manvswild1 Posted March 31, 2009 Share Posted March 31, 2009 Class wrestling in ohio Division 1 Lucky #13 - Wrestlers Win Unprecedented 13th Straight Title Congratulations to the St. Edward wrestlers and Coach Greg Urbas, who claimed a 13th straight state championship this weekend in Columbus. Nice the parity is just awsome at ohio's state level. Its been in progress for 30 years and we still have dominate teams. Gosh I am sure this is helping the little guys. Yeah probably if your little guys wrestle for St Edwards. division II St. Paris Graham Local sends 13 to individual state. 1. St. Paris Graham Local 282.0 2. Uhrichsville Claymont 81.0 I hope this is the kind of parity were looking to find in Indiana. What a travisty not to have this at our state level. division III troy had 9 wrestlers to state cuy had 8 wrestlers to state So division III is the only division any team has a shot at winning. Sort of like indiana. Matre dei would win the bottom every year and and we would have the same big tournment every year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KarlHungus Posted March 31, 2009 Share Posted March 31, 2009 Kind of like when Matre Dei won 9 straight in Indiana? The fact is there might or might not be dominant teams in either type of tournament. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Y2CJ41 Posted March 31, 2009 Share Posted March 31, 2009 As a matter of FACT, St. Eds lost twice this year in dual meets to Ohio DI teams. This year's DI race was up in the air, but Eds ended up having too many horses. Also, St. Eds and Graham are both national powerhouses, and I would expect them to win their own state tournament just like other national powerhouses. Lest you forget Mater Dei winning 9 in a row and 11 our of 13 state titles here in Indiana. Its amazing how great your memory is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
manvswild1 Posted March 31, 2009 Author Share Posted March 31, 2009 The fact is it doesn't fix the problem. It only enhances it on a different level. I could go state by state if you like and show how class wrestling hasn't fixed the problem FYI d III top 3 teams were 35 points higher then any other team. It is not going to fix the problem The problem is teams do not have the community to support wrestling fix the communites fix the problem. Your right Matre dei a small school won 9 in a row whats going to stop them in a weaker division? How does this fix the problem? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KarlHungus Posted March 31, 2009 Share Posted March 31, 2009 In the last 13 years: 1. Two divisions in Michigan have had 8 different champions 2. Two divisions have had 5 different champions You can cherry pick individual years but they really don't bolster your arguement. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1oldwrestler Posted March 31, 2009 Share Posted March 31, 2009 Manvswild - you've made your point. You're not for class wrestling. I think in the short amount of time (3 weeks?) you've made as many, if not more anti class posts than Y2 and Karl have made pro class posts since the inception of this website. Give it a rest! If your greatest concern in life is that IN is going to classes, get on a board, become a coach. Quit fighting the fight here. I know you think this website has been created to only push the class agenda but that's b.s. Nobody but you believes that. You're entertaining and so ridiculous sometimes that I wonder if you're not Y2 trying to stir up some interest in the off season for this website but my suggestion to you (if you really exist) is go someplace warm over spring break, have a drink or two and clam down. The moral underpinnings of society as we know it will not be shattered if IN goes to classes. Take a deep breath and exhale slowly......that's it! Now don't you feel better? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Y2CJ41 Posted March 31, 2009 Share Posted March 31, 2009 Look at any other sport in Indiana, you ALWAYS have dominant teams. Sheridan right now is pretty dominant in 1A football, so is Luers in 2A, etc. You see the same thing in all the sports at any level. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KarlHungus Posted March 31, 2009 Share Posted March 31, 2009 Your right Matre dei a small school won 9 in a row whats going to stop them in a weaker division? How does this fix the problem? The problem is obviously different for you and I. Triton may never win a state title with the likes of Mater Dei but they should at least have a chance at a sectional title when they would be competing against LaVille, Culver, Northfield, North Miami, etc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
manvswild1 Posted March 31, 2009 Author Share Posted March 31, 2009 Lets talk about indiana how do you see the system setting up. DI Matre Dei beats everyone by 20 + points 14 of 15 years D2 6 of the same 7 teams make it every year. Why is there no change? Its because these programs run things right. Its not because things are un equal there just better then you. Well what benifit do you have? your problem is teams do not have a chance to win in the classed system they still don't. Teams can win a sectional in the current system its happens every year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Y2CJ41 Posted March 31, 2009 Share Posted March 31, 2009 The fact is it doesn't fix the problem. It only enhances it on a different level. I could go state by state if you like and show how class wrestling hasn't fixed the problem FYI d III top 3 teams were 35 points higher then any other team. It is not going to fix the problem The problem is teams do not have the community to support wrestling fix the communites fix the problem. Your right Matre dei a small school won 9 in a row whats going to stop them in a weaker division? How does this fix the problem? The problem is small school wrestling is dying at the moment and class wrestling will help to rejuvenate wrestling at that level. Small school wrestling in Ohio is alive and thriving right now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
