high attrition rate, wrestling cannot afford it as much as baseball, basketball and football because we do not have the same numbers at the youth levels as those sports. Also a very good point! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
snoopy Posted March 2, 2011 Share Posted March 2, 2011 As David Letterman would say: The top ten reasons not to wrestle in high school. 10. Got a car, got to work 9. It's gay (any definition of gay) 8. Got my butt kicked. Rookie vs the other teams stud. 7. How many of my Saturdays do I have to waste! 6. Don't want to cut weight 5. Rather be a boy lifter, and lift the cheerleaders. 4. Playing college, baseball, track, football, etc. Don't want to risk getting hurt, and I've got to train. 3. Not fun 2. Practice is getting like a job 1. It's too hard. (various definitions and stories) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rdrodd1 Posted March 4, 2011 Share Posted March 4, 2011 I agree but would also add that not all kids are exposed to the standard tournament experience (whether bad or good) as part of their first few years of wrestling. An elementary season may simply consist of home/away dual meets followed by an individual tournament between feeder schools. What I think can drive families away, in addition to the stuff you pointed out, is poor match making on the part of the coaches. If you send a lamb onto the mat against a lion, tears are not far away. This scares off the kid and/or the parents. You have to be careful putting the match together to avoid those overwhelming mismatches. It doesn't really do anything for either wrestler at that age group. Just my two cents. This is my first year with my 4 year old grandson in the wrestling room...I am not trying to thrust him into wrestling but I am trying to give him a chance to excel at it.....The coach told me what to expect and he was right when he told me that 4 year old's have the attention span of a pencil.....Just make sure that they have fun. Sure, I would love to see my grandson in his first match and the reason that I chose the club that he would first attend was the fact that this coach will not let him wrestle until he is ready. He will not let my pride and joy go out there and get pummeled by another kid that will discourage him from wanting to come back... His coach, from what I have seen and from what I have been told is really great with little kids even when they are being disruptive in the wrestling room but he always tries to make time even for the very young kids to make sure that they are having fun.... His coach, being a State Champ and raising a couple of wrestlers himself, that are doing quite well, I am sure he and his great group of wrestling coaches know what they are talking about... I know that I am rambling but my objective is to keep my grandson's, that don't know their father, off of the mean streets and give them the greatest opportunity to become great young productive men...This is why I think that wrestling gives these kids a future....Most will not be great but from what I have witnessed, almost all of the wrestlers that I have watched grow up become very good young men.... I agree with some of the very long weekend tournaments as I have experienced these with my son and nephews growing up but it needs to be a family affair with plenty of junk food to eat and let the kids run wild LOL...All in all, would you rather go out for a weekend of camping/boating just to see the good old Indiana weather wash your weekend out or spend your weekend trying to make good for your child/grandchild to advance their future....I personally will sacrifice my weekends for Papaw's boys and then let them tell me all of the lies about how they beat everybody.....LOL Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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