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Everything posted by runner-up

  1. Love that IHSWCA has worked get a classed team dual situation going during the season with the absence of team state duals. I've heard the arguments for a classed individual tournament and I'm not going to deny that they have some merit for growing the sport, but there is just something special about having one state champion. As a fan, I hope they don't change that. I am for possible tweeting the wrestle back situations at semi-state and state, but other than that I'd say leave the state finals as is. I am down for classed duals any day though--with the option of letting powerhouses (like MD) move up if they choose.
  2. Tyrone is a smart dude. I worked with him after my first full year of officiating and he helped me with my mechanics and help me mentally slow down matches. He could have let me know about his trick for getting recognized. I like the idea of only voting based off the previous 3 years. IHSAA should be able to keep that data in myihsaa and blackout schools you haven't seen based off of your reported schedule. Not sure how much work it would be to set that up, but it is something I'd think their systems people could work out. It would also reward the officials who are more active as they would be able to get more votes from seeing more schools over that 3 year period and wouldn't have a dramatic impact if the took a lighter schedule during one of those three years (like only being able to vote for who you saw during that year). Advancing the best refs from the sectionals is an interesting take as well. I'm not sure exactly how that would play out, but it seems like a system that could be worked out potentially so long as you evenly distribute your officiating talent throughout sectionals (which I know they try to do now, but it would be higher stakes if you had 3 or 4 pretty good officials in one sectional).
  3. The coach voting is an interesting system in practice. In theory it is smart. Coaches feedback is important and should be taken into consideration. But I have also noticed that I get votes from schools I didn’t even know existed. Any ranking (1-5) from a school/coach that hasn’t seen you officiate is a bad vote for a true assessment. I’ve also heard about refs getting repeated bad scores from the same coach for years that is holding a grudge. Just like wrestlers, officials get better with mat time and experience. If you are a coach still giving a good ref a 1 or a 2 because of a questionable call a decade ago, you are part of the problem. Same goes for if you are giving your buddy a 5 because he has been a great official in the past but maybe his officiating career is on the decline. Base rating off of how they officiate in the present, not the past, and don’t vote for someone you haven’t seen. I think I heard the NCAA had official evaluators, where some of the top older officials rank and assign the younger ones for major tournaments. I wonder if the IHSAA could get feedback from some of the heads of the associations or some of the more seasoned state level officials. Maybe they could also rank the eligible officials and that could be added to the score for evaluation. At the end of the day, the IHSAA’s goal is to crown a state champion—the best wrestler in the state. Shouldn’t we also be working to get the best crew of refs to help in that process? I don’t say this implying the guys there this weekend weren’t the best officials for the job. I know a handful of them and I’d agree they are some of the top officials, much better than myself currently--they are the ones I’ll go to to help get better. But this thread has brought up flaws with the process so I figured I’d offer my take on it and how to maybe improve it.
  4. My understanding is that the NFHS, the authority for high school rules, doesn’t permit video review for any sports. I doubt any sort of review for the state finals would happen until video review was implemented throughout the regular season.
  5. Not sure about the out of bounds, but a crotch lift doesn’t necessarily prevent your opponent from scoring a take down.
  6. I didn’t see the match, so I can’t comment on the specifics of the situation, but I can point you to the rule book to clarify your confusion about how the referee and assistant referee can impact a changed call. Rule 3-2 explains the role of the assistant in helping to “minimize human error in matters of rule application and judgment.” 3-2-2: The assistant referee will be granted the same mobility as the referee and will complement and assist the referee in making calls. The referee will be in complete control of the match. 3-2-2 f and e f. When necessary, the referee and assistant shall meet briefly on the edge of the mat away from the wrestlers and coaches, away from the wrestlers and coaches, away from the scorer’s table to discuss the point of disagreement; e. The assistant may support, disagree or have no opinion relative to a decision. The referee shall prevail in the event of disagreement; So, based on the rules, it’s always the referee’s call on whether or not to make a change. The assistant doesn’t have the ability to change a call. Their opinion may influence the referee to change the call, but that falls on the referee. Normally you see a change if the referee knows they may have been out of position, or in a situation like what you described, may not have had a clear idea when in the process of the move time expired. If it was a bang-bang call, the ref may have been iffy on the timing (maybe not 100% confident in his own call to begin with) and his assistant might have had a better view of the clock. Obviously just speculating as to why the change was determined.
