duck_and_run Posted January 15, 2010 Author Share Posted January 15, 2010 Y2 your right and so does every other team in northeast indiana. Belmont didn't fair much better and they are clearly the second best team in northeast indiana. So does that mean we should throw mishawaka in there own division since they are 20 points better then every team in the state? I mean after all we want more turn out if bellmont keeps getting beat by 30 points by mishawaka no one will want to wrestle for them. I am also sure if penn keeps loosing to mishawaka they will have no program in five years. The magical classing of the state makes no sense to me. The benifits are plain and simple fiction and if they do cause some schools to get more wrestlers out they also hinder some wrestlers from the best compitition. I guess it matters what you find more important making everyone feel like a winner or letting the guys who do work there tails off to have a chance to become champions and a chance to wrestle the best. Whitcko may not match up at all with those schools but they are still amoung the best in northeast indiana. top 3 as of right now untill someone beats them and I think of them as a pretty successful program. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Y2CJ41 Posted January 15, 2010 Share Posted January 15, 2010 So can you tell me why 39 other states have class wrestling? I am curious as to why Indiana is so much more advanced than most other states? I am guessing it is because they are all democrats. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
duck_and_run Posted January 15, 2010 Author Share Posted January 15, 2010 So if all your friends jump off a bridge you should too? Come on!! Indiana wrestling would have to at least be slumping for me to say that there were a need for us to class wrestling. I can not think of a time where our wrestlers have done so well at the college level. It doesn't look like we will be slumping in that area anytime soon either. We have several sought after wrestler coming through our system right now. All this being said I am not saying that our system is making it happen, but I am also saying our system doesn't hurt there chances. I am all about the level of wrestling going up and it has exponetially in the past ten years. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Y2CJ41 Posted January 15, 2010 Share Posted January 15, 2010 So you can't answer the question, huh? Just answer the question of why 39 other states class wrestling. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
meto Posted January 15, 2010 Share Posted January 15, 2010 to the people in wabash co. wabash high school won a state championship in baseball in 1986 before they classed baseball and northfield and southwood won after they classed and we consider wabash the true state champions and still celebrate the team Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
meto Posted January 15, 2010 Share Posted January 15, 2010 has anyone did research on how many kids from class wrestling states that are in the smaller schools go to the d1 powerhouse collages Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Y2CJ41 Posted January 15, 2010 Share Posted January 15, 2010 Is it all about DI wrestling? There are many kids from small high schools that go to the DII, DIII or NAIA level and have great success because they are seen at the state finals. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Y2CJ41 Posted January 15, 2010 Share Posted January 15, 2010 to the people in wabash co. wabash high school won a state championship in baseball in 1986 before they classed baseball and northfield and southwood won after they classed and we consider wabash the true state champions and still celebrate the team Did Southwood and Northfield both trash their class trophy? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
decbell1 Posted January 15, 2010 Share Posted January 15, 2010 They probably didn't even bother taking it home. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
duck_and_run Posted January 15, 2010 Author Share Posted January 15, 2010 Y2 I do not have all the info on why other states classed. I would venture to say they classed because some thought it was a good idea, some were forced to as all the other sports were classed within the state, and others thought it would make money. It doesn't mean that it is the right thing to do. Some states allow abortion, others have gambling, and others allow gays to marry, I am not saying that these are right or wrong. I am just saying just because others do it doesn't mean its right for our state. I am not sure there has been any evidence that it promotes wrestling and raises the talent level in a state. I think the only thing that can do that is to raise enthusiasm and spend a little of our resources in areas that need help. Your arguements don't fly with me and many other individuals in the state. We may disagree and thats fine, but your not going to try and say that class wrestling would instantly change the state for the better without any evidence. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fearless fly Posted January 15, 2010 Share Posted January 15, 2010 Is it all about DI wrestling? There are many kids from small high schools that go to the DII, DIII or NAIA level and have great success because they are seen at the state finals. Any college coach with any merit will have noticed good wrestlers throughout the season and not by seeing them at the state finals. But earlier you said... Placing at state in a lower division(s) will get college coaches attention, but what really gets their attention is impressive performances at national tournaments like Fargo, NHSCA nationals, USAW Nationals, etc. I will use this as an example: I had two kids, same grade level both accomplish two great feats as sophomores. One was a state qualifier, the other placed at Fargo, but was only a two time regional qualifier at that point. Guess who got a letter from a DI school? Yes, the 2x regional qualifier because he placed at a national tournament. so I see no reason, based on your own words, to have state tournaments at all. Just wrestle in the national tournaments! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Y2CJ41 Posted January 15, 2010 Share Posted January 15, 2010 Y2 I do not have all the info on why other states classed. I would venture to say they classed because some thought it was a good idea, some were forced to as all the other sports were classed within the state, and others thought it would make money. It doesn't mean that it is the right thing to do. Some states allow abortion, others have gambling, and others allow gays to marry, I am not saying that these are right or wrong. I am just saying just because others do it doesn't mean its right for our state. I am not sure there has been any evidence that it promotes wrestling and raises the talent level in a state. I think the only thing that can do that is to raise enthusiasm and spend a little of our resources in areas that need help. Your arguements don't fly with me and many other individuals in the state. We may disagree and thats fine, but your not going to try and say that class wrestling would instantly change the state for the better without any evidence. Where did I say that class wrestling was a magic formula? I have never said that. If class wrestling is such a horrible idea, why haven't all those states went back to a single class system? Why does the NCAA class their sports? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
