HOF93 Posted February 20, 2011 Share Posted February 20, 2011 After watching another weekend of great efforts by Indiana HS wrestlers, I am amazed at the decisions some coaches make that put their own wresters in jeopardy of losing the most important matches of their lives. The first one I see very often in HS wrestling, and saw it at least 6 times in the State tournament (even from one of the veteren coaches of one of he top programs in our state). 1. A match is 0 -0 at the end of the 1st period. The coach tells his wrestler to defer instead of choosing down. WHAT???? If this match is tied thru the overtimes, do you not want your guy to have choice for the Sudden Death period? 2. Coach, if your wrestler takes an injury time-out for a non-serious injury, PLEASE make sure that he knows that if he takes another one, he instantly gives the other wrestler choice of positions. I'm prettty sure that Lynde and Stevenson could have sucked it up a little more and not asked for that 2nd injury time-out. 3. If your wrestler has been ridden like a rented mule for the 2 min period, and the 30 sec OT, and likewise, you've ridden hthe other guy out, why do you put him down in the Sudden Death period? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fearless fly Posted February 20, 2011 Share Posted February 20, 2011 4. coach....dont let your wrestler wear a tuxedo singlet...they deserve to to lose wearing such ridiculous attire ! ff Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
D-train Posted February 20, 2011 Share Posted February 20, 2011 i agree with you on point number three. you could make a good case either way. the one good thing about taking top is that you don't have to worry about getting called for stalling, it isn't called very often in those situations. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
headlocku Posted February 20, 2011 Share Posted February 20, 2011 on 1. sometimes the style of wrestler can change your decision on this, but I usually agree with you. If for instance you're not great on bottom but a great rider and you defer the other kid is almost always going to pick down and then you don't have to risk being placed in the down position as well as you get added information for your third period choice. (i was one of these wrestlers. I was very difficult to take down but was usually a bit too conservative to get a take down myself but I was awful from bottom in matches. Quite the different story in practice but that's a different story.) If your coach knows you are this type of wrestler then it makes sense to defer. If you ride him out for a period and don't score and don't threaten to score then maybe you try bottom or more than likely try neutral or top again to try to score. 2. Good point that kids need to be aware of the consequences of a second injury time-out but sometimes it just happens. 3. totally agree. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blastdouble119 Posted February 20, 2011 Share Posted February 20, 2011 4. coach....dont let your wrestler wear a tuxedo singlet...they deserve to to lose wearing such ridiculous attire ! ff Really...? They deserve to lose? I personally loved the tuxedo singlet! Shows that he's wanting to be formal, but he's there to party too.. -Cal Naughton Jr Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldwrestler215 Posted February 21, 2011 Share Posted February 21, 2011 After watching another weekend of great efforts by Indiana HS wrestlers, I am amazed at the decisions some coaches make that put their own wresters in jeopardy of losing the most important matches of their lives. The first one I see very often in HS wrestling, and saw it at least 6 times in the State tournament (even from one of the veteren coaches of one of he top programs in our state). 1. A match is 0 -0 at the end of the 1st period. The coach tells his wrestler to defer instead of choosing down. WHAT???? If this match is tied thru the overtimes, do you not want your guy to have choice for the Sudden Death period? 2. Coach, if your wrestler takes an injury time-out for a non-serious injury, PLEASE make sure that he knows that if he takes another one, he instantly gives the other wrestler choice of positions. I'm prettty sure that Lynde and Stevenson could have sucked it up a little more and not asked for that 2nd injury time-out. 3. If your wrestler has been ridden like a rented mule for the 2 min period, and the 30 sec OT, and likewise, you've ridden hthe other guy out, why do you put him down in the Sudden Death period? You don't think we as coaches knew that? Did you ever think that maybe there was something wrong with the kid? I like how you call this out like you actually knew what happened. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lowsingle Posted February 21, 2011 Share Posted February 21, 2011 If you work your ass off all year, cant you wear whatever you want too? cmon, get over it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
littlevito Posted February 21, 2011 Share Posted February 21, 2011 I think something needs to be done about a ref allowing injury time when a wrestler doesn't really need it. It seems to happen more and more that it is more of a way to catch some air instead of actually being hurt. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