  7. I am a 4th year official looking to fill my schedule for this upcoming season. I can be available for weeknight matches in Indianapolis and the surrounding area and willing to travel a bit on weekends. I am available to officiate at all levels, though I am looking to do more varsity meets this season. Wrestling Credentials 4 Year Varsity Wrestler at Lawrence Central High School 2005-2009 4 Year Wrestler at Wabash College 2010-2013 3 year Assistant Coach at Lawrence North High School 2014-2016 2 full years of schedule of Freshman/JV/Middle School Matches; officiated multiple Elementary tournaments; officiated Middle School State, Indy Nationals, and ISWA State in the offseason You can reach out to me via email: drsandberg@gmail.com Official Number # 3794344 Member of the Indiana Officials Association
  8. Merriville has the best highschool room I’ve ever been in. I got winded doing laps. Brownsburg’s looks awesome.
  9. If seeds stay as originally seeded, I'd imagine the argument would be using the seeding criteria that issued by IHSAA: "For seeding purposes, forfeits should not be included in a wrestler’s record." I think you can broadly interpret that and use the true outcomes of the individual's matches for head-to-head and record vs common opponents. I see it in a similar light of a flagrant misconduct penalty AFTER a match has been completed. The offending wrestler still gets credit for a head to head win against his opponent, but team points are deducted--effectively making it a loss for the team. As mentioned previously in the thread, unseeding a talented Carmel wrestler could, in fact, put other wrestlers as a disadvantage for advancement. If you let them wrestle (which I think is permissible), I think it would be best you leave them where they are seeding-wise. It isn't ideal, but it is probably the most fair way in determining that the "best" wrestlers advance. I'm not sure about the specifics of the incident(s), but I do know these kids wouldn't be the first and certainly wouldn't be the last to use sauna suits or a sauna/heat box to help make weight using dehydration techniques. That doesn't make it right, but I'm not ready to throw these kids to the wolves for things that have long been associated with the sport--especially if there was pressure from adults (not saying this is 100% the case, but it seems to be the rumor spreading). This is a big story. Hopefully other coaches and wrestlers will see this and it will discourage this behavior going forward. In my experience, the coaching staff and administration at Carmel has always treated me with respect. I will reserve my judgement until more is known about what happened.
  10. It is a 2 pound "growth allowance" intended to accommodate the natural growth of adolescents. The idea is to make sure kids going through puberty aren't killing themselves to say at the same weight all year as their body changes. How often does a situation like a guy dropping 2 weight classes, having no common opponents and also have a great record at the higher weight classes, cause issues at a seeding meeting? Probably not that often. Lets not rewrite the rules for outlier cases. The idea is to get the best kids away from each other earlier and let the kids determine who moves on. Coaches should understand this and try to help this happen for the best interest of all participants.
  11. Glad I took a second of my day to read this. Thanks for sharing. Best of luck to Mr. Latham in the state tournament series and beyond.
  12. Per the rules "the main objective of seeding is to have outstanding wrestlers separated in the brackets so that they will not meet each other until the finals." I think that the rule writers assume that a wrestler who was on the cusp of making it to the state meet the previous year defines you as an outstanding wrestler. 10 matches qualifies you to be seeded, thus that is the 1st question. Next is head to head competition followed by common opponents. So if a returning semi-state quarterfinalist has lost to someone else in the sectional or has a worse record vs common opponents, he/she would NOT be seeded over his opponent he lost to or has had more common opponent success than--provided said wrestler meets the seeding criteria.
  13. Pairings and Seeding Procedures for those interested: A. Sectional pairings and seeding will be made at 7:00 p.m. on the Monday preceding the sectional tournament at the center school. 1. Each participating school in that sectional may have only 1 representative voting. Positions of contestants from schools not represented will be drawn by lot. 2. Six contestants shall be seeded in each weight class. Coaches are required to bring their official team scorebook and all of their Alpha Master Reports for each season contest date. A coaches’ failure to have his official team scorebook and his Alpha Master Reports shall result in his school’s entries being unseeded unless a majority of the other coaches present wish to seed the offending school’s wrestlers. 3. If a school does not have an entry in a weight class, then a forfeit shall be entered for that school in that weight class. EXCEPTION – When a school enters two (2) or less wrestlers in the IHSAA tournament series, the vacant weight classes created by this school’s entry into the tournament shall NOT cause a forfeit in the vacant weight classes. 4. A copy of the Official Entry List from each school shall be in the hands of the tourney director at the time of the seeding meeting. 5. Each coach shall specify to the Tourney Director his entrants for each weight class prior to the seeding meeting. If no representative is present at the seeding meeting, the first contestant listed on the official entry list who is eligible in a particular weight class will be entered in that weight class. 6. Pairings at this meeting shall be by lot after the seeding assignments are made. These pairings shall be final and will not be redrawn. 7. Only qualified alternate/s may be substituted after the seeding meeting. A qualified alternate is defined as any wrestler who meets the following criteria: a. possesses six (6) qualified weigh‐ins throughout the regular season, b. has not been seeded nor placed by draw at the IHSAA sectional seeding meeting, c. is legally entered in his weight class or the weight class immediately above his weight class and is then eligible in either weight class. 8. If it becomes necessary to replace a seeded wrestler after the conclusion of the seeding meeting, the following procedures shall be implemented: a. all seeded wrestlers below the vacated spot shall move up one seeded position. The alternate shall be placed at the #6 seeded position. b. if an alternate is not available to be placed at the 6th seeded position, the last unseeded wrestler drawn shall be placed in the 6th seeded position. B. Mandatory Procedures to Follow at the Sectional Seeding Meeting 1. Equipment and Supplies: TrackWrestling software, Chalkboard/White Board, numbers and shaker bottle; sufficient chairs and tables; sufficient blank bracket sheets for each weight class and coach. Brackets will also be needed for classes in which all schools do not enter. 2. Have the head coach stand, introduce himself and his assistant and tell what school they represent. 3. Follow the conduct of tournament recommendations in the Official Wrestling Rules–Rule 10. 4. Each coach is to possess a complete individual record of his wrestlers to be seeded including opponents’ names, schools and match scores. 5. Coaches should strive to keep open minds when seeding assignments are being decided. The main objective of seeding is to have outstanding wrestlers separated in the brackets so that they will not meet each other until the finals. Seeding shall be based upon the wrestler's proven ability and not upon the desire for unwarranted advantage. 6. Determination of seeded wrestlers is given in order of importance: Varsity contests are the only record submitted for seeding consideration. a. Head to head competition current year; (The wrestler with the most head to head wins gets the seed. If they have beaten each other an equal number of times, then the winner of the last match gets the seed. Head to head is counted at any level of interscholastic competition. Matches against teammates are not counted for seeding purposes.); b. Record against common opponents; c. Semi‐State quarterfinalist, or higher in previous year IHSAA Tournament Series; d. Win percentage. A contestant with the best overall record (winning percentage) who has wrestled at least 10 matches; For seeding purposes, forfeits should not be included in a wrestler’s record. e. Farthest advancement in previous year IHSAA State Tournament Series; f. Draw by lot. Criteria is reset after determining each seed. Criteria is reset after determining each seed NOTE: A wrestler with less than ten matches may not be seeded ahead of a wrestler with at least ten matches and a winning record unless he/she meets criteria in a, b or c. A wrestler with a losing record may not be seeded unless he/she meets criteria a, b or c unless there are less than six (6) wrestlers in the bracket. 7. A seeded contestant shall have the same opportunity to draw for a bye as other contestants in his bracket.
  14. D1 College wrestling is tough. Big 10 wrestling is a grind. CJ has had some good matches where things went his way and some matches where they didn't. He isn't as dominate as we saw him here in Indiana, but the competition is tougher so that is understandable. As mentioned before, the danger rule might have caused him to have to switch up his style a bit which might explain the takedown defense. This year hasn't been quite as good as last year up to this point, but I am not throwing in the towel to say he is done yet. I think we have yet to CJ hit his ceiling. He has always been a gamer and I am looking forward to watching him compete at Big 10s and the NCAA Championships in the next few months.
  15. It is easy to blame officials for not checking at weigh ins. I get that they are the ruling authority figure at the tournament so they do deserve some blame--it is, of course, part of their duties. But I am shocked how quickly we are to point the finger at the official. What about the wrestler's responsibility to properly groom him/herself? It also is a responsibility of the coach to verify that their wrestlers are groomed, properly equipped and ready to wrestle. That is part of my issue with this NJ incident. Where is the personal responsibility of the wrestler? Why has his coach not worked with him to obtain legal hair covering? This wasn't a rule change this year. The rule that hair covering must attach to the headgear it at least 2-3 years old. Why has he been allowed to slide this long? Other officials should have enforced the rule. Then you wouldn't have the "well they him wrestle last week" excuse I am seeing many use and maybe he'd have the proper equipment. It is a point of emphasis this year that officials are not to allow illegal equipment (like hair covering that doesn't attach), so the ref wasn't in the wrong in the ruling on the mat. It just should have been addressed earlier. According to the NYT coverage an official who graduated from Johnson's school had warned them that the hair cover wasn't legal the week prior. I get that the ref has had the past experience/suspension with using the racial slur. That isn't ok. There isn't room for hatred and racism in the ranks of officials in the sport. If they deem he should lose his license because of that, I can understand and support that ruling. But I doubt that most of the outrage wouldn't be the same or similar had he not had that happen. People on social media were quick to respond prior to that fact coming to light. I don't want any wrestler to feel as if this sport isn't for them or that the rules don't allow them to express themselves (including having whatever hairstyle they want). Our sport is one of the most inclusive sports when it comes to accommodations for contestants. How many sports allow a 5' 100 lb participant to be able to contribute as much as a 6'6" 250 lb participant? How many other sports allow for female and male athletes to compete against each other? We allow all participants to wrestle with accommodation if need be. I can't think of another sport that alters rules so that visually impaired contestants can compete with those who aren't and that allows contestants without limbs to compete freely. I know there are religions that don't permit shaving or cutting of the hair, wrestling allows those individuals to compete using legal coverings or facemasks. If wearing your hair in dreadlocks or a Mississippi Mudflap (mullet for those who aren't familiar) help you express yourself, wear your hair like that to your heart's content. Just please use the proper hair covering.
  16. From a ref’s perspective, it seems as though the letter of the rule was enforced correctly—a local ref says he had seen the wrestler using an illegal hair cover a week prior and told both wrestler and coach it needed to be addressed. It sounds like they didn’t address it. The penalty point and starting the injury clock to give the wrestler time to address the issue is the right call per the rule 8-1-1 that is referenced above. I don’t think the intent of the rule is so that kids will cut their hair matside to make it legal. I think it is more so removing a brace that might not be legal or taping laces. I imagine we will see a ruling forbidding the cutting of hair matside. You either use proper legal covering or you don’t wrestle. I wanted to start this topic because I’ve seen my fair share of illegal hair coverings over the past years. I’ve always addressed it with the wrestler and coach, but I’ve permitted it if I didn’t think it would have the potential to cause harm (example: skull caps that don’t attach to the headgear). There is a rule emphasis that we are to not permit it. Hair coverings must be affixed to the headgear. If you are a parent or coach of a wrestler whose hair doesn’t meet the standards, please be sure your wrestler has a legal hair covering. I am getting frustrated reading all about this and getting texts from my nonwrestling friends asking about this. It is bad optics for our sport.
  17. Today footage of a varsity wrestler in NJ went viral. The video is of the wrestler having his hair cut matside in what I imagine allowed it to meet the the requirements for wrestlers’ appearance and health in accordance to NFHS rule 4-2-1. The wrestler appears to be African-American and his hair was in medium length dreadlocks. From what I gather, his hair cover wasn’t legal because it couldn’t be attached to his headgear. It is unclear to me if the hair cover he was trying to use was the same he had worn all year, or if it was different. I read that he had misplaced his normal headgear and was using something else. I also read that it was the same head cover and no other official made a big deal about it. You can’t always believe what you read on the internet, so I guess pick whichever version you like. Either way, something was apparently wrong. The main reason this seems to have gotten attention is the shock and awe factor of them hastily cutting the young man’s hair in the middle of the gym while he is clearly frustrated and emotional about the whole thing. Now asking a wrestler to cut their hair because their hair didn’t meet the standard/rule and they didn’t have the proper equipment has happened before, but it normally takes place in a lockerroom or wrestling room prior to the meet (as it should be addressed at the time of weigh ins). Having it happen in the middle of the gym in front of all to see is a much different thing and I can see how this video might catch the eyes of people unfamiliar with our sport. Many are sharing and commenting on the video and many people are viewing it through a racial lense—a white ref making the ruling while a white trainer/manager cuts a black adolescents hair while his white coach stands by allowing all this to happen. I get the optics. It isn’t good. Making matters worse, the ref who made the call allegedly had been disciplined a few years ago for using a racial slur to discribe another official. Really not good optics. All of this could and should have went differently. The ref should have addressed the hair at the weigh in. The wrestler could have had the proper legal haircovering (assuming he didn’t). The coach, ref, or AD could have decided that cutting the hair matside was wrong. All these things could have happened differently. Hopefully this viral video prevents this from happening again. I hope to never see this happen in Indiana. But it very well could. I could almost have seen it happen on my mat. As a ref, I have had to enforce this rule matside—just last weekend, even, at a multi-team individual tournament. Another ref forgot to check for hair coverings (probably assuming wrestlers had them but didn’t bring them to be approved as special equipment) during skin check and the the offending wrestler came onto the mat with hair similar to the boy in the viral video. Luckily the wrestler’s teammates had a spare legal covering and they were able to correct it (in my experience, this has always been the case). The offending wrestler pinned his opponent in the first period so the penalty didn’t play a factor. After the match he and his coach said they didn’t realize he needed the hair cover and said he had been wrestling like this all year. This is a problem. I’ve had wrestlers try to use pantyhose, skull caps that don’t meet NHFS regulations, swim caps, and even had a wrestler try to use a textbook cover as hair covers. Luckily they were all shut down during weigh-in/skin checks. If, in the heat of the moment, a wrestler didn’t have the proper equipment available like in the situation I mentioned above, I can imaging seeing a coach quickly doing something like this and me—with everything that refs have on their mind at a tournament—not thinking about how it might look or if it is appropriate letting it happen. We can do better to prevent these situations. I don’t know if the official was making the kid cut his hair because of racial bias. Maybe he was, maybe he wasn’t. I try not to figure out intent—that isn’t my job. As a ref, I only see two colors: red and green. But I totally can see how this has become story. In the age of social media, stuff like this spreads fast and many people don’t care to look at all the facts. If this happened in the heat of the moment at a meet that I was working, I surely wouldn’t want people assocating my name with racism and hatred. So...let’s make sure this doesn’t happen in the Hoosier state. Below are some rules for this year’s verson of the rule book that partain to this issue. Rule 4-2-1 During competition all wrestlers shall be clean shaven, with sideburns trimmed no lower than earlobe level and hair trimmed and well groomed. The hair, in its natural state, shall not extend below the top of an ordinary shirt collar in the back; and on the sides, the hair shall not extend below the earlobe level; in the back; and on the sides, the hair shall not extend below earlobe level; in the front, the hair shall not extend below the eyebrows. A neatly trimmed mustache that does not extend below the line of the lower lip shall be permissible. If an individual has hair longer than allowed by rule, it may be braided or rolled if it is contained in a cover so that the hair rule is satisfied. The legal hair cover shall be attached to the ear guards. A bandanna is not considered a legal hair cover. The legal hair cover must be of solid material and be nonabrasive. The wrestler opting to wear a legal hair cover must wear it to the weigh-in procedure and be checked for grooming with it on. The legal hair cover must be removed prior to the wrestler stepping on the scale to be weighed. If a referee is not present at the weigh-ins, the hair cover must be checked by the meet referee upon arrival at the site. If an individual has facial hair it must be covered with a face mask. All legal hair covers and face masks will be considered special equipment. If an individual’s hair is as abrasive as an unshaved face, the individual shall be required to shave the head as smooth as a face is required or wear legal hair cover. 7-3-5 Reporting to the scorers table, not properly equipt, or not ready to wrestle or any equipment that is detected as being illegal after the match as started is a technical violation. According to 5-27, technical violations are to be penalized without warning. Rule 8 covers penalties and injuries. 8-1-1 states: Any contestant reporting to the scorers’ table not properly equipped or not ready to wrestle is a technical violation. A wrestler with greasy substance on the body or uniform, improper grooming, objectionable pads and braces, illegal equipment, illegal uniform or any equipment that is detected as being illegal after the match has started shall be disqualified if not removed or corrected within the 1 1/2-minute injury time. ... Most refs don’t want to be bad guys. We want to grow the sport. Help us avoid these types of calls by familiarizing yourselves with the rules and please share the information and knowledge you have gained with others. Also, if you have questions about these or any other rules, please use this site’s “Ask the Officials” Forum. A lot of times great questions can help us dig deeper into our knowledge of the rules and make us better officials...and from what I hear, everyone wants better officials.
  18. Best of luck with this. If you aren’t getting enough footage, maybe you can switch it to top 5 of the month. I’ve been shocked with how little I see teams taping recently. One of the best ways to get better is watching tape with someone who can point out what you are doing wrong. Also if teams created a highlight real, they could show it on the announcements at school, I bet you could garnish a bit more interest in the sport from both a spectators standing and recruiting kids to the sport.
  19. Well...I guess you might as well start the season with a boom.
  20. Let's go Sarah! Going for gold today. As the kids are saying these days: let's go get that bread!
  21. Sarah is into the semi-finals! 5-1 win over Kazakhstan and 15-9 win over Azerbaijan. She will take on Diana Mary Weicke of Canada in the semi finals. Go Sarah!
  22. Sadulaev...never heard of him. Is he any good?
  23. Facial hair has been permitted at Fr-Soph State and at the ISWA Folkstyke state tournament. That said, I think it depends on the beard. If it is deamed abrasive, your wrestler may be asked to shave. I’d say a little stubble would be permissible—but if the wrestler has the ability to grow beard of a 30 hipster, he’d better keep it trim. I’d suggest looking into the USA Wrestling rules about it, but last I heard there no rule against facial hair.
  24. Great informative commentary from one of Indiana’s finest wrestlers and youth coaches. I agree. It is a nice change of pace from years past.
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