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How would class wrestling work in Indiana?


decbell1

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A while back, some friends and I were discussing the merits of classing the state wrestling tournament. We said that one of the biggest hurdles to moving to a classed system is that no one really knows how it would work.

With that in mind, we have developed the following proposal. THIS PROPOSAL IS PURELY FOR CONVERSATION AND DEBATE, as we know something like this isn’t going to just automatically be picked up by the IHSAA.

If you are interested, please read through the proposal and ask questions and feel free to make suggestions and comments or ask why we did something the way we did.

Attached is the projected top three finishers at each individual sectional.

 

Sectional

8-11 team sectionals

16 1A Sectionals

16 2A Sectionals

full wrestlebacks (including round of 16 losers)

Advance 3 to SS

 

Semi-State

same 4 sites

12 qualifiers each class

4 mats throughout day

Sectional winners get bye

1A on 2 mats, 2A on other 2

38-40 teams from each class

Advance 4 to State

 

State Finals

16 qualifiers each class

6 mats on Friday night/Saturday Morning

wrestle 7/8 place before break

4 mats for ¾ & 5/6

2 mats for simultaneous finals

 

 

Sectional 1 (9): East Chicago Central, Gary West Side, Griffith, Hammond, Hammond Clark, Hammond Gavit, Hammond Morton, Highland, Munster

Sectional 2 (9): Chesterton, Crown Point, Hobart, Lake Central, Lowell, Merrillville, Michigan City, Portage, Valparaiso

Sectional 3 (9): LaPorte, Mishawaka, New Prairie, Penn, South Bend Adams, South Bend Clay, South Bend Riley, South Bend St. Joseph’s, South Bend Washington

Sectional 4 (11): Culver Academies, Frankfort, Kankakee Valley, Harrison (West Lafayette), Lafayette Jefferson, Logansport, McCutcheon, Terre Haute North, Terre Haute South, Twin Lakes, West Lafayette

Sectional 5 (10): Concord, Elkhart Central, Elkhart Memorial, Goshen, Northridge, Northwood, Plymouth, Warsaw, Wawasee, West Noble

Sectional 6 (9): Angola, Carroll (FW), Columbia City, DeKalb, East Noble, Fort Wayne Bishop Dwenger, Fort Wayne Northrop, Fort Wayne Snider, Leo

Sectional 7 (9): Bellmont, Homestead, Huntington North, Jay County, Fort Wayne North Side, Fort Wayne South Side, Fort Wayne Wayne, New Haven, Norwell

Sectional 8 (9): Anderson, Delta, Kokomo,, Marion, Misssissinewa, Muncie Central, Pendleton Heights, Western, Yorktown

Sectional 9 (10): Connersville, Franklin Central, Franklin County, Greenfield Central, Mt. Vernon (Fortville), New Castle, New Palestine, Richmond, Rushville, Shelbyville

Sectional 10 (10): Carmel, Fishers, Guerin Catholic, Hamilton Heights, Hamilton Southeastern, Lebanon, Noblesville, North Central, Westfield, Zionsville

Sectional 11 (10): Avon, Ben Davis, Brebeuf Jesuit, Brownsburg, Danville, Decatur Central,  Indianapolis Northwest, Plainfield, Pike, Perry Meridian

Sectional 12 (10): Arsenal Tech, Bishop Chatard, Beech Grove, Indianapolis Cathedral, Indianapolis Marshall, Lawrence Central, Lawrence North, Roncalli, Southport, Warren Central

Sectional 13 (11): Batesville, Center Grove, Columbus East, Columbus North, East Central, Franklin Community, Greenwood, Martinsville, Mooresville, South Dearborn, Whiteland

Sectional 14 (10): Bedford North Lawrence, Charlestown, Corydon Central, Floyd Central, Jeffersonville, Jennings County, Madison, New Albany, Scottsburg, Seymour

Sectional 15 (8): Bloomington North, Bloomington South, Edgewood, Jasper, Northview, Owen Valley, Vincennes Lincoln, Washington

Sectional 16 (10): Boonville, Castle, Evansville Bosse, Evansville Central, Evansville Harrison, Evansville Mater Dei, Evansville Memorial, Evansville North, Evansville Reitz, Mount Vernon (Posey)

 

Sectional 17 (9): Andrean, Boone Grove, Calumet, Hammond Bishop Noll, Hanover Central, Lake Station Edison, River Forest, Wheeler, Whiting