manvswild1 Posted March 31, 2009 Author Share Posted March 31, 2009 13 straight did not help the problem. These programs in no way are getting better because of class wrestling. If they are it took 30 some odd years to do it and its still broken. There is no parity in the sport in Ohio. If it has influenced DI like your going to try and claim whats wrong with Ohio's DII Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
md85 Posted March 31, 2009 Share Posted March 31, 2009 Look at any other sport in Indiana, you ALWAYS have dominant teams. Sheridan right now is pretty dominant in 1A football, so is Luers in 2A, etc. You see the same thing in all the sports at any level. Yes. But the point manvswild is trying to make is that class wrestling is not a panacea. There is NO PROOF from other states that it evens the playing field or makes things more competitive. If ,as Y2 stated, the state tournament has almost no bearing on college recruiting, then what is the point in switching to a different system that is un proven, and we won't be able to switch back from. If you want to get more teams to team state and more individuals to individual state, lobby the IHSAA to increase the numbers at these events. That is unless of course all you want is to get YOUR team there, and then class is the only way you have a chance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KarlHungus Posted March 31, 2009 Share Posted March 31, 2009 Lets talk about indiana how do you see the system setting up. DI Matre Dei beats everyone by 20 + points 14 of 15 years D2 6 of the same 7 teams make it every year. Why is there no change? Its because these programs run things right. Its not because things are un equal there just better then you. Well what benifit do you have? your problem is teams do not have a chance to win in the classed system they still don't. Teams can win a sectional in the current system its happens every year. Obviously teams that do things right are going to be the ones that have success. LaVille HS has hard working kids and coaches but have basically zero chance of having post season success because they are in the same sectional as Penn, Mishawaka, and SB Riley. Let them compete with teams of similar size and see how things shake out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
manvswild1 Posted March 31, 2009 Author Share Posted March 31, 2009 Well thats fine I don't want to hear teams in matre dei or yourktowns sectional complaining then. Come on the system is not perfect it never will be if it were mishawaka would be at state every year. or matre dei would have replaced delphi or roncalli. Your always going to have the same exac problems unless you fix the individual schools. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TripleB Posted March 31, 2009 Share Posted March 31, 2009 Mid-level teams that have been in a stagnant state will either die off, or remain in that stagnant state. Class Wrestling will do nothing to help those teams. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KarlHungus Posted March 31, 2009 Share Posted March 31, 2009 Look at any other sport in Indiana, you ALWAYS have dominant teams. Sheridan right now is pretty dominant in 1A football, so is Luers in 2A, etc. You see the same thing in all the sports at any level. Yes. But the point manvswild is trying to make is that class wrestling is not a panacea. There is NO PROOF from other states that it evens the playing field or makes things more competitive. If ,as Y2 stated, the state tournament has almost no bearing on college recruiting, then what is the point in switching to a different system that is un proven, and we won't be able to switch back from. If you want to get more teams to team state and more individuals to individual state, lobby the IHSAA to increase the numbers at these events. That is unless of course all you want is to get YOUR team there, and then class is the only way you have a chance. 1. No one has claimed it is a panacea. 2. My data from Michigan is more broad based and shows diversity 3. With regard to college recruiting, I think Y2 was talking about the D1 level specifically. Obviously the D2 and 3 colleges would benefit in being able to recruit more kids. 4. Continue to claim that this a personal crusade even though Div. 1 college coaches think their should be class for the good of the sport. It only makes you look more delusional. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TripleB Posted March 31, 2009 Share Posted March 31, 2009 Manvswild - you've made your point. You're not for class wrestling. I think in the short amount of time (3 weeks?) you've made as many, if not more anti class posts than Y2 and Karl have made pro class posts since the inception of this website. Give it a rest! If your greatest concern in life is that IN is going to classes, get on a board, become a coach. Quit fighting the fight here. I know you think this website has been created to only push the class agenda but that's b.s. Nobody but you believes that. You're entertaining and so ridiculous sometimes that I wonder if you're not Y2 trying to stir up some interest in the off season for this website but my suggestion to you (if you really exist) is go someplace warm over spring break, have a drink or two and clam down. The moral underpinnings of society as we know it will not be shattered if IN goes to classes. Take a deep breath and exhale slowly......that's it! Now don't you feel better? Really? You really feel like he's worse than Y2 and Karl'SG"Hungus? Why? Because he doesn't reply with "I'm greater than thou" one liners that Hungus makes or because he doesn't stuff manipulated stats, charts and graphs down our throats like Ross Perot Jr. does? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
