RANKINGS UPDATED

[KarlHungus]

I just love when people come on to tell everyone how great they are. But in all caps, bold, and underlined. Bryce, you just made my day.

 

BRYCE is on my radar now.

[devildog47959]

Talked to him Friday and he said he was staying at 215. Stevenson is at 189. Sounds like a smart plan because he'll probably play football in college and not wrestle.

 

160 to 215 I still find that a big Jump, 40+ pounds.. Did he hit the weights hard & drink a protein shake at every meal or what! With that much extra weight I wonder if he will still have the speed & agility that he had at 160. If he does, he will be very tough to beat

[RankingsGuy]

I know that doing the rankings are tough and I respect the people who puts the time in to do it. But here is just a thought and I have notices the same tread every year.

 

FOR EXAMPLE... A kid wrestles 112 one year and does make it out of his regional. Then the next year the same 112 kid is now 130 and is ranked in the State or Semi-State rankings. But a kid that wrestled 130 one year and makes to Semi-State and is still at 130 the following year isn't even ranked in the State or Semi-State.

 

So what makes the 112 kid who is now 130, higher ranked then a returning Semi-State 130 kid?

 

 

I'd love to be able to answer your question, which I always ask for in all of my posts, but I have a hard time doing so without you being more specific.  Could you please use names and schools and restate your question?  That way I'd gladly answer your inquiry.

[youngone]

I know that doing the rankings are tough and I respect the people who puts the time in to do it. But here is just a thought and I have notices the same tread every year.

 

FOR EXAMPLE... A kid wrestles 112 one year and does make it out of his regional. Then the next year the same 112 kid is now 130 and is ranked in the State or Semi-State rankings. But a kid that wrestled 130 one year and makes to Semi-State and is still at 130 the following year isn't even ranked in the State or Semi-State.

 

So what makes the 112 kid who is now 130, higher ranked then a returning Semi-State 130 kid?

 

Could you please use names and schools and restate your question?

 

That is exactly the problem if your a returning 112 going to 130 and you go to a notable school and or have a name i.e. prestigious family, then you are in the in crowd and will be ranked. It's not last years performance that matters. I give you Garcia from Merrillville ranked at 119, he didnt even make out of the first round of semi-state at 112 and is ranked 4th 119, where as a kid like Jordan Hicks makes it to state at 125 and barely makes the ranking board this week at 16 but previously wasn't ranked because he goes to Seeger.(oh by the way Garcia was knocked out by a Seeger kid who isn't ranked at 112) I think you get my point here that its the school not the wrestler. You can't get accurate rankings with one voter anyways there has to be a committee of people who need to make a good ranking board because good kids from less than stellar schools are always overlooked. Not saying it will fix everything but the more eyes watching and the more minds deliberation the better and more understandable the whole picture will look.

[RankingsGuy]

 

 

That is exactly the problem if your a returning 112 going to 130 and you go to a notable school and or have a name i.e. prestigious family, then you are in the in crowd and will be ranked. It's not last years performance that matters. I give you Garcia from Merrillville ranked at 119, he didnt even make out of the first round of semi-state at 112 and is ranked 4th 119, where as a kid like Jordan Hicks makes it to state at 125 and barely makes the ranking board this week at 16 but previously wasn't ranked because he goes to Seeger.(oh by the way Garcia was knocked out by a Seeger kid who isn't ranked at 112) I think you get my point here that its the school not the wrestler. You can't get accurate rankings with one voter anyways there has to be a committee of people who need to make a good ranking board because good kids from less than stellar schools are always overlooked. Not saying it will fix everything but the more eyes watching and the more minds deliberation the better and more understandable the whole picture will look.

 

