Wrestling Scholar Posted February 28, 2014 Share Posted February 28, 2014 dont bother answering any questions. maybe you should do the work to get classed wrestling in indiana the level of competition needs to improve before classes should be introduced maybe you should go to the small schools to improve their wrestlers or you could get everyone in favor of classed wrestling to boycott the HS season next year. that would speak volumes Come on Y2, Go easy on MadtownX. We not only cant have the state tournament if he's not there, but he's going to boycott the whole season. I want to see some wrestling. Lets appease him somehow! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Madtownxwrestler Posted February 28, 2014 Share Posted February 28, 2014 We can't have a classed system because you won't attend, plain and simple. Until you give it your blessing and will attend the argument is null and void. like i said when you dont have an intelligent argument (which is more often then not) you kick and scream like a kid in the cereal isle two classes is way too many since we want to compare to other states pennsylvania has two classes in a 40 year span indiana has had 44 D1 AAs and pennsylvania has had 504 D1 AAs heck they have even had more national champions than we have had AAs at 73 D1 national champs so if they only need 2 classes what makes you think we need two??? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Y2CJ41 Posted February 28, 2014 Share Posted February 28, 2014 like i said when you dont have an intelligent argument (which is more often then not) you kick and scream like a kid in the cereal isle two classes is way too many since we want to compare to other states pennsylvania has two classes in a 40 year span indiana has had 44 D1 AAs and pennsylvania has had 504 D1 AAs heck they have even had more national champions than we have had AAs at 73 D1 national champs so if they only need 2 classes what makes you think we need two??? Quit with the stats, the only one I need to know is if you will attend the event. That is all the state, myself and the IHSAA needs to know. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Madtownxwrestler Posted February 28, 2014 Share Posted February 28, 2014 Quit with the stats, the only one I need to know is if you will attend the event. That is all the state, myself and the IHSAA needs to know. you can continue to attack me but you are making yourself look like a fool while i destroy nearly every reason you can think of that indiana should have a classed individual tournament Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Y2CJ41 Posted February 28, 2014 Share Posted February 28, 2014 you can continue to attack me but you are making yourself look like a fool while i destroy nearly every reason you can think of that indiana should have a classed individual tournament The only reason I need is if you will attend or not. That is bigger than any statistic I can come up with. Your attendance at the state finals is needed. Hopefully we can preserve your body when you die so we can still have the event. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Madtownxwrestler Posted February 28, 2014 Share Posted February 28, 2014 The only reason I need is if you will attend or not. That is bigger than any statistic I can come up with. Your attendance at the state finals is needed. Hopefully we can preserve your body when you die so we can still have the event. you know the worst part is that this is literally the most intelligent thing you have said in this entire thread. yet it is still extremely stupid Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bog190 Posted February 28, 2014 Share Posted February 28, 2014 you can continue to attack me but you are making yourself look like a fool while i destroy nearly every reason you can think of that indiana should have a classed individual tournament You have absolutely demolished him Madtown, your stats are incredible, and your intellect is unmatched. Keep up the good work. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Y2CJ41 Posted February 28, 2014 Share Posted February 28, 2014 you know the worst part is that this is literally the most intelligent thing you have said in this entire thread. yet it is still extremely stupid Why is it stupid? You are the one who said you will boycott a classed state finals. I agree, your attendance is mandatory and we cannot have a state finals without you. Please take this as sincere as it gets, no statistic is greater than Madtownxwrestler's attendance at this event. Without you in attendance the event will be worthless. I am agreeing with you, I am waving a white flag of surrender. I am an idiot for ever thinking a classed system is good for the state. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fabio Jr. Posted February 28, 2014 Share Posted February 28, 2014 You haven't destroyed anything. All of your "arguments" have been from the viewpoint of whats better for the fans. Whats better for the kids and the sport? Smaller schools being able to have more of a shot to make it to state would make it easier to get kids out. Thus getting more kids on wrestling mats. Thus more kids wrestling in the off season because they were close to placing they could taste it. 10 years down the road we have more quality wrestlers. This is not an overnight sort of thing. I could careless if you feel the talent is better or worse honestly I don't know if you even have an eye for talent. Avoid ours if it happens and drive to Kentucky and watch that superior tournament. The loss of 50 crazy people will be minuscule to the 100's of new fans who come support their small town athletes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wrestling Scholar Posted February 28, 2014 Share Posted February 28, 2014 haha this from a person who has a hollow answer for every question, or ignores the questions completely but changes the subject, or gives you numbers that only line up with his agenda even if it means changing the facts. MadtownX, I used your data and showed that class wrestling states produced more AA on average. But that didnt line up with your agenda so that was ignored. In the debate of court of the forum, I say Y2 provides statistical data to back up his arguments. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bog190 Posted February 28, 2014 Share Posted February 28, 2014 States like penn ams Ohio are outliers and shouldn't be counted lol Your response to Wrestling Scholar using actual logic to dismiss your claims. You ignored his data just like Y2's. Its not close in the battle of who is destroying who. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Madtownxwrestler Posted February 28, 2014 Share Posted February 28, 2014 You haven't destroyed anything. All of your "arguments" have been from the viewpoint of whats better for the fans. Whats better for the kids and the sport? Smaller schools being able to have more of a shot to make it to state would make it easier to get kids out. Thus getting more kids on wrestling mats. Thus more kids wrestling in the off season because they were close to placing they could taste it. 10 years down the road we have more quality wrestlers. This is not an overnight sort of thing. I could careless if you feel the talent is better or worse honestly I don't know if you even have an eye for talent. Avoid ours if it happens and drive to Kentucky and watch that superior tournament. The loss of 50 crazy people will be minuscule to the 100's of new fans who come support their small town athletes. please show proof that the numbers have went up for the small schools that have attended the ihswca team tournament. milan won the small school title and cant field a full team but you seem to think they should have more kids join the wrestling team than actually attend the school MadtownX, I used your data and showed that class wrestling states produced more AA on average. But that didnt line up with your agenda so that was ignored. In the debate of court of the forum, I say Y2 provides statistical data to back up his arguments. of course there are less AA from unclassed states there are only 8 states that do not have classes one of them only has one team in the entire state other states total teams 32, 39, 56, and 75 the other three states are indiana NJ and cali Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Y2CJ41 Posted February 28, 2014 Share Posted February 28, 2014 The only stat we need to know is if Madtownxwrestler will attend the event. I think when making decisions with the IHSAA they need to get his approval. He is very integral to our sport and if he is not in attendance we cannot go on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
munges Posted February 28, 2014 Share Posted February 28, 2014 You haven't destroyed anything. All of your "arguments" have been from the viewpoint of whats better for the fans. Whats better for the kids and the sport? Smaller schools being able to have more of a shot to make it to state would make it easier to get kids out. Thus getting more kids on wrestling mats. Thus more kids wrestling in the off season because they were close to placing they could taste it. 10 years down the road we have more quality wrestlers. This is not an overnight sort of thing. I could careless if you feel the talent is better or worse honestly I don't know if you even have an eye for talent. Avoid ours if it happens and drive to Kentucky and watch that superior tournament. The loss of 50 crazy people will be minuscule to the 100's of new fans who come support their small town athletes. This is a legitimate question and not rhetoric for or against. Why is N.J. always considered one of the top wrestling states in the nation if they do not run a classed wrestling season? Y2 has referenced that N.J. schools are fairly close in size. Yet the same argument I hear for class wrestling is that if we get the number of kids going to state it will bring better exposure for our sport. Would that argument not hold true for N.J.? Please don't attack me either side I am trying to sort it out in my mind :-\ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bog190 Posted February 28, 2014 Share Posted February 28, 2014 please show proof that the numbers have went up for the small schools that have attended the ihswca team tournament. milan won the small school title and cant field a full team but you seem to think they should have more kids join the wrestling team than actually attend the school of course there are less AA from unclassed states there are only 8 states that do not have classes one of them only has one team in the entire state other states total teams 32, 39, 56, and 75 the other three states are indiana NJ and cali Milan has not won the small school title, Adams Central in year one and Busco in year two. Whats being discussed is classing both individual AND team. Individual success will be just as big of a draw as team success, probably more. If you are saying "of course there are less AA," then why did you say in your post that classed states don't perform well? A quote from you "so yea the majority of classed states dont do well nationally." That seems contradictory, weird..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Madtownxwrestler Posted February 28, 2014 Share Posted February 28, 2014 more state qualifiers will make more kids wrestle this is the number one thing i hear in madison through the late 90s there were multiple state qualifiers and placers winning sectionals 6 times in a row ending that streak with the last title in 01 i graduated in 2004 and that was the last time we had a full lineup then we had a 4 time state qualifier who was a senior in 2005 we had both the fish brothers qualify for state and then jordan partee last year and jordan again this year with mitchell sandlin we gave up 3 forfeits at sectionals. so having state qualifiers has certainly not made more kids join wrestling in our school in fact numbers have went down Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TripleB Posted February 28, 2014 Share Posted February 28, 2014 more state qualifiers will make more kids wrestle this is the number one thing i hear in madison through the late 90s there were multiple state qualifiers and placers winning sectionals 6 times in a row ending that streak with the last title in 01 i graduated in 2004 and that was the last time we had a full lineup then we had a 4 time state qualifier who was a senior in 2005 we had both the fish brothers qualify for state and then jordan partee last year and jordan again this year with mitchell sandlin we gave up 3 forfeits at sectionals. so having state qualifiers has certainly not made more kids join wrestling in our school in fact numbers have went down The terrible coaches run them off. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Y2CJ41 Posted February 28, 2014 Share Posted February 28, 2014 This is a legitimate question and not rhetoric for or against. Why is N.J. always considered one of the top wrestling states in the nation if they do not run a classed wrestling season? Y2 has referenced that N.J. schools are fairly close in size. Yet the same argument I hear for class wrestling is that if we get the number of kids going to state it will bring better exposure for our sport. Would that argument not hold true for N.J.? Please don't attack me either side I am trying to sort it out in my mind :-\ New Jersey allows 24 competitors per weight to qualify for state. They also do not have the disparity between big and small school success as we do. If big and small schools had at least somewhat close in the number of state qualifiers it would be hard to argue class wrestling. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wrestling Scholar Posted February 28, 2014 Share Posted February 28, 2014 of course there are less AA from unclassed states there are only 8 states that do not have classes one of them only has one team in the entire state other states total teams 32, 39, 56, and 75 the other three states are indiana NJ and cali MadtownX- I see the point or your argument. So lets look at this from a real statistical method. I took the average number of schools per state with class wrestling and without class wrestling . Here's the results. 8 states with no class wrestling = 221 schools per state 41 states without class wrestling = 194 schools per state So heres the conclusion using your data and statisitics that you find important. Wouldnt want to change the facts as you hate that. States with class wrestling have less schools on average but produce more all-americans. States with class wrestling have more schools on average butl produce less All-Americans. Boom!! You're just lost the debate again and were using your selected stat and data. If you keep going, your going to convince a lot of people that class wrestling isnt working. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wrestling Scholar Posted February 28, 2014 Share Posted February 28, 2014 The only stat we need to know is if Madtownxwrestler will attend the event. I think when making decisions with the IHSAA they need to get his approval. He is very integral to our sport and if he is not in attendance we cannot go on. That would be bad to not have state finals, but does he have so much power to boycott the whole wrestling season in Indiana as he recommended. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Madtownxwrestler Posted February 28, 2014 Share Posted February 28, 2014 MadtownX- I see the point or your argument. So lets look at this from a real statistical method. I took the average number of schools per state with class wrestling and without class wrestling . Here's the results. 8 states with no class wrestling = 221 schools per state 41 states without class wrestling = 194 schools per state So heres the conclusion using your data and statisitics that you find important. Wouldnt want to change the facts as you hate that. States with class wrestling have less schools on average but produce more all-americans. States with class wrestling have more schools on average butl produce less All-Americans. Boom!! You're just lost the debate again and were using your selected stat and data. If you keep going, your going to convince a lot of people that class wrestling isnt working. once again you are just using numbers vs numbers if you had a group of 1000 people and you split them into two groups one group of 100 people and one group of 900 people the numbers will always favor the group that is larger (you then say that shows we need classes) but once again that is the way it should fall if they had a chess tournament the final 10 guys would be 9 from the large group and 1 from the small which would be comparable to the size of the group not unfair Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Madtownxwrestler Posted February 28, 2014 Share Posted February 28, 2014 That would be bad to not have state finals, but does he have so much power to boycott the whole wrestling season in Indiana as he recommended. i dont need to boycott you do things are just as i like them im not trying to change things for the worse like you are Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fabio Jr. Posted February 28, 2014 Share Posted February 28, 2014 what else would numbers be compared against? Colors? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Madtownxwrestler Posted February 28, 2014 Share Posted February 28, 2014 what else would numbers be compared against? Colors? i thought it was simple but its hard to explain to people that cant or dont want to understand simple math. and y2 where are the numbers for the state qualifiers by student enrollment you said you would get? using 308 teams in the numbers doesnt work because we are talking about classing an individual sport Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bog190 Posted February 28, 2014 Share Posted February 28, 2014 i thought it was simple but its hard to explain to people that cant or dont want to understand simple math. and y2 where are the numbers for the state qualifiers by student enrollment you said you would get? using 308 teams in the numbers doesnt work because we are talking about classing an individual sport Yes Madtown, it's us that don't understand. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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