The US OPEN Results

[SIACfan]

1 hour ago, Y2CJ41 said:

It was a weird situation and thankfully it was two wrestlers from the same team or else there would have been major uproar.

 

That brings up an interesting question. If it had been different teams & there had been resistance to overturning who won the match, what is the protocol?

 

Is there is limited amount of time that the result of the match can be challenged?

Does it have to been done before the wrestlers leave the mat?

Or is it as simply as; OK we screwed the criteria up at the scorer's table - Nick Lee is the winner?

And that can happen at any time?

Or Would Nick &/or his coaches have to challenge?

Or could the scorer's table catch the error & reverse it without any challenge?

 

As I alluded to earlier, it seems to me when a score is tied & a match (especially of this magnitude) is decided on criteria that it would be appropriate to take a little time to ensure that the correct winner is being declared. Have the officials & the scorers gather long enough to be sure about the outcome of the criteria.

[Mattyb]

On 5/4/2023 at 9:39 AM, BrodyHardcastle said:

Hated to see his match end like that especially when he had the cradle locked up!

Yeah… you can’t get defensive pinned in freestyle so I thought he won. I guess the ref said he grabbed Braylon’s leg. Tough one for sure! Our guy wrestled his ass off. Other than that one situation, he dominated. Great tournament for him. 

[BrodyHardcastle]

1 minute ago, Mattyb said:

Yeah… you can’t get defensive pinned in freestyle so I thought he won. I guess the ref said he grabbed Braylon’s leg. Tough one for sure! Our guy wrestled his ass off. Other than that one situation, he dominated. Great tournament for him. 

Thought the same thing, I thought Chad was going to win the challenge. I also was confused at first because the ref wouldn't acknowledge the challenge and threw it back immediately. I think everyone was confused on the situation.

[SWINfan]

On 5/4/2023 at 10:49 AM, Y2CJ41 said:

Per what Nick stated the table workers gave the caution to Nick when it should have been to Bartlett and thus that is why it showed Bartlett winning. There were only like 3 seconds left after that sequence so very little time for coaches, wrestlers, table workers, refs, etc to correct the issue.

Honestly, that's one of the things I hate about freestyle and the criteria deciding matches.  I'm sure I'm in the minority, but it seems like it would be tough mat side to immediately know who is ahead if the scoring isn't automatically doing it for you.  Especially in a higher scoring match.  I had heard the same thing about it being a scorer's error with the caution and that being 2 NLWC guys they were kind of hands off, including possibly throwing a brick during the match.  

But I don't know how many times I've watched a match and a late score happens and I have no clue who won until I see it on the screen.  I'm doing well enough just to keep up with the score, not who had 4, 2, and 1s vs who had 4, 2, 2, and so on.  And in the case of this match, it was obvious in those last few seconds that Lee thought he was losing and Bartlett thought he was winning so that time becomes lost.  So the end of the match, in this case only 3 seconds didn't allow for Bartlett to make a last ditch effort. 
FS rules still don't make a lot of sense to me sometimes. For example, if a guy is defending a shot and rolls his opponent over giving him 2 for exposure then finishes the move on top, why doesn't he get 2 for the takedown?  Yet, if he gets a takedown and exposure he gets for for feet to back.  I don't get why they aren't the same thing when the same wrestler ends up on top and in control.  //End rant/rambling

[SWINfan]

On 5/4/2023 at 10:49 AM, Y2CJ41 said:

Per what Nick stated the table workers gave the caution to Nick when it should have been to Bartlett and thus that is why it showed Bartlett winning. There were only like 3 seconds left after that sequence so very little time for coaches, wrestlers, table workers, refs, etc to correct the issue.

.

Edited May 5, 2023 by SWINfan
Duplicate post

[SWINfan]

On 5/4/2023 at 10:49 AM, Y2CJ41 said:

Per what Nick stated the table workers gave the caution to Nick when it should have been to Bartlett and thus that is why it showed Bartlett winning. There were only like 3 seconds left after that sequence so very little time for coaches, wrestlers, table workers, refs, etc to correct the issue.

Joe did Nick mention who discovered the error and how long it took them to sort it all out?  My brain has a picture of Bartlett on a bike doing a cool down 10 minutes after the match and one of the coaches says "Hey bud, sorry but you lost and aren't going to the final."  And then what a nightmare it would have been had it been wrestlers from opposing teams!

[SIACfan]

17 hours ago, SWINfan said:

FS rules still don't make a lot of sense to me sometimes. For example, if a guy is defending a shot and rolls his opponent over giving him 2 for exposure then finishes the move on top, why doesn't he get 2 for the takedown?  Yet, if he gets a takedown and exposure he gets for for feet to back.  I don't get why they aren't the same thing when the same wrestler ends up on top and in control. 

 

Well, a 4 point move is only awarded for feet to back. Usually when a wrestler is defending a shot and rolls his opponent for 2 exposure it is not feet to back. This almost always happens when the wrestler being rolled for exposure is down on the mat caught under his opponent after a shot attempt. 

