decbell1 Posted January 10, 2010 Share Posted January 10, 2010 1. Mishawaka (18-0) 2. Ev. Mater Dei (17-0) 3. Crown Point (10-1) 4. Merrillville (17-2) 5. Yorktown (27-1) 6. Perry Meridian (21-1) 7. Castle (13-3) 8. Portage (13-6) 9. Penn (11-3) 10. Bloomington South (15-4) 11. Bellmont (18-5) 12. Franklin (15-6) 13. Ev. Reitz (16-0) 14. Jeffersonville (20-6) 15. New Palestine (22-5) 16. Roncalli (4-3) 17. Cathedral (10-2) 18. SB Clay (22-1) 19. Carmel (7-4) 20. Lawrence North (6-4) I would appreciate someone from Ev. Memorial and North Central sending me a rundown of their team's results for the year to date. Let the discussions begin. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pin2win1 Posted January 11, 2010 Share Posted January 11, 2010 Only cause I know someone is going to say it, I might as well: SB Clay still gets no respect, they beat Yorktown for crying out loud : Now seriously.... I am somewhat suprised Penn moved up despite their not so solid showing at Bellmont on Saturday. I myself was disspointed that they did not have some better results. Oh well, i think the rankings look pretty good up top. But just one question, is there anywhere that i could see the Yorktown's season results? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
decbell1 Posted January 11, 2010 Author Share Posted January 11, 2010 The SB Clay issue has been well-discussed. They have only wrestled two top teams. They wrestled half of Yorktown's lineup and then got slammed by Merrillville. Every other team in the rankings has a quality win to hang their hat on. Here are Yorktown's notable results: W, Bellmont 52-19 W, Garrett 55-12 W, Chesterton 51-22 W, Elkhart Memorial 65-6 W, New Haven 66-9 1st-Yorktown 288.5 2nd-Castle 243.5 3rd-Mooresville 156 W, Brownsburg 58-5 W, Holt (MI) 39-28 W, Ben Davis 58-12 W, Franklin 46-21 W, Jeffersonville 36-25 I have them at 27-1 currently. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smooth34 Posted January 11, 2010 Share Posted January 11, 2010 It's intereting to see some schools that have a lot of matches (20s), whereas some other teams only have 10-12. I would like to hear people's rationale behind wrestling duals and super duals vs. wrestling in tournaments. It probably doesn't matter as long as you are getting matches, but obviously some teams prefer one over the other. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
greco165 Posted January 11, 2010 Share Posted January 11, 2010 The SB Clay issue has been well-discussed. They have only wrestled two top teams. They wrestled half of Yorktown's lineup and then got slammed by Merrillville. Every other team in the rankings has a quality win to hang their hat on. Here are Yorktown's notable results: W, Bellmont 52-19 W, Garrett 55-12 W, Chesterton 51-22 W, Elkhart Memorial 65-6 W, New Haven 66-9 1st-Yorktown 288.5 2nd-Castle 243.5 3rd-Mooresville 156 W, Brownsburg 58-5 W, Holt (MI) 39-28 W, Ben Davis 58-12 W, Franklin 46-21 W, Jeffersonville 36-25 I have them at 27-1 currently. Also, they had the dominating performance at the Ron Sauer duals against some ranked Missouri teams, and did it with some wrestlers up a weight. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pin2win1 Posted January 11, 2010 Share Posted January 11, 2010 i know decbell, just being a smart... well you get the idea ;-) Hmm, I think it would be intersting to see Yorktown against some top 10 teams. Seems like they have handled the bottom 10 of the top 20. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
greco165 Posted January 11, 2010 Share Posted January 11, 2010 i know decbell, just being a smart... well you get the idea ;-) Hmm, I think it would be intersting to see Yorktown against some top 10 teams. Seems like they have handled the bottom 10 of the top 20. They beat #7 Castle at the Mooresville invite by 45 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pin2win1 Posted January 11, 2010 Share Posted January 11, 2010 head to head and tournament format are completely different animals. I mean look at the Mishawaka invitational, Mishawaka dominated merrillville, but I think it could go either way if those two teams met head to head. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
greco165 Posted January 11, 2010 Share Posted January 11, 2010 head to head and tournament format are completely different animals. I mean look at the Mishawaka invitational, Mishawaka dominated merrillville, but I think it could go either way if those two teams met head to head. I understand your point, and to an extent I agree, but for an invite with 2 clear cut dominant teams, 45 points is a pretty wide margin. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