To speak to your question directly, Adam Garcia was placed at #4 at 119 not because he attends Merrillville HS, but rather for the fact that he soundly beat Danny Rodriguez of Highland and Brandon Coppinger of Portage last season (both state qualifiers at 112).  About nobody would have predicted that Adam Garcia would not have made it to state last year after seeing the semi-state draw.  You are correct in the fact that he lost to a Seeger wrestler at semi-state, my defense to that point would be that Garcia's entire body of work is much, much stronger than that Seeger wrestler's body of work throughout the season.  Not many would argue that Adam Garcia is not a better wrestler than the Seeger wrestler, but Garcia happened to be caught in a neck-wrench in that opening round of semi-state, so on that day, you are correct, the Seeger wrestler was better.  As far as Jordan Hicks, I argue that again, the complete body of work of the wrestlers ahead of him exceed his one state qualification out of the quarterfinal that he won with freshmen Hartman from Clay and Schurg from Crown Point.  The only wrestlers who have no state experience ahead of Hicks are Slagle, Padilla, and McGinley.  Slagle may be the most improved wrestler in the whole state in my opinion and I expect him to become the favorite to win the Merrillville Semi-State as the season progresses.  According to accounts, he's competing with and even beating wrestlers such as Coppinger and Halsted of Crown Point in the practice room this pre-season at RWA.  Al Padilla of Merrillville wrestled two different 1 point matches with state champion Anthony Hawkins, which makes him better than Hicks in my opinion.  Charlie McGinley, the last of the non-state qualifiers at 125, already has a win this year over Ben Sommer of Carmel, who had an overall better body of work last season than Hicks, in my opinion, as well as having much more impressive ISWA results than Hicks.  I hope this helps.

[AJ]

To speak to your question directly, Adam Garcia was placed at #4 at 119 not because he attends Merrillville HS, but rather for the fact that he soundly beat Danny Rodriguez of Highland and Brandon Coppinger of Portage last season (both state qualifiers at 112).  About nobody would have predicted that Adam Garcia would not have made it to state last year after seeing the semi-state draw.  You are correct in the fact that he lost to a Seeger wrestler at semi-state, my defense to that point would be that Garcia's entire body of work is much, much stronger than that Seeger wrestler's body of work throughout the season.  Not many would argue that Adam Garcia is not a better wrestler than the Seeger wrestler, but Garcia happened to be caught in a neck-wrench in that opening round of semi-state, so on that day, you are correct, the Seeger wrestler was better.  As far as Jordan Hicks, I argue that again, the complete body of work of the wrestlers ahead of him exceed his one state qualification out of the quarterfinal that he won with freshmen Hartman from Clay and Schurg from Crown Point.  The only wrestlers who have no state experience ahead of Hicks are Slagle, Padilla, and McGinley.  Slagle may be the most improved wrestler in the whole state in my opinion and I expect him to become the favorite to win the Merrillville Semi-State as the season progresses.  According to accounts, he's competing with and even beating wrestlers such as Coppinger and Halsted of Crown Point in the practice room this pre-season at RWA.  Al Padilla of Merrillville wrestled two different 1 point matches with state champion Anthony Hawkins, which makes him better than Hicks in my opinion.  Charlie McGinley, the last of the non-state qualifiers at 125, already has a win this year over Ben Sommer of Carmel, who had an overall better body of work last season than Hicks, in my opinion, as well as having much more impressive ISWA results than Hicks.  I hope this helps.

 

Wow, and to think you go through all of this for 13 other weight classes.... 

[RankingsGuy]

Wow, and to think you go through all of this for 13 other weight classes....   

 

It's a labor of love.  I wouldn't do it, if I didn't enjoy it, as it's a hell of a lot of work.  That said, I take it very seriously and have thoroughly thought through each and every weight class as to be able to give adequate explanations to curious fans.

[bryce]

I just love when people come on to tell everyone how great they are. But in all caps, bold, and underlined. Bryce, you just made my day.

yea..sorry if you took this the wrong way..im not just trying to show off or anything..im just representing my school in a good way

NOBODY ever talks about LC.. i just wanna get us know out there this year .thats all man

[youngone]

To speak to your question directly, Adam Garcia was placed at #4 at 119 not because he attends Merrillville HS, but rather for the fact that he soundly beat Danny Rodriguez of Highland and Brandon Coppinger of Portage last season (both state qualifiers at 112).  About nobody would have predicted that Adam Garcia would not have made it to state last year after seeing the semi-state draw.  You are correct in the fact that he lost to a Seeger wrestler at semi-state, my defense to that point would be that Garcia's entire body of work is much, much stronger than that Seeger wrestler's body of work throughout the season.  Not many would argue that Adam Garcia is not a better wrestler than the Seeger wrestler, but Garcia happened to be caught in a neck-wrench in that opening round of semi-state, so on that day, you are correct, the Seeger wrestler was better.  As far as Jordan Hicks, I argue that again, the complete body of work of the wrestlers ahead of him exceed his one state qualification out of the quarterfinal that he won with freshmen Hartman from Clay and Schurg from Crown Point.  The only wrestlers who have no state experience ahead of Hicks are Slagle, Padilla, and McGinley.  Slagle may be the most improved wrestler in the whole state in my opinion and I expect him to become the favorite to win the Merrillville Semi-State as the season progresses.  According to accounts, he's competing with and even beating wrestlers such as Coppinger and Halsted of Crown Point in the practice room this pre-season at RWA.  Al Padilla of Merrillville wrestled two different 1 point matches with state champion Anthony Hawkins, which makes him better than Hicks in my opinion.  Charlie McGinley, the last of the non-state qualifiers at 125, already has a win this year over Ben Sommer of Carmel, who had an overall better body of work last season than Hicks, in my opinion, as well as having much more impressive ISWA results than Hicks.  I hope this helps.

