Reasons for a class system for team state

[KarlHungus]

 

that being said, the school size does not effect whether one person will be good or not, that is all up to the individual and whether he wants to go to the RTC's, off season tournaments, and camps. What affects the individual wrestler's performance is not the size of the school, or even the quality of the school's coach. What affects the individual is the work he puts in during the offseason. Now, might one wrestler be at an advantage cause his coach is better than another school's coach? Oh definately! But Garrett's Asst. Coach could very easily be better than Ben Davis' head coach, so even a wrestler from a larger school could be at a disadvantage compared to a kid from a smaller school in that aspect. Fact is there are many things a wrestler can do to get better no matter what the school size he attend is.

 

 

Are the better coaches more likely to be at big schools with large pools of athletes to choose from, multiple paid assistants, and better quality facilities or are the better coaches toiling at places where they struggle to fill line-ups, are lucky to have a paid assistant who shows up to practice every day, and are an afterthought when it comes to facility usage?

[Y2CJ41]

Well, there is nothing stating that small schools have to have no one else in the practice room for a stud to wrestle to make him better. Plus I think the wrestling that a wrestler does in the offseason can make him much better than the wrestlers in a room. I mean yeah, wouldn't wrestling some of the nation's top wrestlers toughen up a guy alot more than wrestling a couple of Indiana's best?

How does a kid get better or prepared for February if their main practice partners are fish from November trough February?

[KarlHungus]

Well, there is nothing stating that small schools have to have no one else in the practice room for a stud to wrestle to make him better. Plus I think the wrestling that a wrestler does in the offseason can make him much better than the wrestlers in a room. I mean yeah, wouldn't wrestling some of the nation's top wrestlers toughen up a guy alot more than wrestling a couple of Indiana's best?

 

I take it you would pick the kid from the big school in my scenario then?

[pin2win1]

Are the better coaches more likely to be at big schools with large pools of athletes to choose from, multiple paid assistants, and better quality facilities or are the better coaches toiling at places where they struggle to fill line-ups, are lucky to have a paid assistant who shows up to practice every day, and are an afterthought when it comes to facility usage?

 

Well tiny matre dei got the great coaches, despite being a small school... Yorktown looks like they got a good coach despite being "smaller." Garrett seems to be doing ok despite being smaller. Plus the individual is not cnfined to only learning from their coach throughout the entire years, just a few months out of the year. Yes, they may not be the best coaches, but if the individual chooses to go out and find ways to improve, then they can.

[Y2CJ41]

Pointing out three coaches out of 150 doesn't prove your point.  Lets ask this again, please look at the bolded part for the emphasis. 

 

Are the better coaches more likely to be at big schools with large pools of athletes to choose from, multiple paid assistants, and better quality facilities or are the better coaches toiling at places where they struggle to fill line-ups, are lucky to have a paid assistant who shows up to practice every day, and are an afterthought when it comes to facility usage?

 

 

Or we can put it another way, where would you rather coach?

[pin2win1]

Wow.. i am getting confused... rappid fire from 2 people with 2 gorrillas on their info... confusing...

 

Let me summarize, the best way to overcome Nov-Feb is to find the right people to work with March-October. And as of now, i can not forsee anything changing my opinion on that. Now, maybe someday something will, but I can't see it right now.

[KarlHungus]

Well tiny matre dei got the great coaches, despite being a small school... Yorktown looks like they got a good coach despite being "smaller." Garrett seems to be doing ok despite being smaller. Plus the individual is not cnfined to only learning from their coach throughout the entire years, just a few months out of the year. Yes, they may not be the best coaches, but if the individual chooses to go out and find ways to improve, then they can.

 

I would not call Mater Dei tiny, they have been 3A in football at one point. 

 

The answer is obvious, the best coaches are attracted to the bigger schools.  Are there examples of of smaller schools with fine coaches.  Sure.  But we both know what jobs the best coaches are attracted too.

[KarlHungus]

Wow.. i am getting confused... rappid fire from 2 people with 2 gorrillas on their info... confusing...

 

Let me summarize, the best way to overcome Nov-Feb is to find the right people to work with March-October. And as of now, i can not forsee anything changing my opinion on that. Now, maybe someday something will, but I can't see it right now.

 

But in my example I said they are equal on Nov. 1st.

 

Do you pick a kid from Mishawaka or a kid from LaVille in February?

[AJ]

Or we can put it another way, where would you rather coach?

 

I am sure there are numerous schools larger than Garrett, or an "average" size school, that do not have coaches lining up to coach there.  You speak as if all big schools have all the resources that a Mishawaka or Penn has...

[pin2win1]

Are the better coaches more likely to be at big schools with large pools of athletes to choose from, multiple paid assistants, and better quality facilities or are the better coaches toiling at places where they struggle to fill line-ups, are lucky to have a paid assistant who shows up to practice every day, and are an afterthought when it comes to facility usage?

 

 

Or we can put it another way, where would you rather coach?

 

More Likely the better coaches will go to the larger school, however, this is not always the case. What do we do with some of the small schools get better coaches than the other small schools. Fact is good coaches can and do end up at both schools. And if not there is always March-Oct.

 

And to answer where I would rather coach.... I'd rather not coach, my wrestlers probably would suck if they did not go somewhere else during the offseason, not as bad as i sucked, but it would be ugly!!!!!!!

[KarlHungus]

But to twist my words around to say i meant that mishawaka had a smaller pool to choose from than Garrett is unacceptable, unwarranted, and only done so to make it look like i was making an idiotic statement, which was done more so by y2 than you.

 

Y2 never said mishawaka had a smaller pool to choose from either.  He said the same number.  Now you are putting words in his mouth.

[pin2win1]

But in my example I said they are equal on Nov. 1st.

 

Do you pick a kid from Mishawaka or a kid from LaVille in February?

 

I'll always choose the Mishawaka kid..... but that is a bad example cause I'd always choose the Misahwaka kid over anyone... i am biased ;-)

 

Now, what if the choice was Yorktown and Ben Davis.... i would take Yorktown.

 

I don't think we can generalize because it would all depend upon the team.

[Y2CJ41]

More Likely the better coaches will go to the larger school, however, this is not always the case. What do we do with some of the small schools get better coaches than the other small schools. Fact is good coaches can and do end up at both schools. And if not there is always March-Oct.

 

And to answer where I would rather coach.... I'd rather not coach, my wrestlers probably would suck if they did not go somewhere else during the offseason, not as bad as i sucked, but it would be ugly!!!!!!!

Say there are 100 good head coaches in the state.  How many would you say are at a big school(top 50% enrollment) and are at a small school?  Note 150ish schools in each classification.

[KarlHungus]

More Likely the better coaches will go to the larger school, however, this is not always the case. What do we do with some of the small schools get better coaches than the other small schools. Fact is good coaches can and do end up at both schools. And if not there is always March-Oct.

 

 

So if they are more likely to be at bigger schools, is that not another advantage individuals from big schools have?

[pin2win1]

Y2 never said mishawaka had a smaller pool to choose from either.  He said the same number.  Now you are putting words in his mouth.

 

No he did, he has made similar statements numerous times, even on a thread that was deleted...... Sometimes the same, sometimes Mishawaka had less

[pin2win1]

Ok, lets say this... The best coaches will go to the best schools, no matter the size!!!!!!!!!

 

And even if the worst coaches end up at the small schools only, they still have March through October.

 

I think those 2 statements sum everything up quite well.

[KarlHungus]

I'll always choose the Mishawaka kid..... but that is a bad example cause I'd always choose the Misahwaka kid over anyone... i am biased ;-)

 

Now, what if the choice was Yorktown and Ben Davis.... i would take Yorktown.

 

I don't think we can generalize because it would all depend upon the team.

 

That's because Yorktown has a better room.  In the big picture though the random individual has a better chance of improving in a random big schools room then the random individual of equal skill level in a random small school room.  wouldn't you agree?

