decbell1 Posted February 1, 2010 Share Posted February 1, 2010 Whatever, I don't understand why we can't have a decent conversation about this instead of just beating down other people's opinions. I simply made the comment about enrollment because the argument loses its weight if one family moves out of town and next years freshmen class is 10 kids smaller. That was all I was saying. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Y2CJ41 Posted February 1, 2010 Share Posted February 1, 2010 You can't argue with success. Indiana has great turnout and participation, the we need to change for the sake of change reminds me of the guy you all voted for president this time around. Ohh yes, all the people states that have class wrestling are Democrats, I forgot about that one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Y2CJ41 Posted February 1, 2010 Share Posted February 1, 2010 You can't argue with success. Indiana has great turnout and participation, the we need to change for the sake of change reminds me of the guy you all voted for president this time around. We are averaging over 2 forfeits per team, that is not very good. I would hope we could get that number down to 1 to 1.5 per team. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tspray1 Posted February 1, 2010 Share Posted February 1, 2010 Decbell I wasn't trying to be mean. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
allchamp7 Posted February 1, 2010 Share Posted February 1, 2010 y2, i have no idea if this is why or not or even has anything to do w/ why mishawaka, perry and whoever are better but i would like to see year in and year out how many of those "better" schools varsity wrestlers participate in other sports all year and how many strictly train for wrestling all year. Those programs probably have alot more kids who are only wrestlers than a smaller school like garrett who needs their kids in football, baseball or whatever. being a graduate of a small school i wish we could have had success like those schools and could figure out how to get to their level. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
decbell1 Posted February 1, 2010 Share Posted February 1, 2010 Decbell I wasn't trying to be mean. I didn't think you were, don't worry about it. Truth is, if you take out EMD as a private school, Yorktown is definitely the only team going to team state. The numbers obviously compliment your argument. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Disco Posted February 1, 2010 Share Posted February 1, 2010 Exactly, its amazing how Ohio is better because they have a greater population, but Mishawaka isn't better than Garrett because of school population. And the converse can also be true, Indiana will be better than Ohio because they go to Class? What? and the Railroaders will out shine Mish? because? See the ridiculous rhetoric. The best high school wrestling state in the US ! Indiana , bar none. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Y2CJ41 Posted February 1, 2010 Share Posted February 1, 2010 y2, i have no idea if this is why or not or even has anything to do w/ why mishawaka, perry and whoever are better but i would like to see year in and year out how many of those "better" schools varsity wrestlers participate in other sports all year and how many strictly train for wrestling all year. Those programs probably have alot more kids who are only wrestlers than a smaller school like garrett who needs their kids in football, baseball or whatever. being a graduate of a small school i wish we could have had success like those schools and could figure out how to get to their level. Isn't everyone equal, big and small schools are all equal aren't they? It shouldn't matter if my wrestlers are one, two or three sport athletes then. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Disco Posted February 1, 2010 Share Posted February 1, 2010 Ohh yes, all the people states that have class wrestling are Democrats, I forgot about that one. Change for change sake , if the shoe fits? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Y2CJ41 Posted February 1, 2010 Share Posted February 1, 2010 And the converse can also be true, Indiana will be better than Ohio because they go to Class? What? and the Railroaders will out shine Mish? because? See the ridiculous rhetoric. The best high school wrestling state in the US ! Indiana , bar none. Ummm, no Indiana is not the best wrestling state in the US, not even close. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Y2CJ41 Posted February 1, 2010 Share Posted February 1, 2010 Change for change sake , if the shoe fits? No change for the good of the sport and let it thrive at the small school level like in basketball, football, baseball, and all the other classed sports. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
decbell1 Posted February 1, 2010 Share Posted February 1, 2010 No change for the good of the sport and let it thrive at the small school level like in basketball, football, baseball, and all the other classed sports. By far the best argument I think for class. 2A football still has some great teams, great rivalries, and a highly competitive state tournament for example. If they were losing at sectional to 5A Homestead, you probably don't get the participation level that they currently enjoy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
allchamp7 Posted February 1, 2010 Share Posted February 1, 2010 idk how they can be equal if one school has 30 plus kids out every year compared to 20 or less, practices would be better w/ more wrestlers and it does matter if a kid is training all year compared to one who trains for two-three different sports, more time equals more benefit aka wouldnt that be working harder therefore being better. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
