pantherfan78 Posted December 13, 2012 Share Posted December 13, 2012 I was talking to the father of a JV wrestler recently and he went on and on about why his son wasn't getting a fair shot at the varsity spot because he presumed the coach just "doesn't like Timmy". I have seen Timmy and the young man wrestling in the Varsity spot currently, and honestly unless the varsity kid was kidnapped, Timmy would not have much of a shot. It's life, and it is the way it is. The oddest part of all is the weight class just below Timmy's current weight class is wide open. The team literally forfeits that weight. According to Timmy Senior his son is only 3 pounds above that the lower weight class anyway! So here is the question, obviously Timmy Sr is not dealing with the reality of things, but how does a coach deal with the parents CONSTANTLY droning on about their kid being slighted when it is obvious the coaches are doing what is best for the team and the kid/parents are holding themselves back? In the 15 minutes this particular parent complained to me, I wanted to kick him in the pills! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Y2CJ41 Posted December 13, 2012 Share Posted December 13, 2012 Most parents will just gripe in the stands and never say anything to the coach. That way they are always right and the coach is always to blame when in reality if he heard what really goes on in the practice room his hopes and dreams would be shattered. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ElectricEye Posted December 13, 2012 Share Posted December 13, 2012 I fell your pain. When I coached many years ago it was the same, but different. In Wisconsin in the 70's we had a group of parents that remembered what it was like to have to work for things. Nothing was given to them, they earned it through hard work and effort. Even then it was a sure thing. Every coach has their detractors. Conspiracy theorists are nothing new. Assumed agendas, some that are boarder line slander, and out right crazy talk are all apart of coaching to one extent or another. It was one of the toughest things I had to contend with in the years I coached. The situation you described is not as unusual as you may want to think. Most coaches could write their own book on stupid things parents say to them. If Timmy Sr insisted on pushing it, I would employ an old tactic I was given by one of my coaches decades ago. I would tell the parent that I would wrestle to two boys off - IF Timmy Sr could be there to watch - AND the loser drops to fill the open spot in the line up. If Sr agrees then you set it up and make it happen. Timmy Jr will get pasted, and end up cutting that 3 pounds of baby fat he likely could stand to lose anyway. One word of caution! Mrs Timmy Sr will most likely come knocking on your door once she finds out about what is going on! You are on your own with her... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Spencer Posted December 13, 2012 Share Posted December 13, 2012 The kid may not be allowed to lose that last 3 pounds for the lower weight class. The new weight management system dictates the lowest weight class each kid can "cut' to. Have a wrestle-off and whoever wins gets the spot. That's what we do. And we also, for the most part, have closed practices due to our room not being very large and from my experience it is best for the parents to not be in practice. I have modified this post as it really sounded harsh when I went back and read it. Our parents are very supportive of our kids and they will do anything for the coaching staff and the team. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aoberlin Posted December 13, 2012 Share Posted December 13, 2012 One word of caution! Mrs Timmy Sr will most likely come knocking on your door once she finds out about what is going on! You are on your own with her... LOL Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pantherfan78 Posted December 13, 2012 Author Share Posted December 13, 2012 Most parents will just gripe in the stands and never say anything to the coach. That way they are always right and the coach is always to blame when in reality if he heard what really goes on in the practice room his hopes and dreams would be shattered. I don't know how you manage it...I have no problems with the kids and the crazy stuff they pull, but the parents would drive me over the edge. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pantherfan78 Posted December 13, 2012 Author Share Posted December 13, 2012 I fell your pain. When I coached many years ago it was the same, but different. In Wisconsin in the 70's we had a group of parents that remembered what it was like to have to work for things. Nothing was given to them, they earned it through hard work and effort. Even then it was a sure thing. Every coach has their detractors. Conspiracy theorists are nothing new. Assumed agendas, some that are boarder line slander, and out right crazy talk are all apart of coaching to one extent or another. It was one of the toughest things I had to contend with in the years I coached. The situation you described is not as unusual as you may want to think. Most coaches could write their own book on stupid things parents say to them. If Timmy Sr insisted on pushing it, I would employ an old tactic I was given by one of my coaches decades ago. I would tell the parent that I would wrestle to two boys off - IF Timmy Sr could be there to watch - AND the loser drops to fill the open spot in the line up. If Sr agrees then you set it up and make it happen. Timmy Jr will get pasted, and end up cutting that 3 pounds of baby fat he likely could stand to lose anyway. One word of caution! Mrs Timmy Sr will most likely come knocking on your door once she finds out about what is going on! You are on your own with her... Sage advice! I have no problem in believing the young man could lose the 3 pounds and stay within the program. From what I understand he has actually gained weight since conditioning started (?!?!?!?!?!?!?!). We are not dealing with a Mr Universe type of physical specimen here. In my day, cutting weight was just a part of the sport and you did what best served the team. Now they have protections in place (a good thing in my book) but we often see kids who pull on a singlet and we are presented with what appears to be a "Pig In A Blanket" in your schools colors. I like the idea of having Timmy Sr witness the wrestle off if he is convinced on the idea of favoritism against his son. I assume coaches have various feelings on that and I can understand the pro's and cons. But to shut Mr Olympia up it maybe worth just one exception.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WarriorDad Posted December 13, 2012 Share Posted December 13, 2012 As a father of a wrestler I am not sure it is totally up to the coach to deal with the situation. My son was is this spot his Freshman and Soph year. We talked about it his Freshman year because he really wanted to wrestle varsity; i told him he needed to work on his skills and JV was his place. His Soph year season started and they had first wrestle offs and he lost; came home not very happy but we talked and he was 5lbs above the next weight class. I asked what he thought his chances below were he said good; then I told him to go ask the coach about it and if he wanted to cut weight and go do then do it but we would be smart about it. He did and wrestled the rest of the season varsity at that weight. Now as a senior he has his class; there is a Soph in the same weight class than is just buying his time till my son graduates and he is gaining some good practice by working with my son. So these situations to me are up to the coach, wrestler and parents to work togather on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tskin Posted December 13, 2012 Share Posted December 13, 2012 How do you have this problem in Wrestling??? Its easiest sport to deal with. We have wrestle offs two days before most meets. Who ever wins is varsity. Simple as that! If a kid goes undefeated at a multi team event then he cant be challanged for spot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pantherfan78 Posted December 13, 2012 Author Share Posted December 13, 2012 As a father of a wrestler I am not sure it is totally up to the coach to deal with the situation. My son was is this spot his Freshman and Soph year. We talked about it his Freshman year because he really wanted to wrestle varsity; i told him he needed to work on his skills and JV was his place. His Soph year season started and they had first wrestle offs and he lost; came home not very happy but we talked and he was 5lbs above the next weight class. I asked what he thought his chances below were he said good; then I told him to go ask the coach about it and if he wanted to cut weight and go do then do it but we would be smart about it. He did and wrestled the rest of the season varsity at that weight. Now as a senior he has his class; there is a Soph in the same weight class than is just buying his time till my son graduates and he is gaining some good practice by working with my son. So these situations to me are up to the coach, wrestler and parents to work togather on. Excellent points. From my point of view, it is the Coaches team first. He is contracted to the school therefore he has the say. That "say" should be the product of clear conversations between the principle players, as you listed them. I will add this though, the parents should focus on the one point that directly impacts their influence and concern for their child and that is the cutting of weight. The coach knows better who has the skill set he wants in each weight class and what each kids path to success looks like. The kids do have a huge responsibility to do what is the most difficult of all most of the time and that is to do what is best for the team and not so much what you wish for. Parents can have a tendency of spreading ill feelings through out a program if they lose sight of the goal based on their personal feelings about a coach or even kids or other parents. I have seen it happen many times and it is shameful. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pantherfan78 Posted December 13, 2012 Author Share Posted December 13, 2012 How do you have this problem in Wrestling??? Its easiest sport to deal with. We have wrestle offs two days before most meets. Who ever wins is varsity. Simple as that! If a kid goes undefeated at a multi team event then he cant be challanged for spot. The problem is actually the parents. I think the kids understand the "pecking order" and the process used to set the varsity roster. Parents tend to get wrapped up in the "Why is Timmy Jr not out there?" mode and not looking at the facts. Timmy Jr is JV behind a kid that has made it to the State Tourney 3 years in a row and basically owns every kid in the room. Timmy Jr is also 3 pounds above the next weight class and we could use someone there who is motivated to perform. It's a Win Win Win ... But Timmy Sr wants to make it out to be a huge issue of personalities and slights with the coaches and program in general. I was honestly ready to belt the guy for being such a cry baby. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1894life Posted December 13, 2012 Share Posted December 13, 2012 wrestle off through out the season. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ElectricEye Posted December 13, 2012 Share Posted December 13, 2012 The problem is actually the parents. I think the kids understand the "pecking order" and the process used to set the varsity roster. Parents tend to get wrapped up in the "Why is Timmy Jr not out there?" mode and not looking at the facts. Timmy Jr is JV behind a kid that has made it to the State Tourney 3 years in a row and basically owns every kid in the room. Timmy Jr is also 3 pounds above the next weight class and we could use someone there who is motivated to perform. It's a Win Win Win ... But Timmy Sr wants to make it out to be a huge issue of personalities and slights with the coaches and program in general. I was honestly ready to belt the guy for being such a cry baby. Chances are Timmy Sr was a basketball bench warmer in school. They never seem to understand out sport at all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KarlHungus Posted December 13, 2012 Share Posted December 13, 2012 Everybody knows that it's the parents job to ruin a kids life... I'm sure Timmy loves being under the microscope... "Thanks Dad!" This story would read much better if Jimmy was the name used instead of Timmy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fabio Jr. Posted December 13, 2012 Share Posted December 13, 2012 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