XCard Posted February 21, 2011 Share Posted February 21, 2011 I think something needs to be done about a ref allowing injury time when a wrestler doesn't really need it. It seems to happen more and more that it is more of a way to catch some air instead of actually being hurt. Some will argue that it is 1:30 secs wasted if you don't utilize the time. I believe they call it INJURY time for a reason, you are INJURED. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pin2win1 Posted February 21, 2011 Share Posted February 21, 2011 I think something needs to be done about a ref allowing injury time when a wrestler doesn't really need it. It seems to happen more and more that it is more of a way to catch some air instead of actually being hurt. That's all fine and dandy, until the ref refuses to allow an injured wrestler to not take injury time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
littlevito Posted February 21, 2011 Share Posted February 21, 2011 That's all fine and dandy, until the ref refuses to allow an injured wrestler to not take injury time. I agree with you in that statement, but there is a common sense involved from someone laying on the mat rather than being down on one knee circling his finger in the air or in the corner standing up bent over with their hands on their knees taking a drink of water and going back at it at full force. Sure at this time the ref as to issue the injury time to the wrestler, but someday a line needs to be drawn. In now way am I calling out one individual or a certain few, cause I have seen wrestlers that I cheer for do it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pin2win1 Posted February 21, 2011 Share Posted February 21, 2011 ok, i get what you are saying, but what if a wrestler has a broken rib, he might lay on his back, or what if he just bruised it? Maybe he strained his neck. I think it's a dangerous thing to not give injury time out, cause only 1 person truly knows if he is injured or not (barring the injury being serious), and he is the one asking for the time out. I think they only and best thing that they could do to deter fake injury time outs, which was to give the other wrestler choice of position after the 2nd Inj time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
feez Posted February 21, 2011 Share Posted February 21, 2011 I think something needs to be done about a ref allowing injury time when a wrestler doesn't really need it. It seems to happen more and more that it is more of a way to catch some air instead of actually being hurt. Now you want the referee to be a Doctor as well as a referee? If the wrestler or coach wants an injury time out you want us to tell him no if we think he is just looking for a rest break? Just how does the referee determind that? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
littlevito Posted February 21, 2011 Share Posted February 21, 2011 Now you want the referee to be a Doctor as well as a referee? If the wrestler or coach wants an injury time out you want us to tell him no if we think he is just looking for a rest break? Just how does the referee determind that? Not saying a referee needs to be a doctor as well. Not saying I have the correct solution to it. But you have seen it, I have seen it, and others have seen it. Just needs to be some type of way to deter from using injury time as a water break. Cause it seems like I see it more and more every season. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pin2win1 Posted February 21, 2011 Share Posted February 21, 2011 well vito... what is your solution to stopping this from happening. Remember as a ref, if you refuse to give the guy an inj to, and he is hurt and gets hurt even worse, your butt will be on the line. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
littlevito Posted February 21, 2011 Share Posted February 21, 2011 100% sure I stated in my last comment that I didn't have a solution. And yes the liability issue is there cause the #1 rule for an official that I learned when I was 11 years old from some of the best referees in this country (Clark, Errett, etc...) was protect the wrestler... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pin2win1 Posted February 21, 2011 Share Posted February 21, 2011 sorry vito, my tired eyes skipped over that part.... I would say, yes people using injury time to take a breather is annoying, and wrong. And any coach who knows for sure that their wrestler doing this should not enable him. But i don't think there is any system that we can put in place to keep wrestlers from using that time to take a breather without risking injury to those wrestlers who might be injured. Atleast we aren't like soccer where our guys take falls, and have a signal to the coach that says "im really ok, Im just acting" ;-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