decbell1 Posted February 1, 2010 Share Posted February 1, 2010 I think the biggest hurdle to convincing people (like me in some cases) is that their point of view is as a fan. If you take a look at what has happened to fan bases and attendance in basketball, some would argue that class basketball failed. But if you talk to players, coaches, and principals, class basketball has been a huge success. I have a hard time getting behind something that would eliminate my favorite day of the year, Team State and taking Bellmont's chance to knock off our big rivals on a big stage. If your looking at only what's best for the wrestlers (which we probably should all do, even if we do really enjoy our saturdays as fans now), then I think the argument for class definitely needs to be made. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Y2CJ41 Posted February 1, 2010 Share Posted February 1, 2010 idk how they can be equal if one school has 30 plus kids out every year compared to 20 or less, practices would be better w/ more wrestlers and it does matter if a kid is training all year compared to one who trains for two-three different sports, more time equals more benefit aka wouldnt that be working harder therefore being better. I would just say the kid that works harder should be better right? No matter if he plays football or not, if he works harder he will be the better wrestler. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Y2CJ41 Posted February 1, 2010 Share Posted February 1, 2010 I think the biggest hurdle to convincing people (like me in some cases) is that their point of view is as a fan. If you take a look at what has happened to fan bases and attendance in basketball, some would argue that class basketball failed. But if you talk to players, coaches, and principals, class basketball has been a huge success. I have a hard time getting behind something that would eliminate my favorite day of the year, Team State and taking Bellmont's chance to knock off our big rivals on a big stage. If your looking at only what's best for the wrestlers (which we probably should all do, even if we do really enjoy our saturdays as fans now), then I think the argument for class definitely needs to be made. Conseco sells out every year for the basketball state finals. Also, attendance was declining after the "Damon Bailey" years. However, it NEVER sells out for wrestling. There are numerous ways to make it work where there would be all the class state championships at one location. How cool would it be to have two or three teams going for state titles at Center Grove at the same time? The roof would be blown off the school as loud as it would be. Tell me you wouldn't get into that as a fan? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Disco Posted February 1, 2010 Share Posted February 1, 2010 Ummm, no Indiana is not the best wrestling state in the US, not even close. Ummm.. yes it is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
decbell1 Posted February 1, 2010 Share Posted February 1, 2010 Conseco sells out every year for the basketball state finals. Also, attendance was declining after the "Damon Bailey" years. However, it NEVER sells out for wrestling. There are numerous ways to make it work where there would be all the class state championships at one location. How cool would it be to have two or three teams going for state titles at Center Grove at the same time? The roof would be blown off the school as loud as it would be. Tell me you wouldn't get into that as a fan? O ya, I think if they could bring it all together, and maybe just take Top 4 to the state finals, and then get 3 mats it would be pretty cool. As much as I like Center Grove, I think a venue that is just a bit larger could be better if you were going to go that route. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
allchamp7 Posted February 1, 2010 Share Posted February 1, 2010 i think that a kid who works hard all year on one sport will usually be better than the kid that works hard for only the wrestling season and maybe summer too if not playing baseball...also its not always the one who works hard, doesnt take into account natural ability. some kids are simply blessed and dont work hard and are superb athletes. Doesnt seem fair to me but thats life. but your right that if you work hard theyll be better at no matter what it is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grenadier2012 Posted February 1, 2010 Share Posted February 1, 2010 Indiana is a statistical anamole. We cannot compare ourselves to other states, with the exception being California. Therefore there is no way to tell if school size realistically correlates to success in a non-class system. The only way to find out would be to class Indiana; Sorry class proponents, you'll live to play another day. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Y2CJ41 Posted February 1, 2010 Share Posted February 1, 2010 Kentucky has single class wrestling, why don't we compare ourselves to them? What about Hawaii, Delaware, and Vermont too. They all have single class wrestling and are top notch wrestling states. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
allchamp7 Posted February 1, 2010 Share Posted February 1, 2010 im guessing everyone of those states have class wrestling because they dont have the number of wrestlers or schools with wrestling that most states do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chambers Posted February 1, 2010 Share Posted February 1, 2010 Kentucky has single class wrestling, why don't we compare ourselves to them? What about Hawaii, Delaware, and Vermont too. They all have single class wrestling and are top notch wrestling states. Kentucky only has 84 schools that have wrestling. Several of those schools just started their teams in the last 5 years. They also take 32 wrestlers to state in each weight. 38% of the Kentucky wrestlers make the state tournament. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Y2CJ41 Posted February 1, 2010 Share Posted February 1, 2010 im guessing everyone of those states have class wrestling because they dont have the number of wrestlers or schools with wrestling that most states do. From the research I have done all of those states have single class wrestling. Kentucky only has 84 schools that have wrestling. Several of those schools just started their teams in the last 5 years. They also take 32 wrestlers to state in each weight. 38% of the Kentucky wrestlers make the state tournament. So lets compare ourselves to California with over 700 schools and they qualify 40 for state? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grenadier2012 Posted February 1, 2010 Share Posted February 1, 2010 Y2 you went a little repetitive on the sarcasm; I'm actually intelligent enough to pick up on it when it's thrown at me. That statement was also pretty dull, I thought you would have something better than that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts