bell103

You get 'em.

Your line of reasoning is just so far off its hard to take it seriously. You are putting the cart before the horse.
 
Teams aren't good because of the number of ranked guys they have. They get ranked because they're good and over the course of a season, every decent team has a chance to prove that.
 
You ridiculed the committee for their work and yet you still don't get it. If you want to find out how good a team is for a dual, write down all 14 guys. Look at their record. Look at their schedule. Look at what their record was last year. Look at where they placed in state tournament last year. I can honestly say that we seeded all of 3A and we didn't spend one second on the rankings page, because that's not how dual meets work, especially when you're looking at rankings three weeks into the season

There were obviously some problems but let the organizers look at solutions to the problems while keeping it at the Coliseum.  If the event gets moved every year then there will always be problems because its a new facility.  Having teams between mats, putting bleachers at the ends of both mats, using another section of the facility are all good solutions to multiple problems. 
 
Bathrooms and Concession stands will be a problem but if people know its a problem ahead of time then it will be much more tolerable.  Lets give this at least a couple of years to see how they can improve it where its at before just up and moving again. 

I was in "wrestling heaven"!!!!!!! I am a mom who has become a big big fan of wrestling. Watching my older boy wrestle was just the beginning and now I am watching my freshman. He has wrestled since kindergarten and now I am enjoying not only watching him, but all the other boys he has wrestled in the past. I thought the venue in Ft Wayne was awesome. It was filled with non-stop action all day!!!! For the first time, I saw teams like Bellmont, Prairie Heights and a few others from the north all under one roof and wrestling at the same place. I just went with the flow. If my sons team moved, I moved right with them and when it was his turn to wrestle, I found a place to watch him. There was so much energy in the room how could you not be excited!!!!!! It was an unbelievable day of wrestling with some of the BEST WRESTLERS in the state. I can't wait till next year!!!!!!!

This was the first time I have attended so I have nothing to compare it to, but having all the teams together in this format was great! I think the above is spot on about the venue. If some changes could be made and the venue expanded with more seating  and space it would be fine. Restrooms, I went 3-4 times during and never waiting more than  like 2 minutes so I think that is a bit much to complain  about.  It is hard for fans who are used to bringing in food to feed themselves and wrestlers to have that restriction placed on them when that is not the norm. Concessions are not that big of an issue in my opinion. If you can increase the space, seats,  and improve the site lines so  everyone can see it should work just fine. This is a huge undertaking and as a fan  from Knightstown I appreciated being  a part of it. Thanks to all who put it together!!

This team state idea won't get anywhere, anyone have any idea what the attendance was? Oh ya and great job Prairie Heights Panthers there first ever state championship of any sport ever.

I don't know guys, I still don't see why Brownsburg was deserving of the second seed.

It is tomorrow and Wednesday

It is tomorrow and Wednesday

I wonder how many other state qualifiers at 120 had all these "advantages".  Our state qualifier had a similar experience as you this season and the advice busco gave me was to "look at my practice schedule".   
 
How anyone can look at your experience and say you were on anything close to an equal playing field is baffling.  

Okay, good ideas. But what happens when your the only person on your team that does extra and when the season comes back around and you have..
1) No decent drill partners or maybe just one
2) You have to spend a hour a practice watching your coach demonstrate a half nelson
3) You spend another 1/2 hour of the practice helping kids because you want a successful team
4) After you're done with this you stay after to drill w/ coaches and your brother because you want to get a good workout yourself
 
This year I spent a TON of time helping my team, up till about the conference tournament then I started focusing on myself
Helping my team including planning practices( the drills and conditioning we would do that day), Hanging papers on around the room such as "Head Position" as a reminder. Scouting other teams and individuals, helping kids one - on - one, helping kids cut weight (taking them to the gym to run, helping with diet), and the hardest part, trying to get them to want to win.
 
On top of that I was also trying to win a state championship myself. Was it my job to do all of that? No, but I took it upon to myself to do it. 

Having now read through this topic, I come away with a couple things that need to be resolved before anything can be decided about this topic.
 