Sectional 18 (9): Benton Central, Caston, North Newton, North White, Pioneer, Renssalear Central, South Newton, West Central, Winamac

Sectional 19 (10): Bremen, Culver Community, Glenn, Hebron, Knox, Laville, Mishawaka Marian, North Judson, Rochester, Triton

Sectional 20 (10): Carroll (Flora), Cass, Clinton Central, Clinton Prairie, Delphi, Faith Christian, Frontier, Lafayette Central Catholic, Northwestern, Rossville

Sectional 21 (9): Central Noble, Eastside, Fairfield, Fremont, Garrett, Jimtown, Lakeland, Prairie Heights, Westview

Sectional 22 (9): Maconaquah, Manchester, North Miami, Northfield, Peru, Southwood, Tippecanoe Valley, Wabash, Whitko

Sectional 23 (10): Adams Central, Blackford, Bluffton, Churubusco, Fort Wayne Bishop Luers, Fort Wayne Concordia, Heritage, South Adams, Southern Wells, Woodlan

Sectional 24 (11): Daleville, Eastbrook, Eastern (Greentown), Madison-Grant, Monroe Central, OakHill, Randolph Southern, Union City, Wapahani, Wes-Del, Winchester

Sectional 25 (9): Alexandria, Eastern Hancock, Elwood, Frankton, Lapel, Taylor, Tipton, Tri-Central, Sheridan

Sectional 26 (9): Blue River Valley, Cambridge City Lincoln, Centerville, Hagerstown, Knightstown, Northeastern, Shenandoah, Tri, Union County

Sectional 27 (11):Indianapolis Blind, Indianapolis Broad Ripple, Indianapolis Cardinal Ritter, Indianapolis Crispus Attucks, Indianapolis Deaf, Indianapolis Howe Academy, Indianapolis Manual, Indianapolis Scecina, Indianapolis Shortridge, Indianapolis Washington, Speedway

Sectional 28 (10): Cascade, Cloverdale, Crawfordsville, Greencastle, North Putnam, North Montgomery, Southmont, South Putnam , Tri-West, Western Boone

Sectional 29 (9): Brown County, Greensburg, Indian Creek, Lawrenceburg, Milan, Monrovia, Southwestern (Hanover), Switzerland County, Triton Central

Sectional 30 (10): Attica, Covington, Fountain Central, North Vermillion, Rockville, Seeger, South Vermillion, Sullivan, Turkey Run, West Vigo

Sectional 31 (9): Crawford County, Eastern (Pekin), Forest Park, Mitchell, New Washington, Paoli, Providence, Salem, Tell City

Sectional 32 (10): Gibson Southern, Heritage Hills, North Knox, North Posey, Pike Central, Princeton, South Spencer, Southridge, Tecumseh, Wood Memorial


Waiting on Y2 to help me with the upload of the excel file, will be up shortly.

Edited by decbell1
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Here it is in PDF.


So instead of a 3 class system we use for team state duals you would like to see a 2 class system?

Yes, we debated 3 classes or two for a long time, but we felt a 3 class individual system would so drastically change state weekend as we know it that it would never gain support. There is at least precedence for 2 classes now in soccer with the IHSAA.

2015 Classed Individual Results-Sectional.pdf

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Why would we go to a classed system? Our tournament is one of the best in the country as it is.

In your opinion, are wrestling programs growing in Indiana, or are they getting smaller and less competitive?

 

How many new programs are being added? How many are being dropped?

 

What percentage of 2A wrestlers entered at sectional will qualify for state?

What percentage of 1A wrestlers entered at sectional will qualify for state?

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Nice work and interesting to see it written out. I think soccer is 2 classes based on number of programs participating and that it would change if more schools started teams. Thanks for sharing this breakdown, am sure a lot of work was involved!

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I just don't think it is broken. Again, we have an excellent tournament. I am NOT concerned that only 16 kids call themselves SQs....it is an elite group. Not to mention, the lessons learned in wrestling are learned regardless of your finish (Sectional Qualifier or State Champion).

 

Let's ask Oak Hill who had 10 semi-state qualifiers if they want class wrestling ( seriously, I have no idea if they would like it or not). I would guess their school is buzzing with support for their 10 qualifiers (essentially these kids are viewed as champions by their coaches and classmates whether ANY of them qualify for state or not).

 

Just my opinion.