 

I am not saying Garcia isn't a very good wrestler, but I was right in answering the prior question that the prior seasons ending results and prior weight class mean nothing if you are from better school you are afforded better opportunities. The only considerations taken are the one you see fit. I see you are still neglecting to take hicks' win over catron into consideration, which is ok because they wrestle in late Dec anyway that is if there is not some strange reason for them not too. Its like the kid has the plague for wrestling at a small school from which has few accomplishments. Slagle wrestled 130 last weekend and if he is going 125 why on earth would you not make 125 and take a shot at wrestling Kieffer from Roncalli just my opinion there, not saying he didn't want to wrestle him but you have to seize an opportunity like that. Also Hicks' 3 loss last season were not anything to be ashamed of and he never missed a match or sat out against anybody and often time bumped up a weight class chasing a better match. Yea his schedule is lacking but it's a far better schedule than Seeger's previous schedules. Since 2008 they have been dropping lesser tournaments and Duals as they have final been invited to much better tournaments for above average performances by a small school. A body of work is important but isn't everything your putting into the equation, and to say school doesn't matter at all is just absurd because school is a big factor. What body of work does Slagle have who has he beat you didn't mention anything other than he is greatly improved but hey he is a region kid from griffith. 1 point matches are tough performances against State Champs but they are still losses. I remember Green the 215 third placer from Kokomo last season had an out there performance at his holiday tournament winning 9 match by a spread of less than 15 points with 2 triple over times and another overtime match as well. A loss to him by a 1 point isn't really an accomplishment. McGinley's win over Sommer is impressive but Sommer has pretty much the same resume as Hicks only now he has a loss, being ahead of hicks still a stretch. And back to the original issue Qualifying for state at 112 and moving up 2 weight classes verses Qualifying at state and staying the same weight the value of having experience at a weight class seems to be what is undermined.

 

So that is my question how do you justify putting a state qualifier of a lower weight above a state qualifier staying at his previous weight, quality wins for the kid is kind of a lesser topic here because the quality wins from last season are at that lower weight.

[J_Warren103]

rankings really dont matter right now..at the end of the year we'll see whos really the best in the state

[Y2CJ41]

I think I should be ranked.

[wrestler60160]

RG.......this is why your paid the big bucks... ;D

[wrestler60160]

As of matter of fact, I would ask Joe for a Christmas bonus.

[jwkwrestler12]

I am not saying Garcia isn't a very good wrestler, but I was right in answering the prior question that the prior seasons ending results and prior weight class mean nothing if you are from better school you are afforded better opportunities. The only considerations taken are the one you see fit. I see you are still neglecting to take hicks' win over catron into consideration, which is ok because they wrestle in late Dec anyway that is if there is not some strange reason for them not too. Its like the kid has the plague for wrestling at a small school from which has few accomplishments. Slagle wrestled 130 last weekend and if he is going 125 why on earth would you not make 125 and take a shot at wrestling Kieffer from Roncalli just my opinion there, not saying he didn't want to wrestle him but you have to seize an opportunity like that. Also Hicks' 3 loss last season were not anything to be ashamed of and he never missed a match or sat out against anybody and often time bumped up a weight class chasing a better match. Yea his schedule is lacking but it's a far better schedule than Seeger's previous schedules. Since 2008 they have been dropping lesser tournaments and Duals as they have final been invited to much better tournaments for above average performances by a small school. A body of work is important but isn't everything your putting into the equation, and to say school doesn't matter at all is just absurd because school is a big factor. What body of work does Slagle have who has he beat you didn't mention anything other than he is greatly improved but hey he is a region kid from griffith. 1 point matches are tough performances against State Champs but they are still losses. I remember Green the 215 third placer from Kokomo last season had an out there performance at his holiday tournament winning 9 match by a spread of less than 15 points with 2 triple over times and another overtime match as well. A loss to him by a 1 point isn't really an accomplishment. McGinley's win over Sommer is impressive but Sommer has pretty much the same resume as Hicks only now he has a loss, being ahead of hicks still a stretch. And back to the original issue Qualifying for state at 112 and moving up 2 weight classes verses Qualifying at state and staying the same weight the value of having experience at a weight class seems to be what is undermined.

