TripleB Posted February 24, 2011 Share Posted February 24, 2011 I got in waaaaaaay to late in this conversation to start. Too many head shaking "seriously?" comments to even comment back at. On a level I'm w/ IUPsych. To the person that didn't want to bring the civil rights movement "down to the level" of women's rights, did you read that before you posted it? I hope Rick Reilly writes my eulogy some day, guy is golden with a keyboard or pen. I think some of you have some sexual frustrations that maybe you need to let out. I never wrestled a girl, but I doubt I would have been looking at getting quick feel or some free action. Wait a minute, I wreslted HWT, I never would have wrestled a girl that big...She would have killed me anyway. I can't wait til my daughter kicks your sons butts. Of course yesterday while watching Iowa/Minnesota (she's 3) she kept asking me where the cheerleaders were and when I asked if she was going to wrestle, she looked at me like I was an idiot and said "I'm a cheerleader daddy." Now there's an interesting questions, would you rather your daughter be a cheerleader or wrestler? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TripleB Posted February 24, 2011 Share Posted February 24, 2011 I think my post strengthens the argument that if wrestling wants to be respected, we need to drop the caveman mentality. I Tarzan, you Jane. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ATC Posted February 24, 2011 Share Posted February 24, 2011 If girls can join the boys wrestling team. Why can't boys join the girls volleyball team? Boys volleyball is a spring sport and offered in several Indiana HS. Cathedral and Center Grove have the two top boys volleyball teams in central Indiana Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Y2CJ41 Posted February 24, 2011 Share Posted February 24, 2011 I think my post strengthens the argument that if wrestling wants to be respected, we need to drop the caveman mentality. I Tarzan, you Jane. Why change the way we think or how we do things in the sport? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
polytropos Posted February 24, 2011 Share Posted February 24, 2011 If girls can join the boys wrestling team. Why can't boys join the girls volleyball team? Boys volleyball is a spring sport and offered in several Indiana HS. Cathedral and Center Grove have the two top boys volleyball teams in central Indiana The question was about joining the GIRLS volleyball team, not whether certain schools have started one for boys. I have serious doubts that there is any case of a boy being allowed to participate on a girl's team at the high school level. In fact, I would be shocked if someone could produce an example. Nature has simply decided against it. The only way girls are able to be successful in wrestling is by staying in the lower weights where they can take advantage of the lag in boys' physical development. So you have girls that are muscularly well developed wrestling against boys who are in the early and awkward stages of puberty. This is generally true even if a boy and a girl are the same age -- girls physically develop much faster and stay much lighter. This is why you do not see girls having any success at higher weight classes where both contestants are physically mature, and I would be willing to bet that in the matches that the lighter girls lose their opponent is most often in that extremely small percentage of males who physically mature but remain light (probably because they are short). That said, as others (including myself) have repeated, the issue is not about who wins and loses in inter-sex matches. I don't care if a woman were able to win an NCAA championship, that would not justify the practice. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mtv2112 Posted February 24, 2011 Share Posted February 24, 2011 So logically then, if two indiana hs offered girls wrestling, then girls statewide would no longer be allowed to wrestle in boys wrestling. I wonder if we will have separate divisions for boys and girls when Indiana adopts competitive eating as a sport. Might have the same types of arguments as we have on this site. Weight classes, team vs. individual, classing of schools, etc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JimtownFather Posted February 24, 2011 Share Posted February 24, 2011 The question was about joining the GIRLS volleyball team, not whether certain schools have started one for boys. I have serious doubts that there is any case of a boy being allowed to participate on a girl's team at the high school level. In fact, I would be shocked if someone could produce an example. Nature has simply decided against it. The only way girls are able to be successful in wrestling is by staying in the lower weights where they can take advantage of the lag in boys' physical development. So you have girls that are muscularly well developed wrestling against boys who are in the early and awkward stages of puberty. This is generally true even if a boy and a girl are the same age -- girls physically develop much faster and stay much lighter. This is why you do not see girls having any success at higher