El Lardo Posted February 21, 2011 Share Posted February 21, 2011 sorry vito, my tired eyes skipped over that part.... I would say, yes people using injury time to take a breather is annoying, and wrong. And any coach who knows for sure that their wrestler doing this should not enable him. But i don't think there is any system that we can put in place to keep wrestlers from using that time to take a breather without risking injury to those wrestlers who might be injured. I agree and also cannot see a reasonable solution to this problem. Wrestlers abusing injury time has been an issue as long as its been in place. The only thing we can rely on is a wrestlers integrity which MOST who participate in this sport have an abundance of. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tiger19 Posted February 21, 2011 Share Posted February 21, 2011 New rule... This rule applies to the 3rd period only....The "injured" wrestler gets 30 seconds of non-penalized injury time during his first time-out. After exceeding 30 seconds, opponent gets choice. 30 seconds isn't enough time to get a real breather. It's kind of like the automatic 10 second run off in football late in the game or losing a timeout in football. The only guy that gets screwed is the kid with a real injury. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pin2win1 Posted February 21, 2011 Share Posted February 21, 2011 great, so now i am in a tight match, i am riding a guy... now i can intentionally try and hurt the guy to get out of letting him get an escape point, now i can choose down to get an escape point. not to mention its unfair for a wrestler who is really injured. Plus if i am injured, i get about 5 or 6 seconds before the ref signals it, another 15 before the ref stops injury time and restarts the match. That gives me 50 seconds, thats enough of a breather for me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
randalllynch Posted February 21, 2011 Share Posted February 21, 2011 Deferring is a strategy to win in regulation so the kid knows what he/she needs to win in the third. I.E. how much risk to take, if they ride out the second they only need an escape to win, if they don't/can't ride out then they can adapt their options to what they need. But the goal is to win in regulation, not overtime,where sudden death determines it for the most part and a slip or 1 good move ends it. But this is also dependent on the kid, some kids are not very good on bottom and I tend to put them at neutral or on top in the third, especially if they are against a strong rider, which I would know (hopefully) by the third period. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jakeum1970 Posted February 21, 2011 Share Posted February 21, 2011 Both kids benefit from the injury time out because they both get to take a breather. I just don''t like kids calling injury timeout when they are about to get scored on and the ref stops the match without awarding points. However, I have no solution for that either. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pin2win1 Posted February 21, 2011 Share Posted February 21, 2011 Both kids benefit from the injury time out because they both get to take a breather. I just don''t like kids calling injury timeout when they are about to get scored on and the ref stops the match without awarding points. However, I have no solution for that either. are not refs allowed to award points for imminent near-fall, even allowed to award an extra point? Why not allow the ref to award a 2 pt take down, or reversal, or a 1 pt escape if he deems that any of those were imminent. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WingMan Posted February 24, 2011 Share Posted February 24, 2011 HOF93 or whoever stated that Lynde needed to "suck-it-up" needs a foot in his a@*. Anyone who has watched him knows he doesn't need a breather. Come on...no one needs to go to that level on a kid who has busted his butt to get where he is. He was hurt and it was clear to anyone who gives a crap about the individuals and not just the outcome. You should be ashamed of yourself for playing God and doctor. And if you are a doctor, maybe you could have went down and looked at Lynde as we had a nurse-practioner on hand and she did just that. Arm-chair coaches are what hurt this sport giving their un-educated "two-cents." Suck-it-up? Really, you must have many, many records and achievements in wrestling under your belt to state something like this. If I were to guess, you were in band or maybe the cheer squad and only wished you wrestled or maybe you didn't make the team???? Maybe now you are fortunate to have a wrestler or know one...but that is far from having the expertise to criticize these young men who made it to this level. I hope you sleep well at night. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wildcatcountry97 Posted February 24, 2011 Share Posted February 24, 2011 This got off topic. Lynch is correct - Deferring is a strategy to win in regulation so the kid knows what he/she needs to win in the third. I.E. how much risk to take, if they ride out the second they only need an escape to win, if they don't/can't ride out then they can adapt their options to what they need. But the goal is to win in regulation, not overtime, where sudden death determines it for the most part and a slip or 1 good move ends it. Anything can happen in that 2nd period. ie - 1st period ends 0-0. 2nd period you defer, and a lot of scoring occurs. Now 3rd period you have the choice for the best opportunity at the win. #3 - WOW. That was just one of those situations where you win - great call / you lose - stupid call Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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