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I just don't think it is broken. Again, we have an excellent tournament. I am NOT concerned that only 16 kids call themselves SQs....it is an elite group. Not to mention, the lessons learned in wrestling are learned regardless of your finish (Sectional Qualifier or State Champion).

 

Let's ask Oak Hill who had 10 semi-state qualifiers if they want class wrestling ( seriously, I have no idea if they would like it or not). I would guess their school is buzzing with support for their 10 qualifiers (essentially these kids are viewed as champions by their coaches and classmates whether ANY of them qualify for state or not).

 

Just my opinion.

What would it hurt to have 32 guys call themselves state qualifiers? It still would be just over 10% of the wrestlers, that is a pretty elite group.

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I think that you will find that the 2A results will reflect the actual results for the most part, we would just be bringing a whole other group of kids to Bankers Life. I would love to see what Union City HS would do with 2 or 3 state qualifiers. What an opportunity for that program to advertise itself to their student body.

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It wouldn't hurt anything per se.

 

I just firmly believe we have a top notch tournament series as it is.

 

Class the Team portion and leave individual tourney alone.

 

I think that you will find that the 2A results will reflect the actual results for the most part, we would just be bringing a whole other group of kids to Bankers Life. I would love to see what Union City HS would do with 2 or 3 state qualifiers. What an opportunity for that program to advertise itself to their student body.

Good point Decebell, but with all due respect, I still don't like the notion of classing individual portion. Just my opinion. I will shut up now and not continue to high jack your thread and hard work! Lol

Edited by BeastMode#31
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Back in the day I was at this small school and was there when being a regional qualifier was "something special." Heck, I was the 2nd, yes SECOND ever semi-state qualifier in school history!  Once that school started getting state qualifiers the level of the WHOLE program changed. 

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32 is fine but why class it. Just take 8 from each semi state and have the ticket round be first round of semi state.

Because that wouldn't help small schools.

 

Right now its at roughly 75% of the state qualifiers are from big schools. Increasing the state qualifier number wouldn't exactly help those numbers. You would still have an overwhelming majority of the state qualifiers from big schools.

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Yeah i love it...Sectional 10, 7 of the teams cant field a full team...might want to realign with Sectional 11 just a thought or a 2hr sectional would be awesome...

 

We actually debated this A LOT. Does the IHSAA make sectional assignments based solely on geography? Or do they try to separate traditionally  good teams from each other?

 

We tried to keep our sectional assignments as geographical as possible. I suspect that if the IHSAA did something like this, we would not see sectional #2 as loaded as it is and some of those teams would swap with others in sectional 1.

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Back in the day I was at this small school and was there when being a regional qualifier was "something special." Heck, I was the 2nd, yes SECOND ever semi-state qualifier in school history!  Once that school started getting state qualifiers the level of the WHOLE program changed.

 

But the beautiful thing is that YOU helped plant the seeds in that program that allowed your program to grow to another level. You contributed indirectly to these young men who went a step further than you, whether you realize it or not.

 

If you read Hooks book he illustrates this type of upstart with the Mater Dei program. They took many lumps along the way, but they kept going and going. Small successes led to bigger ones and so on and so on...the next thing you know they got a couple signature wins and the community started supporting the team.

 

Or we could just skip the years of hard work and dedication (see Perry, EMD, Bellmont, Yorktown, South Adams, Oak Hill, etc.) and just add more classes and state qualifiers.

 

I prefer the Perry, EMD, Bellmont, Yorktown, South Adams, Oak Hill, etc. route.

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how many states rank ahead of Indiana in wrestling? How many are classed?

How many nearly double or triple or quadruple Indiana's population?

 

Ohio and Illinois are two of the top wrestling states around us that are classed but they both nearly double our population.

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The IHSAA bylaws call for 3 classes if a sport has 75% of the schools fielding a team. There are 410 member schools. 75% of 410 would be 307.5.   There are 308 schools on the list you posted.

 

Wow, you taught me something new. I guess that makes sense. I was unaware they have guidelines for number of classes, but it does make sense. That being said, we are right there at the 2 class mark.

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It depends, i coach at a school that has only had 2 Qualifiers Ever and 1 that moved in High School (Tanner Lynde) these boys walk by that wall everyday and see there pictures hanging up and they work harder now wanting to have to kniw THEY did it, and that they deserve being one of the Top 16 in the state...So im fine with it staying the way it is....

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