weight classes where both contestants are physically mature, and I would be willing to bet that in the matches that the lighter girls lose their opponent is most often in that extremely small percentage of males who physically mature but remain light (probably because they are short). That said, as others (including myself) have repeated, the issue is not about who wins and loses in inter-sex matches. I don't care if a woman were able to win an NCAA championship, that would not justify the practice. When I was in high school in the mid '70s, SB St Joe had a 6'7" guy playing on the girls volleyball team. I think he helped them make it to Semi-State. I think I heard that there was a change in the rules so that can't happen again. Someone might be able to shed some more light on this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
polytropos Posted February 24, 2011 Share Posted February 24, 2011 When I was in high school in the mid '70s, SB St Joe had a 6'7" guy playing on the girls volleyball team. I think he helped them make it to Semi-State. I think I heard that there was a change in the rules so that can't happen again. Someone might be able to shed some more light on this. I should have put a time limitation on that statement. I will never be surprised in hearing that something was done in the 70's. Those were ... interesting times. But I think this actually supports my point, nonetheless. If boys were allowed to play on the girls team, there would soon be no girls team. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WingMan Posted February 25, 2011 Share Posted February 25, 2011 Gentelemen and Ladies, I think we have lost the focus of this post. Would you take the sport of wrestling away from the very few young ladies who participate in this sport? What if in fact that they are the better wrestler? You ban them to only compete among their own sex? Why? If it were my own daughter in this predicament (and it is not), then I would encourage her to compete to the best of her ability. That is what parents do. Does anyone get the WIN magazine? Do you honestly think the women in that pub got better by wrestling only women? Please don't take the position that women should not wrestle men for you have then taken the position that women have no place in wrestling. Women have progressed from being the June Cleavers of the world. Everyone needs to accept that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JB1212 Posted February 25, 2011 Share Posted February 25, 2011 If girls wrestling was a good idea, then they would have the numbers to have their own sport. A girl should only wrestle another girl. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TripleB Posted February 25, 2011 Share Posted February 25, 2011 If girls wrestling was a good idea, then they would have the numbers to have their own sport. A girl should only wrestle another girl. If Boys' wrestling was a good idea, then they wouldn't be taking our state tournament away. Boys should only play basketball. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sarto Posted February 25, 2011 Share Posted February 25, 2011 If Boys' wrestling was a good idea, then they wouldn't be taking our state tournament away. Boys should only play basketball. Was this statement intended to somehow logically follow from the one you quoted? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TripleB Posted February 25, 2011 Share Posted February 25, 2011 Yes it was, many movements have started from the ground up. The logic used is ridiculous and laughable in both instances. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sarto Posted February 25, 2011 Share Posted February 25, 2011 Yes it was, many movements have started from the ground up. The logic used is ridiculous and laughable in both instances. I agree that it is ridiculous and laughable. Indeed it is a butchery of the English language to refer to it as 'logic'. I also agree that many movements have started from the ground up. But to imply that a movement is good by virtue of that fact is a stretch, to say the least. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TripleB Posted February 25, 2011 Share Posted February 25, 2011 I know in the barracks rasslin' with women ain't right, but we ain't in Nam anymore and we're not asking the boys to pay five dollah before they go out on the mat. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sarto Posted February 25, 2011 Share Posted February 25, 2011 I know in the barracks rasslin' with women ain't right, but we ain't in Nam anymore and we're not asking the boys to pay five dollah before they go out on the mat. What the hell are you talking about? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Disco Posted February 26, 2011 Share Posted February 26, 2011 Sad sarto, another Y2 wanabe, all blab and no substance. Been dealing with this on the board for several years. Dingo gave up on the nonsense.To bad. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