 

It is why every so often you see a TD that appears to have exposed the defender but 4 is not awarded because they determine that the defending wrestler was off his feet when the TD occured.

 

But I agree there are things about freestyle scoring that seems odd & even frustrating for people who grew up in folkstyle. Like when a wrestler who takes his opponent feet to back for 4 but never really has control & the defender ends up on top with control. That wrestler only gets 1 for reversal. So in essence a scramble happens but the wrestler who ends up in control losses the point exchange 1-4. To folkstyle minded people this can be very hard to wrap your head around.

[Cmoney125]

Some things to think about when watching freestyle to help with understanding the scoring. The scoring is set up to reward the wrestling creating action. That's why sometimes even when the defending wrestler rolls someone through, unless they stop the momentum or change the direction of the momentum, the attacking wrestler will get the 2 or 4. Also, control is completely irrelevant in freestyle, exposure is all that matters. If you initated the move that caused exposure, you get points. Also, if a move starts inbounds, you can finish it out of bounds for the full points. Also, criteria is again set up to reward the wrestler that took the biggest risk or initated the most action in the match. Thats why highest point move and cautions are 1 and 2 on the list. Hopefully this helps with the frustration and makes it more understandable when you see it.

[GenHeavyHandz]

8 hours ago, Cmoney125 said:

Some things to think about when watching freestyle to help with understanding the scoring. The scoring is set up to reward the wrestling creating action. That's why sometimes even when the defending wrestler rolls someone through, unless they stop the momentum or change the direction of the momentum, the attacking wrestler will get the 2 or 4. Also, control is completely irrelevant in freestyle, exposure is all that matters. If you initated the move that caused exposure, you get points. Also, if a move starts inbounds, you can finish it out of bounds for the full points. Also, criteria is again set up to reward the wrestler that took the biggest risk or initated the most action in the match. Thats why highest point move and cautions are 1 and 2 on the list. Hopefully this helps with the frustration and makes it more understandable when you see it.

This guy has a grasp of the rules .  The things you mentioned are the reason I prefer the international styles.  Can't stall.  You get rewarded for execution.  It makes for more exciting wrestling from the lay persons standpoint.  If they added overtime it would be nearly perfect.

[Disco]

On 5/5/2023 at 5:28 PM, SWINfan said:

Honestly, that's one of the things I hate about freestyle and the criteria deciding matches.  I'm sure I'm in the minority, but it seems like it would be tough mat side to immediately know who is ahead if the scoring isn't automatically doing it for you.  Especially in a higher scoring match.  I had heard the same thing about it being a scorer's error with the caution and that being 2 NLWC guys they were kind of hands off, including possibly throwing a brick during the match.  

But I don't know how many times I've watched a match and a late score happens and I have no clue who won until I see it on the screen.  I'm doing well enough just to keep up with the score, not who had 4, 2, and 1s vs who had 4, 2, 2, and so on.  And in the case of this match, it was obvious in those last few seconds that Lee thought he was losing and Bartlett thought he was winning so that time becomes lost.  So the end of the match, in this case only 3 seconds didn't allow for Bartlett to make a last ditch effort. 
FS rules still don't make a lot of sense to me sometimes. For example, if a guy is defending a shot and rolls his opponent over giving him 2 for exposure then finishes the move on top, why doesn't he get 2 for the takedown?  Yet, if he gets a takedown and exposure he gets for for feet to back.  I don't get why they aren't the same thing when the same wrestler ends up on top and in control.  //End rant/rambling

Just an aside here, but kind of like this years semi state at Evansville! Who scored what? Who knows what the score really is? Who got the two pts awarded?  Reversal or was time clock expired? Seems like it’s becoming contagious! Spreading nation wide!

[SIACfan]

23 hours ago, Cmoney125 said:

Also, control is completely irrelevant in freestyle, exposure is all that matters.

 

This is 100% correct & a big reason why freestyle scoring can be confusing to folkstyle minded people. In folkstyle control is everything, and exposure means nothing if you can't control it long enough for a count.

 

I'm not trying to say one is better than the other. Personally I like both. But I grew up with & spent the vast majority of my career wrestling folkstyle. Thus I do have a stronger affinity for folkstyle. But I am very happy to see that folkstyle has evolved to the point where our wrestlers now have a better chance of making the transition to freestyle more easily. It is great to see how far the US has come on the world stage. And FYI, I think this is only going to get better.

[SIACfan]

14 hours ago, GenHeavyHandz said:

The things you mentioned are the reason I prefer the international styles.

 

Blasphemy, folkstyle rules!

 

I always knew there was something off about you.

Edited May 8, 2023 by SIACfan

[GenHeavyHandz]

1 hour ago, SIACfan said:

 

Blasphemy, folkstyle rules!

 

I always knew there was something off about you.

Don't be a boomer get with the times.  Folkstyle is required to compete scholastically. So I tolerate it.  Personally: I'd rather throw ya than know ya.  Freco is the way to go.  The ultimate prize isn't high school state or an NCAA Championship: It's Olympic Gold.