phscoach Posted January 19, 2012 Share Posted January 19, 2012 This can settle an argument we are having. Wrestler A and B have wrestled 3 times. A wins Match 1 and Match 2. B wins Match 3. At a conference seeding meeting, Coach A argues that they are 2-1 head to head so A has the seed. Coach B argues it's the last match that counts so B gets the seed. Which one is correct officially? Cite your source if possible. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Y2CJ41 Posted January 19, 2012 Share Posted January 19, 2012 Head to head competition; (The wrestler with the most head to head wins gets the seed. If they have beaten each other an equal number of times, then the winner of the last match gets the seed.); Winter Bulletin http://www.ihsaa.org/dnn/Portals/0/Flip%20Book/Winter_Bulletin/fscommand/Winter.pdf Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Muckman_1999 Posted January 19, 2012 Share Posted January 19, 2012 How about this seeding question? Wrestler A beats Wrestler B Wrestler C beats wrestler A Wrestler B has not wrestled Wrestler C Wrestler B is the defending champion of sectional Does Wrestler C automatically get the number 1 seed because he beat A and A beat B?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TripleB Posted January 19, 2012 Share Posted January 19, 2012 Yes, A would be a common opponent between B and C Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Muckman_1999 Posted January 19, 2012 Share Posted January 19, 2012 Ok That makes sense if there is one common opponent, what happens if there more than one common opponent? In other words Wrestler B has beat a different wrestler who is not even in the sectional that previously beat wrestler C? If you go to the third category of a defending champion that would place wrestler B ahead of A and C even though he lost to Wrestler A? Is this correct? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Y2CJ41 Posted January 19, 2012 Share Posted January 19, 2012 The criteria is record against common opponents. It does not matter if the common opponents are in the same sectional or not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phscoach Posted January 19, 2012 Author Share Posted January 19, 2012 Thank you for the reply. I win! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Muckman_1999 Posted January 19, 2012 Share Posted January 19, 2012 I have never been to one of these seedings meeting but i would guess there are a lot of problems when you have situation like this with three wrestlers. A is a ahead of B(based on 1st criteria head to head) who is ahead of C(based on third criteria of sectional championship) who is ahead of A (based on 1st criteria which is head to head) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MattM Posted January 19, 2012 Share Posted January 19, 2012 One important step to remember in the seeding process is once a wrestler has been seeded the criteria will start over again for the remaining wrestlers. Thus one argument after going through several criteria may end up resulting in A, then B, then C being the order of determining #1 seed. But once A is seeded and we start the process over another earlier criteria may then be used to determin that C jumps head of B for the #2 spot. Moving onto the #2 spot and eliminating A as #1 from the argument may even add the D or even E wrestler into the equasion which adds another variable to consider. It works better with an actual sample situation, but I don't have one at this time. This doesn't happen often, but usually once a seed meeting you run into this senerio. If it happens a few times this usually leads to a long night at the seeding meeting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Muckman_1999 Posted January 19, 2012 Share Posted January 19, 2012 Good point about a long night at the seeding!! I am not sure there is any objective way to solve this type of dispute based on the criteria in order of importance when there are multiple wrestlers using the criteria to make legit claims against the others. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AC Computer Posted January 19, 2012 Share Posted January 19, 2012 Also, the sectional champion criteria only applies if he was champion in the same weight class last year. If he changed weights it has no bearing on seeding. Since most of the weights changed this year the IHSAA is using the weight class number rather than actual weight, i.e. 106 = 103 from last year, 113 = 112, etc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Y2CJ41 Posted January 19, 2012 Share Posted January 19, 2012 You also rely on coaches having their statistics up to date and not "forgetting" certain losses that will certainly disqualify their wrestler from a seed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southern mole Posted January 19, 2012 Share Posted January 19, 2012 I have a seeding question. 8 man bracket. 3 wrestlers, 2 FF and 3 Byes. Can the 2 FF be on the same side or do they have to be opposite? thanks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jsmth7736 Posted January 19, 2012 Share Posted January 19, 2012 Waiting for someone to "seat" a wrestler at the "seating" meeting, lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MattM Posted January 19, 2012 Share Posted January 19, 2012 I have a seeding question. 8 man bracket. 3 wrestlers, 2 FF and 3 Byes. Can the 2 FF be on the same side or do they have to be opposite? thanks The brackets are suppose to be arranged (its in the seeding wording in some way), so actual wrestlers finish ahead of empty spots. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KarlHungus Posted January 19, 2012 Share Posted January 19, 2012 Adrian Empty had a nasty lat drop back in the day Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chambers Posted January 19, 2012 Share Posted January 19, 2012 The brackets are suppose to be arranged (its in the seeding wording in some way), so actual wrestlers finish ahead of empty spots. With only 3 wrestlers in a 8 man bracket we have to assume that those 3 are seeded 1-3 on the bracket so there is no way they would not place ahead of a FF. The rules state that a bye is only possible in the first rounds of the championship and consolation brackets (rule 10-3.2). It is impossible for the wrestlers to get two byes in this case. No matter what happens the #1 seed will have a FF in round 2. By rule the FF's could be on the same side. I think the fairest way would be to put on FF in the 4th seed place on the bracket and the other FF on the next line up. That way the two FF's meet in the first round and the three wrestlers all get a bye. No matter where you place the FF's the 1st seed will have a FF in round 2. and the 2nd and 3rd seeds will wrestle each other in round 2. That way the points are even coming out of the first round. If you put a FF against a wrestler in the first round he is going to have 4 team points more than the other two. Or if you put both FF's against wrestlers in the 1st round then two of them will have 4 points over the 3rd guy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
XCard Posted January 21, 2012 Share Posted January 21, 2012 I have a seeding question. 8 man bracket. 3 wrestlers, 2 FF and 3 Byes. Can the 2 FF be on the same side or do they have to be opposite? thanks Is there any Sectionals that do not have at least 8 teams? Assuming they are 8 teams in the Sectional, there would be no byes. All other teams that do not have a wrestler would be considered forfeits and drawn by lot after the top 6 seeds are determined. At least this is how I believe it is supposed to go. I am sure someone will correct me if I am wrong. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chambers Posted January 21, 2012 Share Posted January 21, 2012 Is there any Sectionals that do not have at least 8 teams? Assuming they are 8 teams in the Sectional, there would be no byes. All other teams that do not have a wrestler would be considered forfeits and drawn by lot after the top 6 seeds are determined. At lease this is how I believe it is supposed to go. I am sure someone will correct me if I am wrong. All sectionals should have 8 or more teams. This week is when most conferences have their tournaments. I think he was asking about something that came up for a conference tournament. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MattM Posted January 21, 2012 Share Posted January 21, 2012 Is there any Sectionals that do not have at least 8 teams? Assuming they are 8 teams in the Sectional, there would be no byes. All other teams that do not have a wrestler would be considered forfeits and drawn by lot after the top 6 seeds are determined. At lease this is how I believe it is supposed to go. I am sure someone will correct me if I am wrong. That would be correct for a 8 team event. However, I believe all other none seeded wrestlers are placed in the bracket followed by forfeits being placed. If you have more than 8 teams in your sectional, which some do, they you must expand out to 16 man bracket. That would cause several opening round bye's and a few "pig-tail" matchup's to occur. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
XCard Posted January 21, 2012 Share Posted January 21, 2012 That would be correct for a 8 team event. However, I believe all other none seeded wrestlers are placed in the bracket followed by forfeits being placed. If you have more than 8 teams in your sectional, which some do, they you must expand out to 16 man bracket. That would cause several opening round bye's and a few "pig-tail" matchup's to occur. A whole lot of opening round forfeits in my opinion at some with more than 8 teams! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chambers Posted January 21, 2012 Share Posted January 21, 2012 That would be correct for a 8 team event. However, I believe all other none seeded wrestlers are placed in the bracket followed by forfeits being placed. If you have more than 8 teams in your sectional, which some do, they you must expand out to 16 man bracket. That would cause several opening round bye's and a few "pig-tail" matchup's to occur. no Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MattM Posted January 21, 2012 Share Posted January 21, 2012 A whole lot of opening round forfeits in my opinion at some with more than 8 teams! In a larger than 8 team sectional since a 16 line bracket is used it can't technically be called a forfeit since their is no team placed in that sport to forfeit the weight. It would just be a bye in that case. Though either way its the same result of a wrestler advances to the next round. no No to what? That doesn't give me much to go off of. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chambers Posted January 21, 2012 Share Posted January 21, 2012 In a larger than 8 team sectional since a 16 line bracket is used it can't technically be called a forfeit since their is no team placed in that sport to forfeit the weight. It would just be a bye in that case. Though either way its the same result of a wrestler advances to the next round. No to what? That doesn't give me much to go off of. This part "However, I believe all other none seeded wrestlers are placed in the bracket followed by forfeits being placed." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Y2CJ41 Posted January 21, 2012 Share Posted January 21, 2012 This part "However, I believe all other none seeded wrestlers are placed in the bracket followed by forfeits being placed." Actually at least two wrestlers will be put into the bracket first to complete the 8 man bracket before forfeits are put into the bracket. That way the #1 or #2 seed doesn't have a forfeit into the semi-finals. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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