 

So that is my question how do you justify putting a state qualifier of a lower weight above a state qualifier staying at his previous weight, quality wins for the kid is kind of a lesser topic here because the quality wins from last season are at that lower weight.

I thought I'd address your comment about larger schools.  To me, RankingsGuy doesn't base anything on where you are at, or how big your school is.  You are complaining about Seeger and being smaller for a reason, it may have to do with them not having as difficult of a schedule as other shcools.  A lot of larger schools do have more difficult schedules, thus putting the kids that wrestle there in the rankings more often.  Try not to stress this much over the rankings and just be thankful that they are there.  I've seen plenty of state rankings, and these rankings are top notch.  

[AJ]

rankings really dont matter right now..at the end of the year we'll see whos really the best in the state

 

but great for discussion.....

[DLane]

What I'm guessing you meant was did not qualify for semi-state. The only 112 pounders ranked at 130 are Patrick Parham and Brayden Montgomery and both of them did make it to semi-state. If this is not what you were talking about then I apologize but it looked like you made a typo.

 

I was just using those weights as an exmaple....it was really just an over all statement.

[RankingsGuy]

I thought it would be interesting to see how each regional has fared at the state's toughest semi-state, Merrillville, over the last 5 years.. here is the breakdown (for those of you unfamiliar with the geographic distribution, I will include those that were State Champs and Runners-Up from each Regional) *Note that the Calumet and LaPorte regionals combined is the area often referred to as "Da Region":

 

2010: Calumet- 11 State Qualifiers, 7 of those were Medalists

2009: Calumet- 12 State Qualifiers, 8 of those were Medalists

2008: Calumet- 14 State Qualifiers, 9 of those were Medalists

2007: Calumet- 14 State Qualifiers, 8 of those were Medalists

2006: Calumet- 14 State Qualifiers, 7 of those were Medalists

2006-2010 Calumet SQ: 65

2006-2010 Calumet Medalists: 39

2006-2010 Calumet Friday Night at State Winning Percentage: 60.0%

State Champs from Calumet from 2006-2010: 10

(Kyle Ayersman-Lake Central, Frankie Porras-Hobart 2x, Brennan Cosgrove-Hobart, Eric Galka-Hobart, Eric McGill-Munster 2x, Jamal Lawrence-Merrillville, Javier Salas-Merrillville, Dexter Larimore-Merrillville)

Runners-Up from Calumet from 2006-2010: 5

(James Travis-Merrillville, Frankie Porras-Hobart, Eric Galka-Hobart, Brennan Cosgrove-Hobart 2x)

 

2010: LaPorte- 14 State Qualifiers, 9 of those were Medalists

2009: LaPorte- 15 State Qualifiers, 13 of those were Medalists

2008: LaPorte- 15 State Qualifiers, 10 of those were Medalists

2007: LaPorte- 17 State Qualifiers, 12 of those were Medalists

2006: LaPorte- 14 State Qualifiers, 9 of those were Medalists

2006-2010 LaPorte SQ: 75

2006-2010 LaPorte Medalists: 53

2006-2010 LaPorte Friday Night at State Winning Percentage: 70.66%

State Champs from LaPorte from 2006-2010: 14

(Eric Roach-Crown Point, Nathan Cleveland-Lowell, Anthony Hawkins-Crown Point, Jason Tsirtsis-Crown Point 2x, Sean McMurray- Portage 3x, Marcus Shrewsbury-Crown Point, Tom Churchard- Valparaiso, Andrew Howe-Hanover Central 3x, Chad Biddle-Portage)

Runners-Up from LaPorte from 2006-2010: 10

(Paul Petrov-Hanover Central, Danny Bradley-Knox, Anthony Quiroz-Chesterton, Eric Roach-Crown Point, Marcus Shrewsbury-Crown Point, Tom Churchard-Valparaiso, Andy St. Germain-Chesterton, Phillip Oudhuis-New Prairie, Derek Traversa-John Glenn, Adam Walters-Portage)

 