First, the large disagreement is whether or not individuals have equal opportunities to succeed at a 1A school as compared to a 3A school. I can tell you anecdotally (not gonna throw numbers out there at you, sorry) that I believe this to be true. Not only are 1A wrestlers committing more of their free time to other sports instead of specializing, the schools themselves lack the ability to attract high quality coaches that can build the program, leading to more wrestlers, growing of the sport,etc:
 
Think of it this way: If there are 5 English teachers at a school like Monrovia and 15 at a school like Mooresville where I currently work, there is a higher probability of there being an opening for an English Teaching Coach. Most of us agree that having a coach in the building makes recruiting and retaining wrestlers infinitely easier so having a job in the building for your coach helps your program. Small schools can't always offer this, let alone anywhere near the coaching stipend because their budgets are smaller. Even if you get an awesome fella who knows his stuff out there, who's going to help him? Even at a school of 358 kids, one coach can't do it himself and often there is only one stipend and it's not very big, certainly not big enough to split it up. So you rely on volunteers. Someone has to set up a youth league or club. Someone needs to run MS. You need enough coaches at the HS to help the kids of different levels become better wrestlers.
 
Because of this conundrum, even if a small school has the unique opportunity to produce a state qualifier or placer, AND that particular individual wants to go into education they cannot always offer a job to them to be on staff because of their limited number of openings. This pushes many graduates into schools that already have many advantages because they have more options to attract a wider array of coaches.
 
Quality coaches make for better wrestlers because they can develop these kids. If a school struggles just to find a quality coaching staff, how can they expect to have great individuals on their team?
 
Before I get the "these individuals just need to work harder in the off-season" argument. The IHSAA by-laws require a wrestler to only practice with his own teammates or coaches during the season. What if there's only one wrestler at that school who is putting in a ton of offseason work? He doesn't have quality practice partners to push him during the season and make himself better. His coaches may or may not be great wrestlers, but if there aren't enough of them, what does the coach do? Sacrifice his team's development so he can drill with his one stud to make him better? Or let his stud help out with the less experienced guys to build for the future? It's really a lose-lose.
 
I think if class wrestling was implemented, it could increase the interest at some of the smaller schools in being a state-qualifier, even if it is "watered-down". after they see their buddy come home with a state placement metal. Some of the fringe kids that didn't do it before are now in the room  and some are finding success. And as the team finds success, the numbers grow because people like to win. Because people like to win, these programs are getting more money invested in them by the schools and the community. More money from clubs and Athletic departments, leads to more cash in the budget for coaches to attract more assistants, to get new mats, to get singlets that weren't worn by their grandparent's generation and do things that will attract more kids to the sport.
 
I understand not everyone has experienced small school life, but I hope that you can see that the current system is not fair to these student-athletes. Why would a school with a tiny budget allot much to a wrestling program that has been a perennial loser and has 4 kids that don't get even get out of sectionals? It's a vicious cycle

or increasing the amount of qualifiers would just mean more kids from big schools would qualify 

I don't usually get into many discussions on here, especially about class wrestling. I just feel like we are too divided and no matter how I express my point, I'm never going to convince those that believe "if it ain't broke, don't fix it". I for one love our individual state finals and I really enjoyed our experience at team state this year. But...our individual finals is broken. When you have the disparity we have in SQ and place winners that we have, something is wrong.
 
I'll give you an example that is not wrestling related. My daughter qualified with her 200 relay team for the swim state finals this year. She's a fine swimmer and works her tail off, so did her teammates! They were seeded 32 and finished 29th. Rochester was the smallest school represented at state in ANY events! Twin Lakes was the second smallest. Everyone one else were 4A and 5A schools. If it was classed my daughter and her team would have been state champs in the 200 free relay. No other times from small schools were even close. They, our school, and her mom and I would have been just fine with that because they put in the work to be that good. The issue is we don't have the same resources that the Carmels, Penns, etc have. We just don't. That's not a matter of opinion...its a fact because I live it. We provide her with every opportunity we can but we can't provide her with what the Carmel Swim club can provide its' kids. If you think sports like wrestling and swimming shouldn't be classed, then you just dont get it or you don't care to.
 
Tomorrow Rochester will play Tippy Valley for the class 2A semi state bball title and I'll bet anyone we have more fans in attendance for the little ole 2A game then you will for any other game in the state. Over 5,000 tickets have been pre sold and they are not sure there will be enough parking at Warsaw HS (5A) school. Class all sports, give the small schools a chance to build their brand, and I think you'll see some great stuff happen in Indiana Wrestling. As an association we can get this done if we get on the same page!!

