How does your School handle this?

[Lock]

This was my note to our athletic director I'm currious to how most schools view this. I also know there are several programs in our state that allow this, many of them in our conference and many with no where near these credentials. Please leave names out of this topic for I still have two sons in school.

 

Mr. AD

 

  I spoke with a young man early this fall who graduated last spring that I ran into at the Home Depot and he expressed his excitement to have the opportunity to help out as a volunteer coach with our wrestling program I was excited for him and very excited for our team.  His name is not relevant for this topic but his accomplishments are he was Valedictorian 3 X State placer, 1 X State Champ and numerous national accolades to go with the above. He proceeded to tell me he was waiting on approval from the school. I periodically asked my son what was going on and when our new assitant  was coming up to the room, My son did not know and was disappointed as were myself and several others.

 

  I cannot think of a single person or program in this state that has a passion for wrestling weather it be a coach a father, a mother, or a high school wrestler who would not embrace this opportunity, for this young man is very unique and special. As a father who has followed this young mans storied career I would be forever grateful for any of his  qualities to rub off on my sons and our team. In this sport the slightest edge can be the difference in a kid advancing from one level to the next. Oh and what an edge he would have been and also probably the best role model I can think of in recent years.

 

  Now I know in the past we have had volunteer?s fresh out of high school and I recall no problems with them, and if there were I?m sure they would have been handled accordingly. I don?t see this as setting a poor precedence but rather more like snatching a golden egg. I contacted our athletic director and asked why this young man was not approved to be a volunteer assitant.  Its a real shame a gem like this got away.

 

 

This was his responce: at the end he states: Since I have been AD, we have had NO students ?fresh? out of high school coaching High School students.  This is not true.

Thanks for your email. There are many things about this that you are unaware.  Coach came to me with a request about a volunteer coach.  As you stated our policy is to not put the school corporation in a position of risk when we hire a coach. This goes for volunteers or paid coaches.  History has shown that athletes who just graduated from school have not attained the maturity to separate themselves as adults from High School athletes.  Also, just because a student was a ?good? kid at school, does not always mean they have attained that maturity. Several years ago,  Our School had a Valedictorian who got into some pretty severe trouble because of poor judgment and immaturity.  It is too much of a risk for students that are from our school and is an even greater risk for students who recently graduated from other schools in the area.  Although, this might take us away from getting some good coaches, temporarily,  it is a sound policy followed by most school corporations. As in all major decisions, our administrative team discussed the pro?s and con?s of this EXTENSIVELY.  We are confident we made the correct decision.

 

 

 

Since I have been AD, we have had NO students ?fresh? out of high school coaching High School students. 

 

 

 

 

 

[Justdo^it135]

I bet if the kid was a football or basketball stud in high school, and wanted to be a volunteer coach that there would be no problem with that. All this comes down to is the fact that AD's simply do not care about wrestling one way or another. I guess we don't bring in enough money, because really thats all they care about. This story is very troubling to me.

[navy80]

A school I was helping out in Maryland you had to be 21, because of the maturity level thing

 

[chambers]

Marty Deputy wrestled at Wood Memorial and  got the head coaching job the year after he graduated high school. He did a good job while he was there.

[Rookies03]

That is why blanket policies don't work. Have the individual interview with school board and make an educated decision on an individual basis. Some kids are more mature than others and this ind and program should not suffer because of a policy.

JMHO

[Lock]

I totally agree with you Rookies 03  Blanket policies are usually implemented to exclude a bad apple so the problem never has to be dealt with again. But it never fails it will eventually bite you in the ass even when the perfect situation arises.

 

Come on people this really struck a nerve with many of us I would appreciate some more input. I have read this site since its conception and I know there are several opinionated members on here how about a little love.

[Lock]

Our coaching staff went about this the correct way going thru the propper channels and it got them rejected.  I'll bet many programs pretty much have an open room with guest and former wrestlers popping in from time to time. Do you have to be a boarded coach to teach in the room during season?

[allchamp7]

i know at my old high schools room any former wrestlers are more than welcome to come in and help, even ones fresh out of highschool over their xmas breaks and what not. however, concerning being a full-time volunteer/coach i believe 21 and older

[pin2win1]

Lock, when i was in hs, all the coaches and volunteer's were older, but some out of high school guys came in to do some work and help out over xmas break. That being said, i understand the frustration, but working with hs kids in the past (in a non wrestling situation) and having fresh out of hs kids help out, would often cause some issues. Now, fortunately for me no legal issues were ever crossed, but I am also figuring numerous legal issues could come into play. For example...

 

lets say said fresh out of high school coach is with some old buddies who are still in hs and is messing around with him at practice. Then said coach hurts his old buddy goofing off. The parents of the buddy may sue the school saying that the coach is a representative of the school. At that point the school is screwed because of what once seemed an innocent addiction to their coaching staff.

 

Or worse off.....

 

Said fresh out of high school coach is dating a girl at the high school. Said high school coach and girl have a bad break up and accusations are thrown at the kid. Well since the kid worked at the school, the kid is still a representative of the school and he and the school could get into major legal trouble.

 

Now, I understand that the whole situation is frustrating, but one has to be clear and look at both sides of the issue and they can see the argument of both sides. I would say this, maybe said kid could work out with the school to to prepare for wrestling some open tournaments and not b considered a "volunteer assistant." Then at that point he is no longer a representative of the school, but gets to work out with the school and help out in the prcess.

 

 

[awood2]

If you have a son or daughter and they get into a car with an adult, then is it safe to say that you will hold that adult accountable for what happens to your child?  In some cases our children spend more time at school than they do with their parents.  It's not unreasonable to expect them to take preventative measures to protect student athletes (your child).  It is catch 22 for the school.  You want your child to have the best opportunities, but we expect the school to step up and take responsibility for risks that result in adverse consequences.

 

Let me backup for a second, blanket maturity policies based on age does not make sense to me.  Recently I was at a tournament with a friend who is a mother and has never seen wrestling before.  She had a completely different perspective than I.  I tend to focus on the mat surface.  She was focused on the coaches interactions away from the mat and she was appalled!  I have to admit that some of the things she pointed out were very disturbing.  My point is that I disagree with the age provision.  There are plenty coaches in a wide range of ages that don't act with maturity that matches their age.  Read your local paper and you will see fairly quickly that coaches in all sports & of all ages are making stupid mistakes.  However, the policy of screening volunteers is fair, basing it completely on age is worth raising concerns.

 

I myself am an administrator, and I just started volunteering as a wrestling coach this fall.  It was a surprise to my friends (not myself) that b/c I was from another school district I had to complete a background check and be interviewed by the AD.  I applaud the AD for giving me the same speech he would have given a complete stranger.  Although, this experience obviously upsets you now you need to also consider what if the situation where different and your child was placed at risk.  If it were me I would voice my concern and take some confidence in the fact that public schools are doing what's needed to protect your most valuable interest, YOUR CHILD. 

[Lock]

 

Now, I understand that the whole situation is frustrating, but one has to be clear and look at both sides of the issue and they can see the argument of both sides. I would say this, maybe said kid could work out with the school to to prepare for wrestling some open tournaments and not b considered a "volunteer assistant." Then at that point he is no longer a representative of the school, but gets to work out with the school and help out in the process.

 

 

I believe the purpose of going thru the administration was to make him legit  to where he could come up to the room on an as needed basis. I don't believe the AD would allow him to come up and train or practice as a non representative  like most schools do over X-mas break I'm sure that was also discussed, now you would have the insurance issues if he were not approved. That's all we were really wanting was some of his qualities to be seen, demonstrated  and absorbed by our own to be around a positive role model.

thanks for your input some good points made.

[fearless fly]

This was my note to our athletic director I'm currious to how most schools view this. I also know there are several programs in our state that allow this, many of them in our conference and many with no where near these credentials. Please leave names out of this topic for I still have two sons in school.

 

Mr. AD

 

 I spoke with a young man early this fall who graduated last spring that I ran into at the Home Depot and he expressed his excitement to have the opportunity to help out as a volunteer coach with our wrestling program I was excited for him and very excited for our team.  His name is not relevant for this topic but his accomplishments are he was Valedictorian 3 X State placer, 1 X State Champ and numerous national accolades to go with the above. He proceeded to tell me he was waiting on approval from the school. I periodically asked my son what was going on and when our new assitant  was coming up to the room, My son did not know and was disappointed as were myself and several others.

 

 I cannot think of a single person or program in this state that has a passion for wrestling weather it be a coach a father, a mother, or a high school wrestler who would not embrace this opportunity, for this young man is very unique and special. As a father who has followed this young mans storied career I would be forever grateful for any of his  qualities to rub off on my sons and our team. In this sport the slightest edge can be the difference in a kid advancing from one level to the next. Oh and what an edge he would have been and also probably the best role model I can think of in recent years.

 

 Now I know in the past we have had volunteer?s fresh out of high school and I recall no problems with them, and if there were I?m sure they would have been handled accordingly. I don?t see this as setting a poor precedence but rather more like snatching a golden egg. I contacted our athletic director and asked why this young man was not approved to be a volunteer assitant.   Its a real shame a gem like this got away.

 

 

This was his responce: at the end he states: Since I have been AD, we have had NO students ?fresh? out of high school coaching High School students.  This is not true.

Thanks for your email. There are many things about this that you are unaware.  Coach came to me with a request about a volunteer coach.  As you stated our policy is to not put the school corporation in a position of risk when we hire a coach. This goes for volunteers or paid coaches.  History has shown that athletes who just graduated from school have not attained the maturity to separate themselves as adults from High School athletes.  Also, just because a student was a ?good? kid at school, does not always mean they have attained that maturity. Several years ago,  Our School had a Valedictorian who got into some pretty severe trouble because of poor judgment and immaturity.  It is too much of a risk for students that are from our school and is an even greater risk for students who recently graduated from other schools in the area.  Although, this might take us away from getting some good coaches, temporarily,  it is a sound policy followed by most school corporations. As in all major decisions, our administrative team discussed the pro?s and con?s of this EXTENSIVELY.  We are confident we made the correct decision.

 

 

 

Since I have been AD, we have had NO students ?fresh? out of high school coaching High School students.  

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Good thing names are being left out cause I'm sure no one will pick up on who you are after such a detailed explanation of your situation.

 

[twinwrestlersmom]

*shrugs* I didn't pick up anything from it .........other than he was upset  about the young man being denied. I don't have any advice for you Lock other than maybe see if the young man could "tutor" your kids in some way away from the school.

[JakeandBreighton]

What's his name, we have paid positions open!

[TCWrestling]

I got hired on as an assistant coach last season, and at the time was only 20. The AD at the high school agreed that I was fully qualified for the position, but he was a little leary with my being only 20. My birthday is in Dec so I would turn 21 midway through the season. There are times in the room when everyone including the coaches are immature. We are wrestlers, thats what we do. As far as coaching during matches, I try to hold myself to a higher standard for the fact that I am a coach and I am still young. At my high school alumni wrestlers are always more than welcome to come in and role around with the kids whenever they want. At the school where I am coaching at now, it is the same policy. I think it depends a lot on what school you are at. Obviously powerhouse schools like Cathedral, Evansville Mater Dei, Mishawaka, etc are looking for experienced coaches, but at some of the smaller schools in the state, they have to take what they can get. Any wrestler who wants to coach after high school always has a dream to go back to their school and coach. Like I said, I think that it depends on what school system you are in, and from the sound of it Lock, your AD wants to put the athletes in safe situations. I see nothing wrong with it, but I don't agree with it either.

[Rookies03]

Pin2win,in ur two examples ur saying that a 21 year old couldn't have those same situations like hurting a wrestlers or dating a student.  Liability for the school is the same for a 20 year old or a 21 year old. If the administration does a good screening processes then they reduce their liability. 

[pin2win1]

Of course a 20 or 21 year old could do the same things.. however, I do believe that as the person gets older the chances begin to significantly reduce, not because the person is older but rather because person is less likely to know the people from that high school that well.

 

Fact is the schools have to cover their butts in a day and age when so many people are law suit happy over some of the smallest things and what sucks is that innocent people have to suffer for it. But I would rather the school be safe rather than lose a bunch of money over a law suit and have to drop certain programs due to budget cuts.

[theckman]

I DO know that volunteer coaches have to be approved by the school corp acoording to the IHSAA.  Back in the dark ages when I was coaching, we had graduated wrestlers come in whenever they wanted.  We didn't realize we were supposed to have them approved.  My last year, the father of one of our wrestlers kept asking when we were gonna have a certain person come and "beat on _____ and make him tougher!!"  That finally happened.  Shortly afterwards, the boy got pissed off at the head coach and made up some lies about him.  The father turned us to the IHSAA and our head coach got suspended for a few days, including one meet.  Schools need to be careful about who they let in to practice with their  wrestlers.  All it takes is one time to get your *** in hot water.

[MatChick76]

This is a very interesting situation, but one that is not unique. There are good arguments for both why the parents/coaches want to bring in the recent high school grad (can relate to the students, storied high school career gives him credibility with the kids, passion for the sport, etc.) and why the school chose not to allow it  (maturity level, liability, etc.).  Perhaps the best thing for this young man to do, if he does want to come back and coach, is to gain some experience with a local club team or feeder program...coaching young kids (esp. middle schoolers who suddenly woke up one morning and seem to know everything) can be painstaking and really try your patience...if he can prove that he's mature enough to handle those kids, and build himself a solid reputation, he will be giving the shool's AD exactly what he's looking for...proof that he's a good investment (low liability).  He may not get to jump in with both feet right now, but he will be able to build a solid foundation/platform for the future.  Just my two cents.