[Y2CJ41]

I am sure there are numerous schools larger than Garrett, or an "average" size school, that do not have coaches lining up to coach there.  You speak as if all big schools have all the resources that a Mishawaka or Penn has...

Coaches weren't lining up for the Garrett job.  I had to recruit the current head coach and he even took a significant pay cut to come to Garrett.  There was exactly ONE person apply for the job.  The year before, there were two, myself and a convicted felon.  Since I declined the job, a former basketball player was the head coach for a year.  If Luke Fielden left Garrett, it wouldn't be a hot job because of the pay and the "fun" that comes with coaching a small school.

[KarlHungus]

 

 

No he did, he has made similar statements numerous times, even on a thread that was deleted...... Sometimes the same, sometimes Mishawaka had less

 

I can find it where he said the same, can't find anywhere where he said less

[pin2win1]

That's because Yorktown has a better room.  In the big picture though the random individual has a better chance of improving in a random big schools room then the random individual of equal skill level in a random small school room.  wouldn't you agree?

 

Maybe for the best or the best schools which tend to be larger on a whole... However, if this were the case jsut because a school was large, then why are south bend wrestlers not doing well? Heck they can even somewhat recruit within their city. These are lareger schools, and yet we have maybe 2 state qualfiers coming out of each one at best. So in that situation, I think Garrett is pretty equal to SB schools, despite being smaller.

 

I mean if we are going to fix the "disadvantage" to individuals in the small schools how do we fix them at the larger schools like the SB schools?

 

I mean we are totally over generalizing here.

[KarlHungus]

Ok, lets say this... The best coaches will go to the best schools, no matter the size!!!!!!!!!

 

And even if the worst coaches end up at the small schools only, they still have March through October.

 

I think those 2 statements sum everything up quite well.

 

The best schools:

 

.1. Mishawaka (23-0) - large

2. Crown Point (12-1) - larger

3. Yorktown (27-1) - medium

4. Perry Meridian (22-1) - large

5. Castle (15-3) - large

6. Evansville Reitz (17-1) - large

7. Evansville Mater Dei (17-1) - small - parocial

8. Merrillville (17-2) - larger

9. Penn (17-3) - huge

10. Portage (14-6) - very large

11. Bloomington South (17-4) - large

12. Bellmont (19-5) - medium/large

13. Franklin (20-6) - large

14. Roncalli (12-3) - large - parocial

15. Jeffersonville (22-6) - larger

16. Cathedral (18-3) - large - private

17. New Palestine (22-5) - large

18. Carmel (7-4) - gargantuan

19. Lawrence North (10-5) - huge

20. Center Grove (19-5) - very large

 

[pin2win1]

I can find it where he said the same, can't find anywhere where he said less

 

can you view the deleted thread? And i will look through this one... but I do think it was the deleted thread he made that comment in now that I think about it.

[AJ]

Coaches weren't lining up for the Garrett job.  I had to recruit the current head coach and he even took a significant pay cut to come to Garrett.  There was exactly ONE person apply for the job.  The year before, there were two, myself and a convicted felon.  Since I declined the job, a former basketball player was the head coach for a year.  .

 

I would bet that many "bigger" schools have similar stories....

[Y2CJ41]

Maybe for the best or the best schools which tend to be larger on a whole... However, if this were the case jsut because a school was large, then why are south bend wrestlers not doing well? Heck they can even somewhat recruit within their city. These are lareger schools, and yet we have maybe 2 state qualfiers coming out of each one at best. So in that situation, I think Garrett is pretty equal to SB schools, despite being smaller.

 

I mean if we are going to fix the "disadvantage" to individuals in the small schools how do we fix them at the larger schools like the SB schools?

 

I mean we are totally over generalizing here.

Big schools will also see an increase in state qualifiers and kids making it closer to the state finals.  They will see a smaller increase because of the fact that they do not need as much stimulation as the small school programs.

[Y2CJ41]

can you view the deleted thread? And i will look through this one... but I do think it was the deleted thread he made that comment in now that I think about it.

What thread was it?