IntegratedCarp Posted March 28, 2011 Share Posted March 28, 2011 Not to be a Nelly-Negative, but it feels like we need to explain what ?matside pairings? actually are. Both ISWA and HYWAY claim to be utilizing matside pairings. However, they are not using matside pairings in the way that all other NUWAY states do. Having a person sit in a pairings room 200 feet away from the gym simply does not qualify as ?matside.? Matside pairings in Michigan and other states means: 1) The pairings individual is seated at a table within 3 feet of the mat. 2) The person pairs brackets and composes bout sheets for either 2 or 4 mats. 3) All bout sheets are returned to the pairing person right next to the mat you just wrestled on. 4) Medals are handed out by the pairing person right there matside upon completion. Example, you finish bout 78 and come in 1st place. You receive your 1st place medal, as do any wrestler placing 4th-8th who is done wrestling. The true 2nd match still can take place 20 minutes later, but everyone else who is done goes home with their award. By having the individual truly SEATED MATSIDE, it eliminates many bout sheet errors. Officials don?t have to walk to some pairings room 200 feet away to correct a problem. And wrestlers get their awards immediately. Also, if you use a staggered start it eliminates traffic on the floor and their is more room to seat the matside pairings person. Some will take this information as me being mean. I do not intend it in that way. I am just attempting to educate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TripleB Posted March 28, 2011 Share Posted March 28, 2011 I coached/reffed an ISWA tournament this weekend that did just what you described. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IntegratedCarp Posted March 28, 2011 Author Share Posted March 28, 2011 I am glad to hear that! I appreciate the information. Imop, the ISWA & HYWAY should require all tournaments to do that. I have been to six tournaments this season and only witnessed it done in this matter twice. Plus, both times awards were still separate and later. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TripleB Posted March 28, 2011 Share Posted March 28, 2011 On a separate issue, not sure how I feel about vertical pairing for freestyle. One thing I always liked was that you could lose and still win. With vertical pairing that opportunity is gone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jlittlejohn Posted March 28, 2011 Share Posted March 28, 2011 On a separate issue, not sure how I feel about vertical pairing for freestyle. One thing I always liked was that you could lose and still win. With vertical pairing that opportunity is gone. I think it is vertical pairing that you like. In vertical pairting placement is determined by classification points making it possible to lose yet still place first. Bracketed pairing is what is used for folkstyle and being more recognizable to most is veiwed as being much more simple to pair/understand than the vertical system. However, the vertical system is not that difficult to learn. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MattM Posted March 28, 2011 Share Posted March 28, 2011 This system has been used in all the events I have attended the last two year that said they would use matside pairings. The other events I have been to still used the only system with a pairings room/table and never claimed it was matside pairings. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TripleB Posted March 28, 2011 Share Posted March 28, 2011 I think it is vertical pairing that you like. In vertical pairting placement is determined by classification points making it possible to lose yet still place first. Bracketed pairing is what is used for folkstyle and being more recognizable to most is veiwed as being much more simple to pair/understand than the vertical system. However, the vertical system is not that difficult to learn. Thanks. I did indeed mean bracketed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jlittlejohn Posted March 28, 2011 Share Posted March 28, 2011 What was done at ISWA State was the use of true matside pairings plus the use of a central pairings center where reults were verified and entered into Trackwrestling and the awards were presented in a formal awards ceremony complete with the podium presentations which have become very popular. In addition, at Warren Central the 4 mats in the main gym were scored electronically on Trackwrestling, wereby; at the conclusion of those matches, pairings were generated automatically by that system. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IntegratedCarp Posted March 28, 2011 Author Share Posted March 28, 2011 I believe most you gentlemen are from the southern or central Indiana. Excellent news that clubs down there are using true matside pairings. However, I can say with confidence and regret that very few clubs are truly running matside pairings in northern Indiana. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dad23 Posted March 29, 2011 Share Posted March 29, 2011 Not to be a Nelly-Negative, but it feels like we need to explain what ?matside pairings? actually are. Both ISWA and HYWAY claim to be utilizing matside pairings. However, they are not using matside pairings in the way that all other NUWAY states do. Having a person sit in a pairings room 200 feet away from the gym simply does not qualify as ?matside.? Matside pairings in Michigan and other states means: 1) The pairings individual is seated at a table within 3 feet of the mat. 2) The person pairs brackets and composes bout sheets for either 2 or 4 mats. 3) All bout sheets are returned to the pairing person right next to the mat you just wrestled on. 4) Medals are handed out by the pairing person right there matside upon completion. Example, you finish bout 78 and come in 1st place. You receive your 1st place medal, as do any wrestler placing 4th-8th who is done wrestling. The true 2nd match still can take place 20 minutes later, but everyone else who is done goes home with their award. By having the individual truly SEATED MATSIDE, it eliminates many bout sheet errors. Officials don?t have to walk to some pairings room 200 feet away to correct a problem. And wrestlers get their awards immediately. Also, if you use a staggered start it eliminates traffic on the floor and their is more room to seat the matside pairings person. Some will take this information as me being mean. I do not intend it in that way. I am just attempting to educate. IntegratedCarp Posts: 104 (2.213 per day) Date Registered: February 09, 2011, 12:13:33 PM Last Active: Yesterday at 11:29:35 AM Your stats are very interesting. Just reading back through your posts. 2.213 per day...most all of them negative. Many are not based on facts. I rarely post on this site but the negativity you bring to this board is disturbing. I am beginning to question your motives. Obviously, you were not at either ISWA folkstyle state events this year yet you chose to make false statements and criticize. Is your goal to educate and work to improve Indiana wrestling or just to create dissention? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
snoopy Posted March 29, 2011 Share Posted March 29, 2011 I believe that I have said this before to you Mr. Carp. 6 People did the entire Jimtown meet (matside would have been difficult). More help means an easier situation for all. In the meets that I have worked I do not see the younger people getting involved. For the health of the sport we need new blood coming along. The people that work will soon get tired of getting trashed on the web. You must be careful how many times volunteer help gets insuted before they leave the sport. Please come to pairing and show by example. I'm sure the people will listen to your ideas. I would like to coach my kids and watch others, but some of us realize that without the volunteers the meets do not happen regardless of where or how you are pairing them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IntegratedCarp Posted March 29, 2011 Author Share Posted March 29, 2011 Your stats are very interesting. Just reading back through your posts. 2.213 per day...most all of them negative. Many are not based on facts. I rarely post on this site but the negativity you bring to this board is disturbing. I am beginning to question your motives. Obviously, you were not at either ISWA folkstyle state events this year yet you chose to make false statements and criticize. Is your goal to educate and work to improve Indiana wrestling or just to create dissention? Sure, you must be right... Like where I thanked all the ISWA volunteers here: http://indianamat.com/messageboard/index.php/topic,16133.msg119709.html#msg119709 Or thanked them again here: http://indianamat.com/messageboard/index.php/topic,16171.msg120253.html#msg120253 Or thanked Jimtown, Penn and Mishawaka here: http://indianamat.com/messageboard/index.php/topic,16090.msg119427.html#msg119427 Obviously, I was trying to create dissention by telling people their hard work is appreciated. Btw, I volunteer at every single tournament I attend. Most importantly though, I am quite tired of people just accepting the status quo. Other states are running tournaments better than Indiana. We are improving, but need to move more quickly. I simply will not accept the tired old notion that one cannot suggest improvements, especially improvements that other states have proven work, because the pairing people are volunteers. I love Indiana wrestling. I just want us to modernize our procedures like Michigan or Wisconsin did years ago and leave the dark ages of 12 hour tournaments, missing bout sheets and waiting hours for awards behind. This isn't a 'personnel' or 'personal' issue. This is a procedural and efficiency and respect for everyone's time issue. It's not personal, it's just business. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jchas Posted March 29, 2011 Share Posted March 29, 2011 #1 I want to say again that this years schoolboy state was the best run tournament I have ever been to. To move on to the subject of other tournaments. Does anyone know what it cost to use trackwrestling? Tournament that use trackwrestling seem to move better on a whole than those who don't. I think more local tournament should try and use this program if it not to expensive. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Timeinandout Posted March 29, 2011 Share Posted March 29, 2011 Integrated crap, What tournament do you run? Most of the people who complain(make suggestions) aren't involved with running a tournament. On another note, Franklin and Perry Meridian have done matside pairing for several years now. This year, Perry had a laptop or Ipad at every mat keeping time and score. The score and pairing were done through track wrestling. The 400 wrestler tournanment was complete around 2:30. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ekocottonball Posted March 29, 2011 Share Posted March 29, 2011 Obviously, I was trying to create dissention by telling people their hard work is appreciated. Btw, I volunteer at every single tournament I attend. Most importantly though, I am quite tired of people just accepting the status quo. Other states are running tournaments better than Indiana. We are improving, but need to move more quickly. I simply will not accept the tired old notion that one cannot suggest improvements, especially improvements that other states have proven work, because the pairing people are volunteers. I love Indiana wrestling. I just want us to modernize our procedures like Michigan or Wisconsin did years ago and leave the dark ages of 12 hour tournaments, missing bout sheets and waiting hours for awards behind. This isn't a 'personnel' or 'personal' issue. This is a procedural and efficiency and respect for everyone's time issue. It's not personal, it's just business. Well said. There are too many folks in this state who are just flat out opposed to change. For years, many on this board have been discussing how a lack of class wrestling has been killing Indiana. And now only when Team State is going away are people starting to see the problem. The iswa has been failing for along time. And you can't say anything logical to an iswa person without them giving a totally emtional reaction. I think just like class wrestling's situation, there are a bunch of iswa people in for a rude awaking when hyway takes off. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Y2CJ41 Posted March 29, 2011 Share Posted March 29, 2011 #1 I want to say again that this years schoolboy state was the best run tournament I have ever been to. To move on to the subject of other tournaments. Does anyone know what it cost to use trackwrestling? Tournament that use trackwrestling seem to move better on a whole than those who don't. I think more local tournament should try and use this program if it not to expensive. I believe that using trackwrestling slows down the matside pairings quite a bit. That is unless you have a computer at every 1-4 mats with a printer. The cost of using trackwrestling is very minimal and depends on the amount of competitors. Here is the cost - 0-200 Wrestlers = $100 - 400 Wrestlers = $150 - 600 Wrestlers = $200 - 800 Wrestlers = $250 To use TW you would need probably 2-4 computers for a regular sized tournament to keep it running smoothly. Of course you have to add in having great table runners to get the bout sheets to and from the tables also. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GrecoCoach Posted March 29, 2011 Share Posted March 29, 2011 I believe that using trackwrestling slows down the matside pairings quite a bit. That is unless you have a computer at every 1-4 mats with a printer. The cost of using trackwrestling is very minimal and depends on the amount of competitors. Here is the cost - 0-200 Wrestlers = $100 - 400 Wrestlers = $150 - 600 Wrestlers = $200 - 800 Wrestlers = $250 To use TW you would need probably 2-4 computers for a regular sized tournament to keep it running smoothly. Of course you have to add in having great table runners to get the bout sheets to and from the tables also. + Internet Access Not all schools allow access to their Internet connection or WiFi. My district will not allow any connection unless it is a school-owned machine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nosoccermomhere Posted March 30, 2011 Share Posted March 30, 2011 I know a lot of tournaments that are useing true mat side pairing. I know New Pal has for the past few years and all Red Cobra tournaments do, Perry does and so on. I know the ISWA state tournament was a "TRUE" mat side pairing this year. I sat right next to mat 4 all day both days doing the bout sheets and updating the brackets. And you could not have asked for a better run tournament than the state tournament at Warren this year. And as for getting your award at the end of your last match, I like the podium presentation and I know the kids like getting up there and getting their award in front of everyone. They worked hard for it and they deserve their momement in the spot light. I think Indiana has come a long way in the past 3 years and I know that the ISWA is taking all suggestions to mind and are working hard to better this sport for the kids. I have been in the same spot you are, wanting change and quicker advancements and all I heard was, " where are you during the ISWA meetings and volunteer your time. Well guess what, I starting volunteering more of my time and started going to a few meetings, and now I understand what is in the works for improving wrestling in Indiana and what it takes to do all that needs to be done. Nobody and no orginazation is perfect, but I do know that the people of the ISWA are trying there best to do what is right for all of us in this sport. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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