[awood1]

It's sad, but I am all over the place with this one BECAUSE the media manipulates the public viewpoint.  Case in point, a local kid is suing a school because his concerns of feeling pressure from other students was not recognized or followed up on to his satisfaction.  He was being picked on, and the school didn't come to a resolution that was satisfactory to him.

 

Now the interviews on the local news say, "Well the teachers should be looking out for this kid.  They should monitor his treatment and punish the kids that make him feel uncomfortable!"  HUH!?  WHAT!?!

 

So this kid wins the case and is awarded a large settlement (essentially sitting him up for life)...because the school didn't react strongly enough to protect him from feeling uncomfortable in class.  Could it have had something to do with the fact that he was flaunting his homosexuality?  Maybe, but the courts say that is his civil right and it has to be protected!!

 

That's tough for anyone to deal with.  Now you take a recent HS grad and put him in a room full of kids (increasingly there is a chance that includes females also!) and expect him to not only be "mature" but also able to navigate the mine field that protection of civil rights and the resulting litigation has all District's in fear of.

 

Parents operate under the belief (right or wrong) that District's bare the sole responsibility for the child's health and welfare once they get on the bus or set foot on campus.  When was the last time ANYTHING went south on a school campus and the news story interviewed people that said, "Well the kid was a bonehead /jack-off /slut /pot head /tramp /tease /skank /trouble maker/social deviant WHATEVER and there really wasn't much more the school could have done to stop him/her.  The kid is definitely the one at fault here!"  

 

Just imagine the interviews on campus when the scorned Sr. girlfriend of the recent grad or the puppy love stricken soph. girl tells the news how she was "molested" by the COACH!  Trust me the lead news story would not be "Skank gets her panties in a bunch when rejected."  But rather, "HS Wrestling coach accused of raping student..details at 11!"  How many folks want to step in front of the firestorm of litigation that follows that one!  Or something as simple as the kid that claims he isn't wrestling varsity because the "coach" is giving preferential treatment to his old buddies!!

 

A HC's job is filled with far more drama and politics than anyone should ever have to deal with.  I am sure that if he felt the risk/reward was worth it, he would have fought hard(er) to get the kid in to the room.  But if ANYTHING goes south, it's his a$$ in the grinder and he decided to let it go....my guess is that he had good reasons and legitimate concerns.

 

IF he truly wants to give back and stay involved (and make a little pizza $ along the way) he should take the test, get a whistle and start reffing.

[TDubya]

as referenced earlier that "powerhouses" look for experienced coaches ia not completely true because our school, a perennial power, has many just graduated assistants.. our coach loves our kids just graduated or not and if they have something to bring to the betterment of the team, they will get certified but thats all because our coach has so much pull in the school system. we've never had a problem w/ any of them helping out and many of them don't have "proper" accolades to be coaching but they are great help and greatly appreciated by everyone in our wrestling community

[ccbig]

That is why blanket policies don't work. Have the individual interview with school board and make an educated decision on an individual basis. Some kids are more mature than others and this ind and program should not suffer because of a policy.

JMHO

 

Well stated!

[awood2]

This is a very interesting situation, but one that is not unique. There are good arguments for both why the parents/coaches want to bring in the recent high school grad (can relate to the students, storied high school career gives him credibility with the kids, passion for the sport, etc.) and why the school chose not to allow it  (maturity level, liability, etc.).  Perhaps the best thing for this young man to do, if he does want to come back and coach, is to gain some experience with a local club team or feeder program...coaching young kids (esp. middle schoolers who suddenly woke up one morning and seem to know everything) can be painstaking and really try your patience...if he can prove that he's mature enough to handle those kids, and build himself a solid reputation, he will be giving the shool's AD exactly what he's looking for...proof that he's a good investment (low liability).  He may not get to jump in with both feet right now, but he will be able to build a solid foundation/platform for the future.  Just my two cents.

 

OMG, I found someone on the board that I AGREE with.  This is an example of the commonsense that isn't so common any more!

 

As for AWood1's rant, I agree... the kid should get a whistle and a striped shirt for a few years!

[Lock]

Some of you are not getting the point I was trying to make. You act like the school would have been doing him a huge favor by letting him help out. Trust me he's got plenty on his plate and just happen to have a break from college. He is the one who would of been doing our program a huge favor by giving back a little of his time and experience, he is not from our school so he doesn't have all these teen connections that some of you worry about. The way I see it this young man is way more mature than his age, heck he would have to be to accomplish what he has.  18 is old enough and mature enough to vote, go to war and fight for our freedoms, I'll even bet some of our war leaders are only 19 or 20. But its not old enough to give a helping hand in a wrestling room? There are coaches young and old who have messed up for various reasons. Address the problem then, if and when it does occur but don't stereotype our young as all being to immature.

[awood2]

Can't argue with that