Nah, constant themes cutting weight, moves guys used to beat us, and always how tough our practices were. Everyone beat someone to get to regional, semi state, and state; only 14 end their career with a win. Respect for doing what we all had to do to compete has made the accolades less important and fellowship strong.
 
Do what ever we need to do to get more kids involved and 35 years after it is all over they will still be thanking and remembering their coaches!

Nope, speaking from no experience.

you obviously have no idea how athletes at a small school work. One season ends and another begins
 
Your attitude says,"screw kids who don't want to wrestle year round, we don't need them."
 
Our argument is:"if we don't keep those kids who play other sports, the sport is not getting stronger in our state, it's weakening."

So in your opinion:
A kid in today's generation can
 
A: wrestle on a small school team and finish 5th at sectional along w rest of his team and be done for year
Or
 
B: Qualify for state, accomplish a goal, gain recognition from his peers and family, and practice for two more weeks with his coaches and teammates
 
 
And you think after all that, you'll have the exact same talent level?
 
What happened to just working harder? Isn't that kid working harder?
 
Or does he not care because you don't care?

I love our single class state tournament, it may be one of the coolest events in high school sports.  I have become a fan of the idea of classing over the last couple of years because of the opinion that it will increase participation in smaller schools. Increasing exposure of our sport to more people. Eventually raising the level of wrestling in Indiana.
 
It very well may be an easier path for small school wrestlers to make it to a 2 class state tournament.  I can see that as more small school kids see that reaching state is a possibility that these kids will put in more offseason work to be one of the wrestlers to earn one of these spots. It will create more competition for these spots as time goes on. Increasing the difficulty of reaching state in the smaller class.  There are also more state births available at the same time in the larger class. Giving more kids the opportunity to be a state qualifier, the level of difficulty will increase as our level of wrestling increases.
 
That is why I am for class wrestling...

Again, I ask how is a single class individual tournament good for the sport of wrestling in our state?  I love the current tournament, but only because I like to watch it.  I like watching the Lakers and Knicks lose, too...but it isn't good for the NBA. 
 
We have proposed some hypotheses on how a two-class system would benefit Indiana wrestling.  So far, I have seen no posts that say how a single class system is beneficial. 

154 2A schools produced 186 state qualifiers
 
154 1A schools produced 38 state qualifiers
 
One of these days the 1A coaches are going to learn that if they just start working harder, they will start having success. Once that happens, watch out!!!
You realize that Danville is a 2A school in a two class system.
Most points scored by a 1A school: 23 by Adams Central, good for 8th place

Why haven't they had any wrestling state champions?
 

In wrestling you must wrestle with your team, you cannot go train elsewhere during the season.
 
 
That would be a travesty, but I'm sure your spot would be filled up, so no one would miss you.
 
 
How many is "many?" 3A schools average less than a half forfeit per team.
 
 
He would be able to wrestle the top competition during the season at events like the Al Smith, Connersville, Mooresville, etc. Also he would be able to test himself against the whole state in offseason events like folkstyle/freestyle state or national events. If he was concerned if he was the "best" he would seek out that competition.
 
With over 3 forfeits per team at the 1A level, not sure how this is "working."
It's hard to get newspaper and media coverage when you take a few to regional and maybe a few to semi-state. You and I both know the real reason for the downward trend at South Adams. Don't play dumb. Less than 10 years ago I heard coaches bragging about having 100 kids in their elementary program and such.

I do remember the point being made a while back that the IHsWCA had no intention of creating an event that the IHSAA would adopt. While I am glad the committee, whenever amd however they meet, did decide to take some action, I do think the focus should be on making the event as attractive and competitive as possible. I doubt any of the ten teams that are in between the rule of five and the rule of three care one way or the other about this topic at all.

Again, the committee doesn't answer the questions.
 
1. I'm pretty sure the teams with 5 or fewer wrestlers are aware they won't qualify. There's no one that says their scores can't be calculated or their success tracked. Why is eliminating teams with 2 wrestlers "all in" but eliminating teams with 5 not?
 
2. Is this selection process something that is in line with IHSAA principles in the first place?
 
A team with 10 wrestlers can win a dual match, a team with 4 or 5 cannot. A decision made on principle and not what is in the best interest of the event is pretty weak, honestly.