2010: Logansport- 10 State Qualifiers, 3 of those were Medalists

2009: Logansport- 12 State Qualifiers, 4 of those were Medalists

2008: Logansport- 8 State Qualifiers, 2 of those were Medalists

2007: Logansport- 6 State Qualifiers, 1 of those were a Medalist

2006: Logansport- 8 State Qualifiers, 3 of those were Medalists

2006-2010 Logansport SQ: 44

2006-2010 Logansport Medalists: 13

2006-2010 Logansport Friday Night at State Winning Percentage: 29.55%

State Champs from Logansport from 2006-2010: 0

Runners-Up from Logansport from 2006-2010: 2

(Braden Atwood-Delphi, Travis Dale-McCutcheon)

 

2010: Rochester- 21 State Qualifiers, 11 of those were Medalists

2009: Rochester- 17 State Qualifiers, 10 of those were Medalists

2008: Rochester- 19 State Qualifiers, 14 of those were Medalists

2007: Rochester- 19 State Qualifiers, 13 of those were Medalists

2006: Rochester- 20 State Qualifiers, 13 of those were Medalists

2006-2010 Rochester SQ: 96

2006-2010 Rochester Medalists: 61

2006-2010 Rochester Friday Night at State Winning Percentage: 63.54%

State Champs from Rochester from 2006-2010: 10

(Steve Sandefer-Mishawaka 2x, Daniel Young-Culver Academies, Josh Harper-Mishawaka 3x, Ian Hinton-Mishawaka 2x, George Malone-South Bend Riley, Pat Day-Mishawaka)

Runners-Up from Rochester from 2006-2010: 4

(Paul Beck-Mishawaka, Christian Lentz-Mishawaka 2x, Cory Fornal-Rochester)

 

 

On average..

Rochester- 19.2 Qualifers per year, 12.2 Medalists per year, .8 Runners-Up per year, 2 State Champs per year

LaPorte- 15.0 Qualifiers per year, 10.6 Medalists per year, 2 Runners-Up per year, 2.8 State Champs per year

Calumet- 13.0 Qualifiers per year, 7.8 Medalists per year, 1 Runner-Up per year, 2 State Champs per year

Logansport- 8.8 Qualifiers per year, 2.6 Medalists per year, .4 Runners-Up per year, 0 State Champs per year

 

As is well documented, Logansport is the weakest, though they have been getting more qualifiers with the emergence of Delphi as a state power, however the State Champs, Runners-Up, and Medalists are pretty much all coming from Calumet, LaPorte, and Rochester.

 

YoungOne... it's hard to argue against the data!  The Logansport Regional comes into the Merrillville Semi-State every single year and gets throttled by the other 3 regionals.  Then, if they are lucky enough to sneak through to state, they've only got about a 30% chance of winning on Friday night at state, compared to the other regionals which have probabilities between 60 and 70%!  You're gonna have a hard time convincing me that more Logansport Regional kids (where Seeger hails from) need to be ranked.  Only a little over half of their regional champions even make it out of the semi-state, and of those 8 or 10, only 2 or 3 ever find themselves on the podium on Saturday night, and never on the top step.

[SlickRodz]

I think I should be ranked.

 

Rank maybe.......Ranked, no way!  :)

[Y2CJ41]

Rank maybe.......Ranked, no way!  :)

Don't make me list the ranked wrestlers I have teched in the practice room!  I don't want to embarrass them so I won't mention their names.

[Southern Single]

correct me if I am wrong, but location does matter to an extent. Because it seem that RG takes what he thinks is the four best from each semi state and ranks the in State according to what he believe those 16 kids outcome will be. But what do i know i from the south.

[Y2CJ41]

The rankings are not a prediction of the 16 state qualifiers.  It is an assessment of the to 16 people in the state regardless of semi-state.

[Grenadier2012]

I might have missed something but I don't feel like sifting through all the prior posts.  Did Boomsma cut back down to 103?

[MattM]

I might have missed something but I don't feel like sifting through all the prior posts.  Did Boomsma cut back down to 103?

 

The current word on the street has been Pike didn't return and Boomsma will be at 103.

[KarlHungus]

The current word on the street has been Pike didn't return and Boomsma will be at 103.

 

Tuff cut i bet

[SlickRodz]

Tuff cut i bet

 

Boomsma was a light 112 last year and came in preseason around 107. Certified at 103, Body Fat 7.8%. Not having any difficulities maintaining. He will be a beast at this weight! Taking his Senior season very seriously, started conditioning early and really has his "mind right".