fwrestler Posted January 4, 2012 Share Posted January 4, 2012 Football players play different positions on the field just like wrestlers wrestle different weight classes on the mat. I'm sorry, I don't buy the "skills" being lesser for the big guys. Of course the bigger the guys are, the less nimble they'll be compared to the lightweights. But at the same time, the bigger they are, the more powerful and stronger their skillsets become vs. them same lightweights. I guess it's just what you prefer to see in your wrestling as a fan. Fans will tend to lean towards to the quicker, speedier skillset as being superior vs. the power/strength skillset. So you're saying comparing a lightweight's double leg takedown to an upperweight's double leg takedown is the same as comparing a quarterback's throw to a linebacker's tackle? That doesn't make much sense. And I think the problem is that big guys are stronger and more powerful. They never learn how to actually wrestle because they are able to fall back on their strength or size to muscle guys around the mat with poor technique. How often do you see a big guy halfass a shot and finish it just because he was strong enough to throw his opponent on the ground? That doesn't cut it in the light and middleweights. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aoberlin Posted January 4, 2012 Share Posted January 4, 2012 So you're saying comparing a lightweight's double leg takedown to an upperweight's double leg takedown is the same as comparing a quarterback's throw to a linebacker's tackle? That doesn't make much sense. And I think the problem is that big guys are stronger and more powerful. They never learn how to actually wrestle because they are able to fall back on their strength or size to muscle guys around the mat with poor technique. How often do you see a big guy halfass a shot and finish it just because he was strong enough to throw his opponent on the ground? That doesn't cut it in the light and middleweights. :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Y2CJ41 Posted January 4, 2012 Share Posted January 4, 2012 So you're saying comparing a lightweight's double leg takedown to an upperweight's double leg takedown is the same as comparing a quarterback's throw to a linebacker's tackle? That doesn't make much sense. And I think the problem is that big guys are stronger and more powerful. They never learn how to actually wrestle because they are able to fall back on their strength or size to muscle guys around the mat with poor technique. How often do you see a big guy halfass a shot and finish it just because he was strong enough to throw his opponent on the ground? That doesn't cut it in the light and middleweights. It takes different skill sets to be successful as a lighter weight than a middle or heavier weight wrestler. The same moves do NOT work the same way against different sized individual. I wrestled as a lightweight in high school and middle weight in college and the differences in the styles is tremendous. Even going from 141 to 149 and back took adjustment as the types of wrestlers and styles were different just between one weight class. At 141 the kids were quicker and at 149 the kids were a lot stronger, therefore my style had to change when I changed weight classes. If you coach the big guys the same way you coach the little guys your big guys will suffer tremendously. Very rarely will a big guy hit a standard single leg, but instead will be able to rely more on a high single leg. Heavier weights need to work more on hand fighting and setups to create the angles needed to score. The only time I would suggest anyone 220 or heavier to hit a standard double leg is if they are a freak athlete, if they aren't they will get scores on by even the weakest of opponents. I can guarantee these kids can hit a double leg in a practice drilling situation, but at match speed it is virtually useless. Wrestling with everyone in the room from 106-285, my style will change and my attacks will change. I will take less shots against the bigger guys because they will punish me more if I do not execute properly. Against the smaller guys I can take more shots and be able to finish them easier. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fwrestler Posted January 4, 2012 Share Posted January 4, 2012 It takes different skill sets to be successful as a lighter weight than a middle or heavier weight wrestler. The same moves do NOT work the same way against different sized individual. I wrestled as a lightweight in high school and middle weight in college and the differences in the styles is tremendous. Even going from 141 to 149 and back took adjustment as the types of wrestlers and styles were different just between one weight class. At 141 the kids were quicker and at 149 the kids were a lot stronger, therefore my style had to change when I changed weight classes. If you coach the big guys the same way you coach the little guys your big guys will suffer tremendously. Very rarely will a big guy hit a standard single leg, but instead will be able to rely more on a high single leg. Heavier weights need to work more on hand fighting and setups to create the angles needed to score. The only time I would suggest anyone 220 or heavier to hit a standard double leg is if they are a freak athlete, if they aren't they will get scores on by even the weakest of opponents. I can guarantee these kids can hit a double leg in a practice drilling situation, but at match speed it is virtually useless. Wrestling with everyone in the room from 106-285, my style will change and my attacks will change. I will take less shots against the bigger guys because they will punish me more if I do not execute properly. Against the smaller guys I can take more shots and be able to finish them easier. I'd say the styles and techniques of the light and middleweights are a lot more similar than those of the middle and upperweights. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jchas Posted January 4, 2012 Share Posted January 4, 2012 wrestling is a sport where men of equals size compete. If the big guys are so strong and powerful. Why can,t they lift a guy On a double leg. The reason they never shoot is because they don,t have the strength and power to do so. Being to heavy to lift does not make you powerful. It just makes you heavy. The middle and lighter weight guys are faster, stronger, and more skilled. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NickS Posted January 4, 2012 Share Posted January 4, 2012 I'd say the styles and techniques of the light and middleweights are a lot more similar than those of the middle and upperweights. I'm glad we finally agree on that styles and techniques vary depending on the weight class. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NickS Posted January 4, 2012 Share Posted January 4, 2012 If the big guys are so strong and powerful. Why can,t they lift a guy On a double leg. The reason they never shoot is because they don,t have the strength and power to do so. Being to heavy to lift does not make you powerful. It just makes you heavy. I'm not going to try to decipher this. The middle and lighter weight guys are faster, stronger, and more skilled. Umm what? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fwrestler Posted January 4, 2012 Share Posted January 4, 2012 I'm glad we finally agree on that styles and techniques vary depending on the weight class. Sure, the styles and techniques employed by upperweights are just lacking in comparison to the light and middleweights. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NickS Posted January 4, 2012 Share Posted January 4, 2012 Sure, the styles and techniques employed by upperweights are just different in comparison to the light and middleweights. Fixed your statement there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1oldwrestler Posted January 4, 2012 Share Posted January 4, 2012 I just noticed wcs145 is an asst wrestling coach and we all know y2 is as well. Now I get why you guys love upper weights so much even though neither of you wrestled an upper weight in h.s., (im guessing wcs145 wrestled 145 in h.s.). Because the head coaches of your teams make you guys wrestle the heavies in practice and you look across the room imagining how nice it would be to wrestle the littler guy! A much easier day on the job, for sure. Also, when they see someone criticizing heavies it ticks them off because those guys are their bread and butter in their job. Kinda like the gm guy hating ford. Y2 and wcs145 are just sticking up for their product. Still makes them both wrong about this subject (who has better WRESTLING skills, heavier or lighter guys? Cant even be queationed, lighter guys). But its ok to brag about the kids you wrestle in the room day in and day out. Just let them know that the neutral position doesn't always have too end with the opponent being thrown to his back. A takedown works well in that situation also. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NickS Posted January 4, 2012 Share Posted January 4, 2012 I just noticed wcs145 is an asst wrestling coach and we all know y2 is as well. Now I get why you guys love upper weights so much even though neither of you wrestled an upper weight in h.s., (im guessing wcs145 wrestled 145 in h.s.). Because the head coaches of your teams make you guys wrestle the heavies in practice and you look across the room imagining how nice it would be to wrestle the littler guy! A much easier day on the job, for sure. Also, when they see someone criticizing heavies it ticks them off because those guys are their bread and butter in their job. Kinda like the gm guy hating ford. Y2 and wcs145 are just sticking up for their product. Still makes them both wrong about this subject (who has better WRESTLING skills, heavier or lighter guys? Cant even be queationed, lighter guys). But its ok to brag about the kids you wrestle in the room day in and day out. Just let them know that the neutral position doesn't always have too end with the opponent being thrown to his back. A takedown works well in that situation also. Would you be so kindly to post your name, school affiliation, wrestling background, and current role in wrestling please. Or would you prefer your anonymity? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jake Riesen Posted January 4, 2012 Share Posted January 4, 2012 I think really light weight guys like the 106 and 113 typically have a lot of trouble moving up weight classes. Most of the time its because of age disparity. Most 106er's are freshmen and sophmores so they wrestle equal level talent. So as they move up weight classes a lot of times there records do not get much better. I see age disparity at the top weight classes as well. It seems that any weight over 160 you rarly see anyone make it to state that is a freshmen or sophmore. Not many freshmen or sophmores can match size and speed of the seniors that have been lifting for four extra years. The age disparity up top seems to fool people into thing bigger guys are not as talented. In the middle and down low we see 4 time staters and they definatly have a lot of name recognition and rightfully so. Up top a lot of times we have state placers and champions that were sectional qualifiers or jv as freshmen and sophmores. I guess just because they typically develope later in their career doesn't mean they are not as talented. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1oldwrestler Posted January 4, 2012 Share Posted January 4, 2012 Would you be so kindly to post your name, school affiliation, wrestling background, and current role in wrestling please. Or would you prefer your anonymity? Joe Franklin - parent. One kid out of h.s. Another in 8th grade. Graduated from h.s. in 1982. Qualified for state in IL as a jr., took 3d as a senior. Never wrestled in college but been around it a lot. Still too anonymous for you? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jchas Posted January 4, 2012 Share Posted January 4, 2012 I'm not going to try to decipher this. Umm what? Let me explain this a little easier. Wrestling is a pound for pound sport. Pound for pound the middle and lighter weights are Faster, Stronger and more skilled than the heavier weights. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jchas Posted January 4, 2012 Share Posted January 4, 2012 Let me explain this a little easier. Wrestling is a pound for pound sport. Pound for pound the middle and lighter weights are Faster, Stronger and more skilled than the heavier weights. 1 more way. Many of our lighter and middle weight guys can do 30-35 pullups in a row. Give me a 220 or Hvy that can do that and I will give you this years State Champ. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Y2CJ41 Posted January 4, 2012 Share Posted January 4, 2012 How many pull-ups does it take to be a state champ at 145lbs? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jchas Posted January 4, 2012 Share Posted January 4, 2012 How many pull-ups does it take to be a state champ at 145lbs? No one knows because all of the good guys are strong enough to do a lot. "Faster, Stronger and more skilled" Middle weight guys have all three. Thanks for helping me make my point. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Y2CJ41 Posted January 4, 2012 Share Posted January 4, 2012 No one knows because all of the good guys are strong enough to do a lot. "Faster, Stronger and more skilled" Middle weight guys have all three. Thanks for helping me make my point. I guess I will just have my big guys work on pull-ups instead of wrestling technique because according to you if they can do a few pull-ups they can be state champs. I never knew it was so easy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
formerwrestler Posted January 4, 2012 Share Posted January 4, 2012 I'm guessing jchas was a a lighter weight wrestler in school. Just trying to justify his contention that he was a "real" wrestler. Everyone has preferences, his is just watching lighter guys wrestle. I prefer to watch the big guys! Does note make one right or the other one wrong. It's just a preference. Good luck to all for the rest of the season. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jchas Posted January 4, 2012 Share Posted January 4, 2012 I'm guessing jchas was a a lighter weight wrestler in school. Just trying to justify his contention that he was a "real" wrestler. Everyone has preferences, his is just watching lighter guys wrestle. I prefer to watch the big guys! Does note make one right or the other one wrong. It's just a preference. Good luck to all for the rest of the season. Actually no, I was a middle weight in school. I am currently 6'3" and 220. Got beat in the go round at New Castle. Wrestled with some of the bigs last summer. I actually like all the weights. If you go back and look at my other posts. I am in favor of adding a 15th weight back in the middle. I also said before that my son wrestles 106, Jack Chastain. My name is Jeremy Chastain. That is why my sign is Jchas. My response was to someone who said the heaver weights are stronger than the lighter weight. Pound for pound that is just false. P.S I like to debate just taking a side for some fun! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AJ Posted January 4, 2012 Share Posted January 4, 2012 I guess I will just have my big guys work on pull-ups instead of wrestling technique because according to you if they can do a few pull-ups they can be state champs. I never knew it was so easy. Worked for Chalfant... ;D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TripleB Posted January 4, 2012 Share Posted January 4, 2012 Man...... pull-ups...... I knew I was missing something... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jchas Posted January 4, 2012 Share Posted January 4, 2012 I guess I will just have my big guys work on pull-ups instead of wrestling technique because according to you if they can do a few pull-ups they can be state champs. I never knew it was so easy. It couldn't hurt! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Y2CJ41 Posted January 4, 2012 Share Posted January 4, 2012 Man...... pull-ups...... I knew I was missing something... Don't you hate that? I never knew it was so easy to coach the big guys, why have we been working on technique and conditioning when it is as simple as who can do the most pull-ups. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fwrestler Posted January 4, 2012 Share Posted January 4, 2012 In all honesty, if you can put a big guy out there who's really strong and has a good gas tank, he'll go to state 9 times out of 10, regardless of whether he knows anything about wrestling or not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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