jag Posted February 13, 2011 Share Posted February 13, 2011 I was setting here reading this and thinking if the clock failed to start shouldnt the 5 sec. come off the clock not be added to it ??? This is a great point!! What really happened did they really add 10 seconds to this match? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MatChick76 Posted February 13, 2011 Share Posted February 13, 2011 This sounds like a terrible situation. At E'ville SS, at least one match the clock ran down about 10 seconds after the ref called out of bounds. The match was stopped and the clock was fixed immediately. That's what you're supposed to do....leaving it in the hands of the refs to do a 5 second count is too biased...we've all seen different reffing styles...you get one ref who counts out so slow the kid's on his back for 10 sec and they get 2 nearfall...the next guy refs a kid on his back for 3 sec and he's already got a 5 count. Sounds like bad decisions all around. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
learntherules Posted February 13, 2011 Share Posted February 13, 2011 Joe Kieffer was only one of several wrestlers to get robbed yesterday by the New Castle Officiating crew. Specifically there was one crew of three officials who constantly had drama on their mat. They managed to consistently mishandle routine situations. Anyone at New Castle knows exactly what crew I am referring to. It is sad to see such horrendous officiating at a high level tournament that deccides whether or not a kid will reach a goal he has been working towards for years. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
decbell1 Posted February 13, 2011 Share Posted February 13, 2011 Lol, if the referees can't understand the concept of time, they should probably retire. I will say however, if the coaches weren't smart enough to figure out that they actually extended the match even more, instead of bringing it back to its normal time, then their kid was robbed by his coaches, not his officials. I guarantee you that if the coach had simply told him that they should have stopped the match with :05 left instead of adding five on, that he would have won the argument, and Mr. Keiffer would have been wrestling next weekend. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WarrenCentralWrestlingFan Posted February 13, 2011 Share Posted February 13, 2011 The Refs Were Horrible Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blazergrapler83 Posted February 13, 2011 Share Posted February 13, 2011 what is nice about all of this is that the group of officials that had issues all day will probably be chosen to do the state tournament. Ya one of them will probably be awarded official of the year too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rebels4life Posted February 13, 2011 Share Posted February 13, 2011 I did not start the post, but I am glad someone did. Until someone from Roncalli Staff comments on all the details we will continue scratch our heads. I was/am still very dishearten by the result. I wish nothing but the best of Luck to the his opponent next week. It was a very good match between two great wrestlers battling it out for right to be in the big show. After several hours later I briefly had a very productive chat with the official. He explained to me what had happen, my question to him was if you had to make the same decision again would you reset the clock. Or at least let everyone know what was happening. Do both wrestlers have the right to know that clock is off by 5 seconds ? Are you going to count loud enough, so we all know time is going to expire? Should Joe wrestle until the sound of a whistle? Yes.. I will say to his defense that it was extremely loud. At the same time this was unfolding, there was some other major conflict occurring on another mat. Someone was on the loud speaker attempting to gain control of a situation. It was very loud. We hold our children accountable for everything. I am held accountable at my workplace. When you make a bad decision you need to own up to it. Reflect, tell yourself I will try to do better. All I want to happen, is learn something. If you ever have this happen again, is communicate with the coaches,wrestlers so everyone knows what is really going on. Resetting the clock IMO would have resolved the problem. To take this away from a child, who spends his entire year preparing for this event is wrong. His opponent might of take him down in o.t. and won. As official would you not feel better that at least you realize a mistake in the clock and attempted clear it up so everyone knows. I would hope so. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mickswife Posted February 13, 2011 Share Posted February 13, 2011 I believe the issue with the time was that they went out of bounds once and the clock wasn't stopped. How is counting in your head 5 seconds after the clock runs out even a viable option in this situation? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
edb41 Posted February 13, 2011 Share Posted February 13, 2011 That had to be a "somebody's brother-in-law" crew, that's the only way officials that weak could be doing a semi-state. Every time they had a tight match it was like watching a train wreck. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ekocottonball Posted February 14, 2011 Share Posted February 14, 2011 This is a situation I would go to court over. I hate being that way. Normally, I would say just let it go. But this goes beyond a bad call. It reminds me of the situation after the Olympic Trials where someone had to go to court. One of the worst robberies I have ever witnessed. Kieffer and his family deserve better from the IHSAA. If IHSAA hasn't offered to fix the situation already, I say go to court at 8 a.m. tomorrow and fix the problem yourself. And when you win (and I ran this by two different lawyers who both thought there was a strong case), I would ask the officials be suspended. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wrastler2334 Posted February 14, 2011 Share Posted February 14, 2011 How u gonna go to court over a bad call? Like really? Cumin people it happent. You can't do anything about it let it go don't be silly Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
boilergrappler Posted February 14, 2011 Share Posted February 14, 2011 This is a situation I would go to court over. I hate being that way. Normally, I would say just let it go. But this goes beyond a bad call. It reminds me of the situation after the Olympic Trials where someone had to go to court. One of the worst robberies I have ever witnessed. Kieffer and his family deserve better from the IHSAA. If IHSAA hasn't offered to fix the situation already, I say go to court at 8 a.m. tomorrow and fix the problem yourself. And when you win (and I ran this by two different lawyers who both thought there was a strong case), I would ask the officials be suspended. Are you kiddin' Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Madden11 Posted February 14, 2011 Share Posted February 14, 2011 Something similar happened at the Fort Wayne semi-state ticket round at 189.... anyone see that? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
X_R A T E D Posted February 14, 2011 Share Posted February 14, 2011 Wat match at ft wayne and wat happened? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Madden11 Posted February 14, 2011 Share Posted February 14, 2011 neff and siddons match Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rookies03 Posted February 14, 2011 Share Posted February 14, 2011 Im not sure what taking the IHSAA to court would do. The rule book says that corrections can be made prior to the next match starting. So the IHSAA has a process in place to correct errors. If such process were not followed I do not see how the IHSAA would be liable. Plus that would be a lot of re-wrestling!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RAGUOC79 Posted February 14, 2011 Share Posted February 14, 2011 one got "robbed" the other "lucky", it was a very interesting weekend, Good luck to all at Conseco Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fanatic46041 Posted February 14, 2011 Share Posted February 14, 2011 Must not have been that bad of a call, Bobby Cox didn't step in like he did the harvey-borta match,END OF DISCUSSION!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bellmontfan Posted February 14, 2011 Share Posted February 14, 2011 Why did he get put to his back in the first place? If the refs would not have called the pin, then we would have a bunch of angry fans saying that kieffer was pinned due to the time issue. When it comes down to it, wrestlers decide the match, not the refs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
frigginhurts Posted February 14, 2011 Share Posted February 14, 2011 OK OK OK....how are we supposed to believe anything about this match when the people explaining things can't even get the facts straight. There is no way the clocked was started late then five extra seconds after it hit zero they were still wrestling. i think as someone pointed out, they ran off 5 extra seconds after they went out of bounds. Once again...people aren't giving the facts. Now, I DO BELIEVE that the ref should have fixed it right then and there when the 5 seconds were run off by putting five more back on BUT in the grand scheme of things, Kieffer should have KEPT WRESTLING as the other kid did...the "other" kid didn't stop wrestling until the whistle blew, DID HE? Can anyone dispute this logic? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kristiross Posted February 14, 2011 Share Posted February 14, 2011 I agree. The officiating at New Castle is the worse yet that I have seen from so called HS refs. These kids work long and hard all year to have to leave it in the hands of officials who can't get up or down on the mats... WE EXPECT KIDS TO ACT CERTAIN WAYS, STAY IN GOOD POSITION, ETC ETC. Or there are consequences. What are the consequences for OFFICIALS when they make horrible calls, or are in the wrong position to call falls.. ?????? Oh, nothing.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fanatic46041 Posted February 14, 2011 Share Posted February 14, 2011 Ok i had the opportunity to talk to lance as well as the winner Jared Lawson today, lance and jarred were both unaware of the 5 seconds, and lance felt that the match best be served in overtime, and was upset(understandable) jarred was doing what i teach all my boys,"WRESTLE TILL THE REF TOUCHES YOU" , and this is why..."absolutely the correct thing to do", especially in a tournament with several whistles....So to say kieffer was dominate and got robbed is a bit far fetched cause we will never know the outcome if the match had went into overtime as jarred might have still won...as far as the 5 sec run off, as a coach it happens all the time that a ref runs it off in his head(disagree with) BUT DOES HAPPEN as for ridiculing jarred, and saying he was LUCKY, we have enough negative publicity in our sport right now,that we need more praise...as for the "terrible officiating" if you feel it was that bad then please go take the $75 open book test and display you knowledge to the whole state,until then accept what you get...Yes i am from FRANKFORT, and no i was not there ,thats why i talked lance personally...congratulations Jarred hope all serves well at state... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rebels4life Posted February 14, 2011 Share Posted February 14, 2011 You can believe what you want. He will be better person for this, that I promise you. I never said he got lucky. If you think that this official made the right choice by not fixing the time when he knew about it 45 seconds prior, then you have that right. When it happens to one of your own, hope you feel the same. If you want to blame Joe for letting up on a grip when he was obvious looking at the clock, do that also. If you want this official to learn something, like just reset the clock, I would hope we all would agree. This was not created to lay fault on the Frankfort wrestler. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Devils27 Posted February 14, 2011 Share Posted February 14, 2011 Ok i had the opportunity to talk to lance as well as the winner Jared Lawson today, lance and jarred were both unaware of the 5 seconds, and lance felt that the match best be served in overtime, and was upset(understandable) jarred was doing what i teach all my boys,"WRESTLE TILL THE REF TOUCHES YOU" , and this is why..."absolutely the correct thing to do", especially in a tournament with several whistles....So to say kieffer was dominate and got robbed is a bit far fetched cause we will never know the outcome if the match had went into overtime as jarred might have still won...as far as the 5 sec run off, as a coach it happens all the time that a ref runs it off in his head(disagree with) BUT DOES HAPPEN as for ridiculing jarred, and saying he was LUCKY, we have enough negative publicity in our sport right now,that we need more praise...as for the "terrible officiating" if you feel it was that bad then please go take the $75 open book test and display you knowledge to the whole state,until then accept what you get...Yes i am from FRANKFORT, and no i was not there ,thats why i talked lance personally...congratulations Jarred hope all serves well at state... Well said sir! Unfortunate series of events but someone has to lose and someone has to win. It doesn't seem like we have the whole story because it seems like a wrestler with such a tradition of the sport in wrestling wouldn't just let someone pin him. I didn't even like letting my little brother fake pin me growing up because its something that your taught from very early on. Ticket round of semi-state come on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
frigginhurts Posted February 14, 2011 Share Posted February 14, 2011 Ok i had the opportunity to talk to lance as well as the winner Jared Lawson today, lance and jarred were both unaware of the 5 seconds, and lance felt that the match best be served in overtime, and was upset(understandable) jarred was doing what i teach all my boys,"WRESTLE TILL THE REF TOUCHES YOU" , and this is why..."absolutely the correct thing to do", especially in a tournament with several whistles....So to say kieffer was dominate and got robbed is a bit far fetched cause we will never know the outcome if the match had went into overtime as jarred might have still won...as far as the 5 sec run off, as a coach it happens all the time that a ref runs it off in his head(disagree with) BUT DOES HAPPEN as for ridiculing jarred, and saying he was LUCKY, we have enough negative publicity in our sport right now,that we need more praise...as for the "terrible officiating" if you feel it was that bad then please go take the $75 open book test and display you knowledge to the whole state,until then accept what you get...Yes i am from FRANKFORT, and no i was not there ,thats why i talked lance personally...congratulations Jarred hope all serves well at state... couldn't agree more. would have liked to have seen it settled in OT but you wrestle until the ref taps you or you hear HIS whistle. Can anyone confirm with 100% certainty that "clock-gate" happened because 5 extra seconds ran off the clock AFTER they went out of bounds and that it wasn't because the clock started late? also - not to throw ANOTHER monkey wrench in this but was the clock keeper aware of what the ref was doing? What if the clock keeper stopped the clock late when they went out of bounds and so when the match resumed he started the clock 5 seconds late on his own without the ref knowing this and the ref was thinking the whole time that he would run off the 5 seconds after the clock hit zero? I guess the best thing to do is take a stop watch out and time the last period and see where it stands. If it's right around 2 minutes then Kieffer didn't "get screwed" if its actually 2:05 then I will say it should have went to OT. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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