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Penn superdual


Caleb Spires

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According to the IHSAA if you have wrestled Penns JV Team at A varsity tournament those wins and losses do not count towards your Varsity record. But I watched them on Saturday and they proved themself that Penns JV team can compete with a lot of Indianas Varsity teams. Penn also sent a 3rd team to the Westview Invite and took 2nd with all other Varsity teams. Coach Harper and staff have something great going on and can not wait to see them in action at Mishawka Invite.

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According to the IHSAA if you have wrestled Penns JV Team at A varsity tournament those wins and losses do not count towards your Varsity record. But I watched them on Saturday and they proved themself that Penns JV team can compete with a lot of Indianas Varsity teams. Penn also sent a 3rd team to the Westview Invite and took 2nd with all other Varsity teams. Coach Harper and staff have something great going on and can not wait to see them in action at Mishawka Invite.

 

Why would anyone want to waste their time wrestling them then?

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Penn does have an outstanding team and program...as they do in all their sports.  they also have something like 3500 kids in their school.  It is a different ball game when you have that many athletes to choose from.  To give you an idea on that it is about twice as many students as quality DAC schools like Chesterton and Laporte.  It is really necessary to wrestle as many of their kids as possible, and it creates tremendous depth in their program.  What is really scary is I bet they have a number of quality kids that quit because they cannot break into the varsity lineup and decide not to put the time into it.    As a parent of one of the teams that wrestled their jv team, it is really a varsity line up.  I guess my question is how they can by the rules wrestle two teams in one tournament.  Perhaps if a team did not show up they could do this.  But did this happen?

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compition.

 

Compitition that you can't count on your record? No thanks.

 

They've wrestled this superdual with two teams at least this past two or three years and I don't recalled anyone not being able to count the matches on their records. We wrestled their second team up in Edwardsburg a couple of years ago and it counted.

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Again to reinterate, they got rid of some teams a couple of years ago to get better competition.  Not sure that makes sense??

 

I also wonder why would a team want to put up their Varsity against a Penn or Mishawaka reserve team?  Won't help your record, only be using your kids to help build up the reserve kids for Penn/Mishawaka.

 

In addition, you are limited to 18 dates, why waste those on some other schools JV, that won't count towards a thing??

 

Personally this appears to be the big schools pushing around the small schools, again!!

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Again to reinterate, they got rid of some teams a couple of years ago to get better competition.  Not sure that makes sense??

 

I also wonder why would a team want to put up their Varsity against a Penn or Mishawaka reserve team?  Won't help your record, only be using your kids to help build up the reserve kids for Penn/Mishawaka.

 

In addition, you are limited to 18 dates, why waste those on some other schools JV, that won't count towards a thing??

 

Personally this appears to be the big schools pushing around the small schools, again!!

 

What schools did they get rid of? I've been going to this meet for 5 years now and it's not that different.

 

I still say that the matches against the Penn second team are valid. Karl, what do you know on this subject?

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Nobody forces any team to go to this invite...it is penn's invite...as long as they are compliant with ihsaa rules....teams want to go there because it is has been a great invite in a nice facility and it is well run with good competition...including Penn's #2 team that was 4 and 1 on the day with a loss to valparaiso.  My guess is the coaches from ht eopposing teams are not that bothered by the issue. Now if they are breakiing any rules that is different story

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What schools did they get rid of? I've been going to this meet for 5 years now and it's not that different.

 

Fairfield was not invited back after Dec. 2009.  Told they were looking for bigger schools and better competition?!?

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I would guess no on that one...teams probably invite Penn 2 because they need to fill a a slot and they know penn 2 will provide a full team and quality competition.  Most admins are happy to break even on wrestling and not lose money.  there is nothing worse from my point of view than wrestling a team that cannot field a full team and forfeits multiple weights.  that does not good for a team at all.  Penn has the numbers...I think overall the sport does a pretty nice job giving as many kids as possibility of getting matches.  there are jy and frosh tournaments and exhibition matches at events like the Penn duals. 

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9-4 All Organized Athletic Contests are Considered a ?Contest?

Participation of students in an organized athletic contest during the contest season with or against players not attending their school constitutes a game.

 

Organized Contest ? an assembling of persons for athletic competition, with or against individuals not presently in your school.

 

 

9-6 Member Schools Limited to One Tournament Series Team; Students May Only Represent Their Own School

Member schools may maintain any number of teams in the same sport, but only one team may represent a school in an IHSAA tournament series.

 

Varsity ? Highest team in a high school sport.

 

IHSAA 2011-12 By Laws

 

 

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9-4 All Organized Athletic Contests are Considered a “Contest”

Participation of students in an organized athletic contest during the contest season with or against players not attending their school constitutes a game.

 

Organized Contest — an assembling of persons for athletic competition, with or against individuals not presently in your school.

 

9-6 Member Schools Limited to One Tournament Series Team; Students May Only Represent Their Own School

Member schools may maintain any number of teams in the same sport, but only one team may represent a school in an IHSAA tournament series.

 

Varsity — Highest team in a high school sport.

 

IHSAA 2011-12 By Laws

 

 

 

Mayor,

 

This pretty much sums it up.  Results versus Penn's JV #1-13 are still technically against JV kids and should not count for seeding purposes.

 

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Mayor,

 

This pretty much sums it up.  Results versus Penn's JV #1-13 are still technically against JV kids and should not count for seeding purposes.

 

 

Where does the above quoted by-law state that results vs. JV kids should not count for seeding purposes? The way I read this is that they do indeed count... as there are no limits to a number of teams a school may have.

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Where does the above quoted by-law state that results vs. JV kids should not count for seeding purposes? The way I read this is that they do indeed count... as there are no limits to a number of teams a school may have.

 

Have at it...Counting matches against another schools JV team(s) probably sets a bad precedent

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