awood1 Posted February 28, 2011 Share Posted February 28, 2011 OK, so to simplify and satisfy for the single digits......Girls are gonna wrestle, and whether its religion, hormones or the 19th amendment that troubles you it is your problem to deal with. Chicks will wrestle and you can't stop it. If you insist on it being a problem, I suggest soccer...I hear you can run for hours without touching anyone's naughty parts. http://www.sacbee.com/2011/02/25/3429816/too-short-for-football-she-stands.html Here is a story about the chick that has changed my mind about girls wrestling. I would probably still be a knuckle dragging chauvinist had I not met her 5 years ago. She is now the 1st ever California Girl's State Wrestling 122lb. State Champion. Wave of the future boys...ready or not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MattM Posted February 28, 2011 Share Posted February 28, 2011 http://www.sacbee.com/2011/02/25/3429816/too-short-for-football-she-stands.html Here is a story about the chick that has changed my mind about girls wrestling. I would probably still be a knuckle dragging chauvinist had I not met her 5 years ago. She is now the 1st ever California Girl's State Wrestling 122lb. State Champion. Wave of the future boys...ready or not. The leader of the feminist movement really love it when you refer to an example of female making progress in a man's world as a "chick!" ;D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
awood1 Posted February 28, 2011 Share Posted February 28, 2011 The leader of the feminist movement really love it when you refer to an example of female making progress in a man's world as a "chick!" ;D She would be disappointed if I called her anything else. ;D Oddly enough, she pointed out to me last week that wrestling is the one sport that DOESN'T have to change for women (basketball, baseball, even gymnastics have differant "girl" rules)...so it's really odd that it took until now for it to become something other than a "man's" sport? Martial arts have had women divisions for years? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MattM Posted February 28, 2011 Share Posted February 28, 2011 She would be disappointed if I called her anything else. ;D Oddly enough, she pointed out to me last week that wrestling is the one sport that DOESN'T have to change for women (basketball, baseball, even gymnastics have differant "girl" rules)...so it's really odd that it took until now for it to become something other than a "man's" sport? Martial arts have had women divisions for years? The difference in official national rules is actually the reason usually given for not allowing boys to participate in sports like gymnastics or volleyball. If that is a legitimate argument or not for not allowing them to participate what allowing girls to cross over to boys sports is an issue no one as fully tackled as of yet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sarto Posted March 1, 2011 Share Posted March 1, 2011 Here is an article on the subject: http://www.nationalreview.com/articles/260897/should-boys-wrestle-girls-mona-charen Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
awood1 Posted March 3, 2011 Share Posted March 3, 2011 Here is an article on the subject: http://www.nationalreview.com/articles/260897/should-boys-wrestle-girls-mona-charen Good article and I agree with just about everything said (I know, non-committal..take a stand!) But if anything CAN be learned from this, I would hope that it is that girls CAN and SHOULD be able to wrestle (and until more girl's only programs exist that means they have to wrestle boys). Girls like Tianna have blazed a trail that hopefully others will follow. When she started in HS, there was no "girls" wrestling, just wrestling and she took her beatings without complaint because she loved the sport and that was her only option. That is still the case for girls in 45 states. There is nothing but upside for wrestling if more states, and in turn colleges, actually ADD girls wrestling programs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sarto Posted March 3, 2011 Share Posted March 3, 2011 Good article and I agree with just about everything said (I know, non-committal..take a stand!) But if anything CAN be learned from this, I would hope that it is that girls CAN and SHOULD be able to wrestle (and until more girl's only programs exist that means they have to wrestle boys). Girls like Tianna have blazed a trail that hopefully others will follow. When she started in HS, there was no "girls" wrestling, just wrestling and she took her beatings without complaint because she loved the sport and that was her only option. That is still the case for girls in 45 states. There is nothing but upside for wrestling if more states, and in turn colleges, actually ADD girls wrestling programs. The fallacy in your argument is your first premise; namely, that girls have an absolute right to compete in the sport. I do not admit that premise, and therefore I believe that the statement 'until more girl's only programs exist that means they have to wrestle boys' is a non sequitur. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TripleB Posted March 3, 2011 Share Posted March 3, 2011 :o :o Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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