md85 Posted March 31, 2009 Share Posted March 31, 2009 Lets talk about indiana how do you see the system setting up. DI Matre Dei beats everyone by 20 + points 14 of 15 years D2 6 of the same 7 teams make it every year. Why is there no change? Its because these programs run things right. Its not because things are un equal there just better then you. Well what benifit do you have? your problem is teams do not have a chance to win in the classed system they still don't. Teams can win a sectional in the current system its happens every year. Obviously teams that do things right are going to be the ones that have success. LaVille HS has hard working kids and coaches but have basically zero chance of having post season success because they are in the same sectional as Penn, Mishawaka, and SB Riley. Let them compete with teams of similar size and see how things shake out. Castle's coach has never complained about being in MD's regional. He just kept working until he beat them. Hmmmm? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
manvswild1 Posted March 31, 2009 Author Share Posted March 31, 2009 How is my opinion delusional. I would say if anything it has come accross more and more you are out for your own personal gains. Y2J- doesn't deem his team competitive against bigger schools and he claims it hurts progrmas yet he continues to schedule bigger teams to wrestle. Then he wants his team to only face small schools at the state tourney because he believes thats only fair to his team. You can't use both to benifit you and claim only one is good for you. Karl hungas doesn't believe it is a fair system because his team faces good schools in sectional. Yet if he doesn't seem to care that other teams have small school powerhouses in there sectionals. If it hurts him he cares if not its fine its part of the sport. I do not hear mishawaka complaining about there draw they lost fair and square. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
md85 Posted March 31, 2009 Share Posted March 31, 2009 Karl, the data from the whole country is more broad based than yours on Michigan. Half to 2/3 of the states with class wrestling are worse than Indiana. How is it delusional to believe with those numbers that MAYBE class wrestling doesn't help a state improve? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KarlHungus Posted March 31, 2009 Share Posted March 31, 2009 Karl, the data from the whole country is more broad based than yours on Michigan. Half to 2/3 of the states with class wrestling are worse than Indiana. How is it delusional to believe with those numbers that MAYBE class wrestling doesn't help a state improve? That wasn't the point I was debating earlier. Manvswild was saying that class would lead to dynasties. I was just pointing out in Michigan it has not happened. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
manvswild1 Posted March 31, 2009 Author Share Posted March 31, 2009 And I am pointing out in ohio it has and matre dei and yorktown have been competitive already whats o stop them from making it a two team field. No one in a smaller division would compete with them at all. Were more like ohio in that aspect then michagin. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
starsaw Posted March 31, 2009 Share Posted March 31, 2009 Well what benifit do you have? your problem is teams do not have a chance to win in the classed system they still don't. Teams can win a sectional in the current system its happens every year. I have never came out and said Yes to Class Wrestling, or No to Class Wrestling, there are many things I like about both ideas....I have a great problem with this statement, although We are very optimistic! and Have worked very hard to get where we are at, South Adams placed 2nd this year at our sectional, it's the first year ever we have placed 2nd....it was nice to place that high, but it sucked that this was the first year they didn't take the top two teams to team regional. Not that I don't like the current format for the team series....I think it worked out nicely in most of the state. But for the past 20 some years, (unsure about the exact numbers) Bellmont has won our Sectional, actually I think Bellmont has won our Sectional every year they have had Wrestling at Bellmont except for 2 or maybe 3 times!....We would like to think that someday, hopefully in the near future our 80+ dual meet wins in the past four years will get us a little more than a conference title....Bellmont is a 3A school......we are 1A, can we compete with Bellmont? I like to believe we can...And yes it would be a much greater feeling to win the sectional with Bellmont in attendance. There are many other Sectionals, that I know our team could win..... as a matter of fact our only 4 losses this year all came to Sectional Championship teams.... We all get it, you don't want Class Wrestling.....many don't...but what this website has done to better our sport is nothing but great. And as a believer in both ideas, I have never felt that Joe's sole purpose for this website was to push Class Wrestling in Indiana.......only to make Indiana Wrestling Better! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KarlHungus Posted March 31, 2009 Share Posted March 31, 2009 Karl hungas doesn't believe it is a fair system because his team faces good schools in sectional. Yet if he doesn't seem to care that other teams have small school powerhouses in there sectionals. If it hurts him he cares if not its fine its part of the sport. I do not hear mishawaka complaining about there draw they lost fair and square. Small schools would still have a greater chance to compete with "small school powerhouses" due to the number of kids. More schools given the chance to compete. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KarlHungus Posted March 31, 2009 Share Posted March 31, 2009 Were more like ohio in that aspect then michagin. How do you know? Delphi did not get the chance to compete with Yorktown or Mater Dei for small school state championship this year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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