charger.dad Posted December 13, 2012 Share Posted December 13, 2012 has the coach suggested that timmy drop the 3 and take over the lower weight class?......that would seem like the logical thing to do from both ends......timmy gets to wrestle and they fill a vacant spot......and dad is happy! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Y2CJ41 Posted December 13, 2012 Share Posted December 13, 2012 I don't know how you manage it...I have no problems with the kids and the crazy stuff they pull, but the parents would drive me over the edge. That is why I always say my dream coaching job is at an orphanage. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Miller News Posted December 13, 2012 Share Posted December 13, 2012 That is why I always say my dream coaching job is at an orphanage. The milk just shot out my nose on that one!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KarlHungus Posted December 13, 2012 Share Posted December 13, 2012 That is why I always say my dream coaching job is at an orphanage. Or Howe Military? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hornet Coach Posted December 13, 2012 Share Posted December 13, 2012 has the coach suggested that timmy drop the 3 and take over the lower weight class?......that would seem like the logical thing to do from both ends......timmy gets to wrestle and they fill a vacant spot......and dad is happy! It doesn't matter what the coach does, some Dads will not be happy. Some people just want something to complain about. It comes with the territory. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aoberlin Posted December 13, 2012 Share Posted December 13, 2012 Or Howe Military? Ouch Karl. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Never Quit Posted December 13, 2012 Share Posted December 13, 2012 We moved to a new school a couple years back due to a job change. The former school had an open room policy where parents could come in the room at the end of practice to pick their wrestler up and opened the first wrestle-off of the season to parents and other spectators. That program had a lot of support from parents at all age levels and the parents in the stands were very educated about the sport and the team has been very successful as a team and individually at all age levels, and is a mid-sized school. This program had a distinct family feel about it and always had 5 to 6 coaches in the room which allowed the coaches to work with the kids by weight ranges rather than just have everyone do the same things. The new school is very closed off from the parents other than a brief parents meeting at the beginning of the season and they absolutely do not allow anyone in the room. This program has a hard time getting parents to volunteer for anything, even just to run a clock. They have a nearly non-existent youth program and is a much larger school and only has three coaches where every kid is coached to do the same thing from 106 to 285. They have little to no post season success and worst of all, the parents in the stands are very uneducated about the sport and often complain about the coaches and what they only can see on the mat. I'm not saying every program should be just like the first program, but I believe an engaged parent is often more helpful and supportive of the coaches. If anyone says that it does not matter what the parents think then they are missing an opportunity to make their program stronger. I'm not saying Timmy's dad should be given free run of the room but maybe he just needs to be engaged. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
charger.dad Posted December 13, 2012 Share Posted December 13, 2012 We moved to a new school a couple years back due to a job change. The former school had an open room policy where parents could come in the room at the end of practice to pick their wrestler up and opened the first wrestle-off of the season to parents and other spectators. That program had a lot of support from parents at all age levels and the parents in the stands were very educated about the sport and the team has been very successful as a team and individually at all age levels, and is a mid-sized school. This program had a distinct family feel about it and always had 5 to 6 coaches in the room which allowed the coaches to work with the kids by weight ranges rather than just have everyone do the same things. The new school is very closed off from the parents other than a brief parents meeting at the beginning of the season and they absolutely do not allow anyone in the room. This program has a hard time getting parents to volunteer for anything, even just to run a clock. They have a nearly non-existent youth program and is a much larger school and only has three coaches where every kid is coached to do the same thing from 106 to 285. They have little to no post season success and worst of all, the parents in the stands are very uneducated about the sport and often complain about the coaches and what they only can see on the mat. I'm not saying every program should be just like the first program, but I believe an engaged parent is often more helpful and supportive of the coaches. If anyone says that it does not matter what the parents think then they are missing an opportunity to make their program stronger. I'm not saying Timmy's dad should be given free run of the room but maybe he just needs to be engaged. the first school you talk of is in my opinion the way it works best.......look at coach harpers program at penn......he is very welcoming of parents and has the best parent support system i have ever seen......and that goes from the kids programs up to the high school.....you gotta have the moms and dads support to haul kids around and keep the momentum up during off season..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fabio Jr. Posted December 13, 2012 Share Posted December 13, 2012 Parent involvement is crucial to apoint but they need to buy in to the programs "system" and they have to trust the coaches reasoning behind their decisions Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ElectricEye Posted December 13, 2012 Share Posted December 13, 2012 This story would read much better if Jimmy was the name used instead of Timmy. The name probably changes every year, but the parent and the kids remain the same (sort). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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