starsaw Posted March 31, 2009 Share Posted March 31, 2009 Lets talk about indiana how do you see the system setting up. DI Matre Dei beats everyone by 20 + points 14 of 15 years D2 6 of the same 7 teams make it every year. Why is there no change? Its because these programs run things right. Its not because things are un equal there just better then you. Well what benifit do you have? your problem is teams do not have a chance to win in the classed system they still don't. Teams can win a sectional in the current system its happens every year. Obviously teams that do things right are going to be the ones that have success. LaVille HS has hard working kids and coaches but have basically zero chance of having post season success because they are in the same sectional as Penn, Mishawaka, and SB Riley. Let them compete with teams of similar size and see how things shake out. Castle's coach has never complained about being in MD's regional. He just kept working until he beat them. Hmmmm? I am not complaining either.....just for the record! About being in Bellmont's Sectional.....that is....We are just going to continue to work hard also! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
manvswild1 Posted March 31, 2009 Author Share Posted March 31, 2009 I would say to you that class doesn't matter as much as your program. I am stretching Y2's statements he has made in earlier post. I think every team with the right coaching and right off season can wn in our current system. I also believe that most teams to do not work hard enough. It sounds like your program is on the rise and if it continues on that path good things will happen and you will probably eventually beat belmont. It may take 5 or ten years but your in the right direction. Matre dei and the great teams have had there programs in place for thirty years and it shows. Every team already has the chance to compete. Matre Dei a small school has won 9 of 11 championships. They do it by working the youth and bringing up quality products year in and year out. No offense Karl but you have as much chance as beating matre dei at sectionals most years as you do beating crown point. Classing won't change that your work ethic will. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Y2CJ41 Posted March 31, 2009 Share Posted March 31, 2009 Karl, the data from the whole country is more broad based than yours on Michigan. Half to 2/3 of the states with class wrestling are worse than Indiana. How is it delusional to believe with those numbers that MAYBE class wrestling doesn't help a state improve? md85, I tend to believe you are of at least above average intelligence, but you do realize Indiana already is in the top 1/3 of the states, right? Indiana is usually between the top 10-15 area over a 5 year span. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
manvswild1 Posted March 31, 2009 Author Share Posted March 31, 2009 Why is that so bad? 10-15 is actually right where we should be if population is taken into account. I personally think the states wrestling is better then it ever has been and the state tournement has tested everyone in it. I would also say andrew howe, tshirts, escobedo and others benifited more then you may think from the indiana state non classed tournement. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Y2CJ41 Posted March 31, 2009 Share Posted March 31, 2009 Why is that so bad? 10-15 is actually right where we should be if population is taken into account. I personally think the states wrestling is better then it ever has been and the state tournement has tested everyone in it. I would also say andrew howe, tshirts, escobedo and others benifited more then you may think from the indiana state non classed tournement. You know I posed this question to Mr. Duane Goldman last night and he laughed when I asked if the state tournament benefited someone like Andrew Howe. I respect his opinion 100000000000X more than yours. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KarlHungus Posted March 31, 2009 Share Posted March 31, 2009 You know I posed this question to Mr. Duane Goldman last night and he laughed when I asked if the state tournament benefited someone like Andrew Howe. I respect his opinion 100000000000X more than yours. If you want to get technical, if the state tournament helped him .05%, it would still be more than you think. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
manvswild1 Posted March 31, 2009 Author Share Posted March 31, 2009 I would like to ask andrew howe the same question I would believe he would have a different opinion. If it is so bad for schools to wrestle bigger schools why do you hurt your team with your schedule? You can not have it both ways is it benificial or not to wrestle bigger schools? What about wrestlers like kurt kinser or reece humphreys I remember them having some quality matches? Is it better for wrestlers to wrestle weaker opponents? Thats my question. If it is then class the sport if not then work harder to compete. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hehateme1st Posted March 31, 2009 Share Posted March 31, 2009 How many differant Champions have we had.........and yes MD was ranked national when they won too along with Calumet this year correct? How many differant schools made it to team state in last10 years and list the amount of times please? your the numbers guy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
manvswild1 Posted March 31, 2009 Author Share Posted March 31, 2009 List it and you will see matre Dei 9 of ten. And champions 9 straight. Put them in the lower level and they win every year way to provide just as big a gap in wrestling. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Y2CJ41 Posted March 31, 2009 Share Posted March 31, 2009 I would like to ask andrew howe the same question I would believe he would have a different opinion. I would bet he was bored wrestling during the high school season because of a lack of competition. He had to set goals like getting so many back points and takedowns before pinning his opponents. I guarentee he liked going to Overtime just to practice more than wrestling in the Indiana state finals. If it is so bad for schools to wrestle bigger schools why do you hurt your team with your schedule? You can not have it both ways is it benificial or not to wrestle bigger schools? As I have stated probably 10 times already, the coaching staff wants to prepare the kids for the state tournament in the best possible way. Its the same thing my coach did at Findlay when we wrestled DI competition as an NAIA/DII school. What about wrestlers like kurt kinser or reece humphreys I remember them having some quality matches? Is it better for wrestlers to wrestle weaker opponents? Thats my question. If it is then class the sport if not then work harder to compete. Kinser and Humphrey(no S) both were only challenged by big school counterparts, so their state tournament runs would have been very similar to what they already were. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Galagore Posted March 31, 2009 Share Posted March 31, 2009 Why is that so bad? 10-15 is actually right where we should be if population is taken into account. I personally think the states wrestling is better then it ever has been and the state tournement has tested everyone in it. I would also say andrew howe, tshirts, escobedo and others benifited more then you may think from the indiana state non classed tournement. Taking population into account? I thought population didn't matter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scardy94 Posted March 31, 2009 Share Posted March 31, 2009 ;D Just wanted to get a post in since this is about the 20th class wrestling post in the last 2 weeks. I haven't talked on one of them. So, how about that Indiana weather? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
manvswild1 Posted March 31, 2009 Author Share Posted March 31, 2009 Population is millions enrolment is hundreds. There are also more teams in higher populated states and so on and so forth. The only stable thing is 14 wrestlers per team in 14 wieght classes. State size should give us an indicator. Iowa a way less populated state has way more college wrestlers per capita. This is because there communities love wrestling more then basketball and there college programs show it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KarlHungus Posted March 31, 2009 Share Posted March 31, 2009 I would like to ask andrew howe the same question I would believe he would have a different opinion. Be my guest. If it is so bad for schools to wrestle bigger schools why do you hurt your team with your schedule? You can not have it both ways is it benificial or not to wrestle bigger schools? Are you serious? Hasn't this been answered numerous times? What about wrestlers like kurt kinser or reece humphreys I remember them having some quality matches? Only one wrestler was within 4 points of Reece in his three state title years and that was in the championship match his sophomore year. Kinser, although a fine wrestler, is not on the level of Esco, Tsirtsis, Howe, Humphrey or Coughlin in high school. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
manvswild1 Posted March 31, 2009 Author Share Posted March 31, 2009 coughlin had several tough matches at the state level. Especially early in his career. Why can't you just admit a simple fact compitition is helpful to wrestlers and in a classed system there would be less compitition? Is that true? I just want a one word answer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Y2CJ41 Posted March 31, 2009 Share Posted March 31, 2009 How many differant Champions have we had.........and yes MD was ranked national when they won too along with Calumet this year correct? How many differant schools made it to team state in last10 years and list the amount of times please? your the numbers guy 10 Bellmont 10 Mishawaka 9 Evansville Mater Dei 8 Perry Meridian 7 Franklin 6 Lawrence North 5 Portage 3 Bloomington South 3 Columbia City 3 Indianapolis Cathedral 3 Merrillville 2 Avon 2 Elkhart Memorial 2 Yorktown 1 New Castle 1 Columbus North 1 Fort Wayne Snider 1 Frankfort 1 Griffith 1 Harrison (West Lafayette) 1 Southmont 1 Warren Central 1 Crown Point 1 Delphi 1 Castle 1 Roncalli 24 teams, in the past 10 years There were four new teams this year at the state finals and I would attribute at least two of them to the new realignment of the semi-states. Both Delphi and Roncalli went through different regionals than in the past. Delphi had previously gone through Mishawaka and Roncalli had to go through Perry Meridian. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
manvswild1 Posted March 31, 2009 Author Share Posted March 31, 2009 I will take 9 timer matre dei by 20 every year in the small division. Followed by yorktown. The other squads not even on there level. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KarlHungus Posted March 31, 2009 Share Posted March 31, 2009 coughlin had several tough matches at the state level. Especially early in his career. Why can't you just admit a simple fact compitition is helpful to wrestlers and in a classed system there would be less compitition? Is that true? I just want a one word answer. There would be plenty of competition at all levels. Triton is not any worse of a basketball team because they didn't get to play Ft. Wayne Snider. Heck, maybe having reasonable and obtainable goals actually motivated them to work harder then they would have. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
manvswild1 Posted March 31, 2009 Author Share Posted March 31, 2009 So you say a state title by an individual is unobtainable from a small school wrestler? On the team side what goal are you going to have the best team in the state year in and year out is in your division. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Y2CJ41 Posted March 31, 2009 Share Posted March 31, 2009 I will take 9 timer matre dei by 20 every year in the small division. Followed by yorktown. The other squads not even on there level. I would say Delphi and Yorktown amongst other small schools would compete very well with MD. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
manvswild1 Posted March 31, 2009 Author Share Posted March 31, 2009 This year it may have been close but of the past 13 they would have had one shot only. Also yorktown was like 3 points from going to state there there. I already stated it will be a two team race. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KarlHungus Posted March 31, 2009 Share Posted March 31, 2009 Whats wrong with Delphi? Why are you hating on Delphi? They would compete with either team in your "2 team race" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
manvswild1 Posted March 31, 2009 Author Share Posted March 31, 2009 This year maybe but year in and year out matre dei wins by twenty points on both the teams. Matre dei beats all schools by that much half the time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KarlHungus Posted March 31, 2009 Share Posted March 31, 2009 You just don't like Delphi and the other schools that are working hard Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
manvswild1 Posted March 31, 2009 Author Share Posted March 31, 2009 Delphi made it to state if they work hard they proved they can be successful with the current system. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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