MadHtsWrestler Posted January 11, 2012 Share Posted January 11, 2012 If a wrestler who actually weighs 132 lbs. but purposely weighs in at the 138 weight class to give the appearance of wrestling at the 138 weight class, and is even presented at the dual meet "walk over" as planning to wrestle 138, then be legally allowed to drop down at that dual meet and wrestle 132? To me it doesn't seem like it should be "legal" to pull a tactical move like this in order to get a scoring advantage, but I saw it happen. IS IT LEGAL? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom Riddle Posted January 11, 2012 Share Posted January 11, 2012 yes Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MattM Posted January 11, 2012 Share Posted January 11, 2012 If you weight within the boundaries a weight class then you are eligible to wrestle at that weight. This line up adjustment can be made at the scores table prior to the start of them match and they should verify those wrestling so fit into the appropriate weight classes. I'm not sure I would call it deseptive since it is a viable option according to the rules and the other coach may have the same opportunity too. However, it is definitly a stratigic move to hopefully help improve your teams chances in a dual situation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chambers Posted January 11, 2012 Share Posted January 11, 2012 Tom Riddle and MattM, if it happenned as MadHtsWrestler said then it is not legal according to Rule 4, Section 5, Art. 3 which says "When all wrestlers for a weight class have had an opportunity to weigh in and the next class is called, that weight class is closed." Now the question I have for MadHtsWrestler is how sure are you that the other team did not weigh in two wrestlers at 132 before that class was closed and 138 was called? The part where he was presented at the dual meet "walk over" as planning to wrestle 138 has nothing to do with what weight he can or cannot wrestle. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
busstogate Posted January 11, 2012 Share Posted January 11, 2012 If I recall correctly from about three years ago, two northern Indiana teams had this situation come up at a dual, in which a coach tried to wrestle his guy down a weight class after he was written down at weigh-ins at the next higher class. Bobby Cox was actually called during the meet and apparently the wrestler was not allowed to make the move. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maligned Posted January 11, 2012 Share Posted January 11, 2012 As Chambers said, if it happened as is claimed, it was absolutely illegal. If, however, he weighed in with the 132's but was simply written on the lineup and introduced at 138, there is no problem. Once the 132's have finished weighing in and 138 is called, though, no one who weighs in after can wrestle below 138. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
charger.dad Posted January 11, 2012 Share Posted January 11, 2012 If I recall correctly from about three years ago, two northern Indiana teams had this situation come up at a dual, in which a coach tried to wrestle his guy down a weight class after he was written down at weigh-ins at the next higher class. Bobby Cox was actually called during the meet and apparently the wrestler was not allowed to make the move. you are correct....this exact thing happened 2 years ago at the elkhart memorial - goshen match.....it held the match up for probably 45 minutes while the coaches argued, the official listened, they looked at the rule book and then finally called cox to get it straightened out!....add to that 2 wrestlers going off the mat knocking over the electronic score board and one coach claiming it was intentional by the opposing wrestler....fans were arguing in the stands.....one wrestler was taken to the hospital.....the wrestlers were all pumped up and testosterone was in the air......the tension was high because the winner would claim the NLC title......i don't ever recall a dual meet taking that long.....it was an exciting evening of wrestling.....and yes it was deemed illegal to do that....... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MattM Posted January 11, 2012 Share Posted January 11, 2012 Tom Riddle and MattM, if it happenned as MadHtsWrestler said then it is not legal according to Rule 4, Section 5, Art. 3 which says "When all wrestlers for a weight class have had an opportunity to weigh in and the next class is called, that weight class is closed." Now the question I have for MadHtsWrestler is how sure are you that the other team did not weigh in two wrestlers at 132 before that class was closed and 138 was called? The part where he was presented at the dual meet "walk over" as planning to wrestle 138 has nothing to do with what weight he can or cannot wrestle. Chambers, You are correct about weighing-in at the appropriate weight class that you are declaring yourself eligable to compete in. Thats is what I ment by "within the boundaries of the weight class," Thanks for adding a little more clarification to that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MadHtsWrestler Posted January 11, 2012 Author Share Posted January 11, 2012 Tom Riddle and MattM, if it happenned as MadHtsWrestler said then it is not legal according to Rule 4, Section 5, Art. 3 which says "When all wrestlers for a weight class have had an opportunity to weigh in and the next class is called, that weight class is closed." Now the question I have for MadHtsWrestler is how sure are you that the other team did not weigh in two wrestlers at 132 before that class was closed and 138 was called? The part where he was presented at the dual meet "walk over" as planning to wrestle 138 has nothing to do with what weight he can or cannot wrestle. The situation is a real & recent situation but I have used hypothetical weight classes to keep actual wrestler's names and schools out of the dialogue. The team that dropped down one of their weighed in "138 lb" wrestlers to the lower "132" weight class didn't weigh-in any body at the next lower "132" weight class. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charger wrestling dad Posted January 11, 2012 Share Posted January 11, 2012 you are correct....this exact thing happened 2 years ago at the elkhart memorial - goshen match.....it held the match up for probably 45 minutes while the coaches argued, the official listened, they looked at the rule book and then finally called cox to get it straightened out!....add to that 2 wrestlers going off the mat knocking over the electronic score board and one coach claiming it was intentional by the opposing wrestler....fans were arguing in the stands.....one wrestler was taken to the hospital.....the wrestlers were all pumped up and testosterone was in the air......the tension was high because the winner would claim the NLC title......i don't ever recall a dual meet taking that long.....it was an exciting evening of wrestling.....and yes it was deemed illegal to do that....... The same school tried it the following year, they tried to wrestle one of the coaches kids up to go around our best wrestler. The one kid was supposed to weigh in at the lower weight but did not. After the Memorial coach caught it, and protested it, the ref again ruled against the other school. This time they only argued about 10 min before the Memorial coach said go ahead and wrestle the illegal wrestler. The illegal wrestler got stuck quickly. Then the coaches boy was getting ready to go on the mat. Last thing the coach said was "you have to pin". Well the coaches son won but by a 3-1 score. And they still lost the match. I spoke to the ref afterwards he stated that the call a weight then announce it is being closed and then call the next weight class. If you dont weigh in at the lower weight you can't wrestle down however you can wrestle up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jimtown 138 Posted January 11, 2012 Share Posted January 11, 2012 Hummmmm, can't Goshen and Memorial just get along??? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
charger.dad Posted January 11, 2012 Share Posted January 11, 2012 Hummmmm, can't Goshen and Memorial just get along??? why would we possibly want to do that?.......watch it i'll give you a "boo" point........lol....... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maligned Posted January 11, 2012 Share Posted January 11, 2012 The situation is a real & recent situation but I have used hypothetical weight classes to keep actual wrestler's names and schools out of the dialogue. The team that dropped down one of their weighed in "138 lb" wrestlers to the lower "132" weight class didn't weigh-in any body at the next lower "132" weight class. As others have said, you have to weigh in when the weight class is called. Once it's finished and the next is called, you cannot wrestle at a lower weight class--no matter what you weigh in at. If these situations being described really happened, the officials screwed up in not enforcing the rules properly, plain and simple. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rhayes Posted January 11, 2012 Share Posted January 11, 2012 As others have said, you have to weigh in when the weight class is called. Once it's finished and the next is called, you cannot wrestle at a lower weight class--no matter what you weigh in at. If these situations being described really happened, the officials screwed up in not enforcing the rules properly, plain and simple.[/color] The above is not accurate. It is not the official's job to determine who can wrestle where. We weigh them in, we don't keep the weigh in sheets in our pockets and check each wrestler that comes out. That is the job of whoever is in charge of the meet, usually tourney director or AD. We weigh in dozens of wrestlers, how can we possibly remember who weighed in where? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ssloco Posted January 11, 2012 Share Posted January 11, 2012 Then the question is can that wrestler bump up to wrestle 145? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charger wrestling dad Posted January 11, 2012 Share Posted January 11, 2012 Then the question is can that wrestler bump up to wrestle 145? Yes, you can go up becuase you clearly met the weight requirement. As for the individual who said it is no the refs responsibility I agree, coaches are there for weigh ins and they need to keep or their appointed person of who weighed in where. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grecoref Posted January 11, 2012 Share Posted January 11, 2012 Yes, you can go up becuase you clearly met the weight requirement. As for the individual who said it is no the refs responsibility I agree, coaches are there for weigh ins and they need to keep or their appointed person of who weighed in where. He could only wrestle 145 if he weighed 132.1 or more.....even though he weighed in with the 138 pund class. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MattM Posted January 11, 2012 Share Posted January 11, 2012 Then the question is can that wrestler bump up to wrestle 145? You are allowed to compete within the weight class your weigh-in weight qualifies you for and the one above it. To wrestle 145 the wrestler would need to weight in at 132.1. That would put him in the 138 weight range which also allows him to compete in the next weight class above which is 145. Obviously with te two pound allowance in place the weight requirement have also all shifted two pounds higher. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maligned Posted January 11, 2012 Share Posted January 11, 2012 As others have said, you have to weigh in when the weight class is called. Once it's finished and the next is called, you cannot wrestle at a lower weight class--no matter what you weigh in at. If these situations being described really happened, the officials screwed up in not enforcing the rules properly, plain and simple.[/color] The above is not accurate. It is not the official's job to determine who can wrestle where. We weigh them in, we don't keep the weigh in sheets in our pockets and check each wrestler that comes out. That is the job of whoever is in charge of the meet, usually tourney director or AD. We weigh in dozens of wrestlers, how can we possibly remember who weighed in where? I meant that based on the specific scenario, in which the officials are claimed (claimed being the key word) to have been presented with the facts and then allowed the ineligible wrestler to wrestler, the officials messed up if things really happened this way. Obviously officials aren't responsible to track all wrestlers' activities at an event. I'm sorry I wasn't clear. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
awood2 Posted January 12, 2012 Share Posted January 12, 2012 you are correct....this exact thing happened 2 years ago at the elkhart memorial - goshen match.....it held the match up for probably 45 minutes while the coaches argued, the official listened, they looked at the rule book and then finally called cox to get it straightened out!....add to that 2 wrestlers going off the mat knocking over the electronic score board and one coach claiming it was intentional by the opposing wrestler....fans were arguing in the stands.....one wrestler was taken to the hospital.....the wrestlers were all pumped up and testosterone was in the air......the tension was high because the winner would claim the NLC title......i don't ever recall a dual meet taking that long.....it was an exciting evening of wrestling.....and yes it was deemed illegal to do that....... Absolutely, one of the most exciting wrestling duals I have ever seen. Every second of that dual was contested from weigh-ins to the right-of-way leaving the parking lot. The decision was made to stop the match and call Bobby Cox because the match would decide a conference title, the Cha-cha-chargers did win... (Jimtown 138, be sure to mention that when you reference this dual in the future). I have to make mention of the official, Mark Miller of Rochester, he did an outstanding job calling a very intense match with a variety of odd situations that will likely never happen on a mat in Indiana again. Coach Pickard, Goshen, always has his team ready to go and goes to bat for every call. I have not missed this matchup since, and I don't plan to! Word to the wise, sit right behind the scorer's table and wear red. It's the only way to stay nuetral and out of the action! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charger wrestling dad Posted January 12, 2012 Share Posted January 12, 2012 Absolutely, one of the most exciting wrestling duals I have ever seen. Every second of that dual was contested from weigh-ins to the right-of-way leaving the parking lot. The decision was made to stop the match and call Bobby Cox because the match would decide a conference title, the Cha-cha-chargers did win... (Jimtown 138, be sure to mention that when you reference this dual in the future). I have to make mention of the official, Mark Miller of Rochester, he did an outstanding job calling a very intense match with a variety of odd situations that will likely never happen on a mat in Indiana again. Coach Pickard, Goshen, always has his team ready to go and goes to bat for every call. I have not missed this matchup since, and I don't plan to! Word to the wise, sit right behind the scorer's table and wear red. It's the only way to stay nuetral and out of the action! Chicken stand for one or the other, makes it more fun. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
awood2 Posted January 12, 2012 Share Posted January 12, 2012 As an ex-referee, and a someone who lives right on the line between Elkhart, Concord, Middlebury, and Goshen schools, I try my best to lay low when in arms reach of fans. I am a bigger wrestling fan, than I am a fan of one team or another (I am a Charger alum, though). As my soon-to-be father-in-law says, "I am already in a committed relationship with my wife, I can't be in a relationship with a team too." I have always said that I will watch championship anything. If they are giving away a trophy for a tic-tac-toe tournament I will show up for the final round Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charger wrestling dad Posted January 12, 2012 Share Posted January 12, 2012 As an ex-referee, and a someone who lives right on the line between Elkhart, Concord, Middlebury, and Goshen schools, I try my best to lay low when in arms reach of fans. I am a bigger wrestling fan, than I am a fan of one team or another (I am a Charger alum, though). As my soon-to-be father-in-law says, "I am already in a committed relationship with my wife, I can't be in a relationship with a team too." I have always said that I will watch championship anything. If they are giving away a trophy for a tic-tac-toe tournament I will show up for the final round I knew that I remember watching you wrestle in high school and ref, you weren't too bad. Just giving you a hard time. See you at the Sectionals. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MadHtsWrestler Posted January 12, 2012 Author Share Posted January 12, 2012 As others have said, you have to weigh in when the weight class is called. Once it's finished and the next is called, you cannot wrestle at a lower weight class--no matter what you weigh in at. If these situations being described really happened, the officials screwed up in not enforcing the rules properly, plain and simple.[/color] The above is not accurate. It is not the official's job to determine who can wrestle where. We weigh them in, we don't keep the weigh in sheets in our pockets and check each wrestler that comes out. That is the job of whoever is in charge of the meet, usually tourney director or AD. We weigh in dozens of wrestlers, how can we possibly remember who weighed in where? I would agree that officials cannot keep track of where everyone weighed in at, but the official in this scenario was called by the head coach to the scorer's table and made aware of the wrestler dropping down to the lower weight class than what he weighed in at. The official said it was OK because his actual weight was within the range to qualify at the lower weight. I am not sure why he interpreted the rules that way when in reality he should have been made to wrestle at the weight he weighed in at. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
charger.dad Posted January 12, 2012 Share Posted January 12, 2012 Absolutely, one of the most exciting wrestling duals I have ever seen. Every second of that dual was contested from weigh-ins to the right-of-way leaving the parking lot. The decision was made to stop the match and call Bobby Cox because the match would decide a conference title, the Cha-cha-chargers did win... (Jimtown 138, be sure to mention that when you reference this dual in the future). I have to make mention of the official, Mark Miller of Rochester, he did an outstanding job calling a very intense match with a variety of odd situations that will likely never happen on a mat in Indiana again. Coach Pickard, Goshen, always has his team ready to go and goes to bat for every call. I have not missed this matchup since, and I don't plan to! Word to the wise, sit right behind the scorer's table and wear red. It's the only way to stay nuetral and out of the action! lol.....yeah i forgot to mention the parking lot altercations!....what a crazy night.....and yes i agree, the ref did an outstanding job..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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