duck_and_run Posted January 15, 2010 Author Share Posted January 15, 2010 The NCAA was about resources. Other states do not go back for several reasons. Some maybe because the state has all other sports classed. Also once you do something as a sport it is almost impossible to go back. People do not like to admit when they make a mistake so thats why other states may not have gone back. There are even some states that may like the changes. That still doesn't make it right for our state. Me and you will never agree and thats fine this thread was about sectionals now its a mess. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Y2CJ41 Posted January 15, 2010 Share Posted January 15, 2010 Would you consider number of students a resource at the high school level? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
duck_and_run Posted January 15, 2010 Author Share Posted January 15, 2010 A small resource in retrospect to every other resource. If it were the main resource the numbers would be a ton higher and there wouldn't be so many sub par big school wrestling programs. Take Snider for example they have had success in the past. They had coaches that put in the effort and got the job done for a lot of years and they were closing the gap on the great teams in the area. Then the coach was let go and the program didn't have the same youth envolvment and the results show. Another post said they didn't even fill a roster or even come close for that matter. They have maybe the biggest school in northeast indiana and they are not able to compete with any teams from the ACAC. Thats not taking anything away from them because they do have terrific individuals, but it just shows that size doesn't do anything without community participation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Y2CJ41 Posted January 15, 2010 Share Posted January 15, 2010 So 3x more state qualifiers isn't enough of a disparity? Wow! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
duck_and_run Posted January 15, 2010 Author Share Posted January 15, 2010 I like how size is the only thing with you. I am officially done go ahead and delete this topic its pointless. I will say one last thing. You can look at the teams that get multiple staters year in and year out and big or small they have one thing in common great youth programs. Do me a favor and delete this whole topic. It wasn't about class wrestling and I think its a dead issue anyways so lets just not even bring it up anymore the state is not changing and its cool. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Y2CJ41 Posted January 15, 2010 Share Posted January 15, 2010 Explain why Garrett got state qualifiers without a youth program then? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jimtown 138 Posted January 15, 2010 Share Posted January 15, 2010 region? penn is not in the region. I use penn because thats the team I support and they will soon be a factor on state level. Penn has the human resources in spades. The past is the past, they won't hang as long has harp is coaching Poser... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SOX FAN Posted January 15, 2010 Share Posted January 15, 2010 Not having a feeder system would cripple and High School program. This is a area where wrestler support from other parts of the state may be useful in helping to change the minds of the administrators in charge in the Ft. Wayne area. Is anyone currently working on helping to change the loss of the middle school program in the Ft. Wayne area? With "My Man Mitch"s" educational cuts, this may become a state wide problem. I recently heard elementary and middle school wrestling may become a club responsibility. Meaning they will have to shoulder the cost. The all mighty $$$$$$$ will rule. Hope this does not happen, but you better be prepared. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Disco Posted January 15, 2010 Share Posted January 15, 2010 Here is my problem with the idea that class wrestling would spread state titles out. The fact is big schools that were bad will still be bad, and small schools that are bad will still be bad. It just makes another level of dominate teams. The fact that it is class does not make non wrestling areas good. If you ask me it seems more like a coaches thing. I know everyone wants recognition, and from what I hear the school you help out with is very dedicated to offseason stuff and they work extremly hard. Just because you work hard doesn't mean state or sectional titles will come instantly. In the evansville sectional, Matre Dei beats out several bigger schools most year and earns sectional titles. Good post, "The fact that it is class does not make weak wrestling areas of the state good" now getting away from the CLASS swagger and back to topic what can be done to improve. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Disco Posted January 15, 2010 Share Posted January 15, 2010 This is just my opinion I am definitely not tying to further tension. I am a wrestler at a very small school in Southern IN. The enrollment of our high school is less than 300 and every year I have wrestler we have had between 6 and 9 kids on the team. I am a 3 time regional qualifier, and last year at semi-state I lost my state qualifying match by 2 points. It is my opinion, as a wrestler that is still currently competing, that the current system is effective. I'm from a small school, yes, but this has taught several of my teammates and myself included have learned that we have to work extra hard if we want to advance in post season. I believe this is true no matter what size school I choose to wrestle for. However, if at the end of the season my hard work pays off and I am the state champion. I will be glad to know that it is the entire state of IN that i am the champion of, and not just the small schools or the struggling programs. I am proud to be part of a system that tells wrestlers that it doesn't matter what size school you are from, if you have the skill and work ethic to be the best, step up and show us what you've got. Another good example here of how Class seems not to be the direction to go in for overall sectional improvement in the state areas. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Galagore Posted January 15, 2010 Share Posted January 15, 2010 My question still remains this....does putting in time ONLY mean wrestling in the offseason, or could putting in time also mean participating in a fall and spring sport and in an organized summer lifting program? I won't hold my breath on a response.....this seems to be way to hard for classless wrestling people to answer, Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scardy94 Posted January 15, 2010 Share Posted January 15, 2010 My question still remains this....does putting in time ONLY mean wrestling in the offseason, or could putting in time also mean participating in a fall and spring sport and in an organized summer lifting program? I won't hold my breath on a response.....this seems to be way to hard for classless wrestling people to answer, Depends on who you're talking too. I think if you are in a sport you are putting in time because you are supporting your school, however, bigdan will say thats not putting in time bc its not all wrestling. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scardy94 Posted January 15, 2010 Share Posted January 15, 2010 Anyway, how about Twin Lakes having the worst sectional? : Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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