catfish Posted January 11, 2010 Share Posted January 11, 2010 I understand your point, and to an extent I agree, but for an invite with 2 clear cut dominant teams, 45 points is a pretty wide margin. You cannot go by your logic here. Castle and Yorktown had 8 head to head matchup according to my records. Castle would have been leading 18-16. Yorktown would have been favorites at 103, 135, and 171. Castle would have been favorites at 140, 189, and 215. Yorktown has state ranked wrestler at 135. Castle has had their 189, and 215 ranked in the state. Castle would win 7 of the 14 matches I am pretty confident. I also believe Yortown would have wone 32-28. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DuneFan Posted January 11, 2010 Share Posted January 11, 2010 Pin2 win 1: There is no way Merrillville could come close to Mishawaka. My prediction is that Mishawaka will win team state in a cakewalk. Also, I don't think Crown Point would have any problems with Mater Dei either. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pin2win1 Posted January 11, 2010 Share Posted January 11, 2010 Dune fan, I gotta disagree... Merillville looks like they match up rather well with the cavemen... maligned posted this earlier, and I think he is spot on.... Judging from the Al Smith Invite, I think the matches would have a good chance beng 8-6 in favor of Mishawaka, If one match would turn then the Pirates might be the team that can beat Misahwaka. However, Merillville has to get past Crown Point first, who in turn matches up really well with Merillville. 103: Stevens-Merr (2nd place); Matsoff-Mish (8th place) Head-to-head result: Stevens, 6-4 Most likely future result: Merrillville 3-4 team points 112: Beck-Mish (1st place); Garcia-Merr (3rd place) Head-to-head result: Beck, 11-1 Most likely future result: Mishawaka 3-5 team points 119: Padilla-Merr (5th place); Binion-Mish (round of 12) Two common opponents, Padilla +4 per match, Binion -5 Most likely future result: Merrillville 3-4 team points 125: Napules-Merr (1st place); Wisler-Mish (3rd place) Head-to-head result: Napules, 10-5 Most likely future result: Merrillville 3 team points 130: Schrader-Mish (1st place); Valdivia-Merr (7th place) Two common opponents, Schrader +4.5/match, Valdivia +3.5 Most likely future result: Mishawaka 3 points 135: Guerra-Mish (2nd place); Pence-Merr (7th place) Two common opponents, Guerra pin/+2, Pence pin/-2 Most likely future result: Mishawaka 3 points 140: Delluna-Merr (6th place); Eddy-Mish (round of 12) Two vicarious common opponents, Delluna +2.5, Eddy +1.5 Most likely future result: Merrillville 3 points 145: Marshall-Mish (8th place); Avalos-Merr (round of 12) Two common opponents, Marshall +2/loss pin, Avalos loss pin/-1 Most likely future result: Mishawaka 3 points 152: Stahl-Mish (1st place); Barcenas-Merr (round of 16) Two vicarious common opponents, Stahl win fall, Barcenas loss fall Most likely future result: Mishawaka 6 points 160: White-Mish (5th place); Nzeata-Merr (round of 12) One common, one vicarious common, White -5/fall, Nzeata -7/loss fall Most likely future result: Mishawaka 3-4 points 171: Morin-Mish (3rd place); Wengel-Merr (5th place) Head-to-head: Morin, 8-4 Most likely future result: Mishawaka 3 points 189: Berry-Merr (6th place); Abu Shebab-Mish (7th place) Head-to-head: Berry, 8-3 Most likely future result: Merrillville 3-4 points 215: Lentz-Mish (2nd place); Nickson-Merr (round of 12) One common, one vicarious common, Lentz +7, Nickson -4.5 Most likely future result: Mishawaka 4-5 points 285: Travis-Merr (1st place); Thomas-Mish (2nd place) Head-to-head: Travis, 3-0 Most likely future result: Merrillville 3 points All matchups considered, this data would suggest that Mishawaka would be a 10 point favorite. However, there are obviously many potential close matches here that could lead to a Mishawaka blowout or Merrillville being very close to the upset. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hammer Posted January 11, 2010 Share Posted January 11, 2010 Dune fan, I gotta disagree... Merillville looks like they match up rather well with the cavemen... maligned posted this earlier, and I think he is spot on.... Judging from the Al Smith Invite, I think the matches would have a good chance beng 8-6 in favor of Mishawaka, If one match would turn then the Pirates might be the team that can beat Misahwaka. However, Merillville has to get past Crown Point first, who in turn matches up really well with Merillville. I would score it 32-18 Mishawaka, and that's giving Merrillville the benefit of the doubt in a couple matches that I think Mishawaka is capable of winning. Nobody will get within a dozen points of Mishawaka in the state. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pin2win1 Posted January 11, 2010 Share Posted January 11, 2010 hammer, you are more than entitled to have ur opinion. However, even with me being a rather biased mishawaka fan, I still think that Mishawaka will not have that easy of a time against Merillville. Some teams just match up better with other teams. I mean honestly, Penn seemed to match up well with Mishawaka during their dual meet and gave Misahwaka their toughest test this year, however, Penn got their butts handed to them this weekend to teams that Mishawaka handed their butts to. I truly think Merrillville can give Mishawaka the run for their money IF they start at the right weightclass, and IF mishawaka does not wrestle up to their full potential. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IUBjj171 Posted January 11, 2010 Share Posted January 11, 2010 You cannot go by your logic here. Castle and Yorktown had 8 head to head matchup according to my records. Castle would have been leading 18-16. Yorktown would have been favorites at 103, 135, and 171. Castle would have been favorites at 140, 189, and 215. Yorktown has state ranked wrestler at 135. Castle has had their 189, and 215 ranked in the state. Castle would win 7 of the 14 matches I am pretty confident. I also believe Yortown would have wone 32-28. Castle is state ranked in 145, 152, 160, 189, 285 along with some wreslters that are unranked giving people a run for their money Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DuneFan Posted January 11, 2010 Share Posted January 11, 2010 Pin lwin2: Merrillville has to get out of the team regional to get the chance to wrestle Mishawaka, which I again say that should that happen and they do meet at state I'd give you 15 points, with Mishawaka being the winner. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TDubya Posted January 11, 2010 Share Posted January 11, 2010 hammer, you are more than entitled to have ur opinion. However, even with me being a rather biased mishawaka fan, I still think that Mishawaka will not have that easy of a time against Merillville. Some teams just match up better with other teams. I mean honestly, Penn seemed to match up well with Mishawaka during their dual meet and gave Misahwaka their toughest test this year, however, Penn got their butts handed to them this weekend to teams that Mishawaka handed their butts to. I truly think Merrillville can give Mishawaka the run for their money IF they start at the right weightclass, and IF mishawaka does not wrestle up to their full potential. I agree w/ merriville being the toughest matchup for mishawaka in the state, and also i am a mishawaka fan. Penn was the toughest test to date, but binion pinned himself after dominatin the entire match, winning by more than 10 gettin a stalling warning then blast doublin his kid so hard he rolled through to his back so the score should've been a ten point swing more towards mish and penn wrestled to keep it close and they succeeded but i never felt threatened by what penn brought to the table that night. stay off your back and thats what they did. merriville has threats for sure but mish are confident and will get up for merriville if they get a shot at them. Crown point beatin merriville is wild to me because they didnt belong on the mat w/ mish at calumet and everyone is sayin merriville is the team to beat mish. shows how important matchups really are Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ccbig Posted January 11, 2010 Share Posted January 11, 2010 I agree w/ merriville being the toughest matchup for mishawaka in the state, and also i am a mishawaka fan. Penn was the toughest test to date, but binion pinned himself after dominatin the entire match, winning by more than 10 gettin a stalling warning then blast doublin his kid so hard he rolled through to his back so the score should've been a ten point swing more towards mish and penn wrestled to keep it close and they succeeded but i never felt threatened by what penn brought to the table that night. stay off your back and thats what they did. merriville has threats for sure but mish are confident and will get up for merriville if they get a shot at them. Crown point beatin merriville is wild to me because they didnt belong on the mat w/ mish at calumet and everyone is sayin merriville is the team to beat mish. shows how important matchups really are Binion match was much closer then the score showed. A few close scrambles barely went Binion's way, some points on the edge of the mat weren't awarded to the other wrestler, then Binion got rolled and he also lost the scramble after the roll. (A good boxing analogy for that match would be - A good technical boxer got knocked out by a good knock out boxer.) At the end of that match the teams were only 3 or 6 points apart. Mishawaka Penn was supposed to be a blowout in Mishawaka's favor - it wasn't a blowout. Penn came into that match rated as 18th. The team dual that night showed just how underrated Penn was as a team at that point of the season. It really does show that certain teams match up better then others against each other depending on where each team's strong and weaker wrestlers are in the lineups. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
12andcounting Posted January 12, 2010 Share Posted January 12, 2010 Wow. Reitz is ranked 13th and is only one of a handful of undefeated teams. They have 5 ranked wrestlers, and are looking tough. We will find out how good they are this Thursday when the wrestle at #2 MD, and #7 Castle Saturday. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
decbell1 Posted January 12, 2010 Author Share Posted January 12, 2010 Reitz has wrestled a very weak schedule to date. I've struggled every week on where to put them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jon H Posted January 12, 2010 Share Posted January 12, 2010 Fair enough Decbell. I appreciate your effort on the rankings. As 12andcounting mentioned, we will know soon enough where Reitz stands after THE dual on Thursday and the 6-way Saturday. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
decbell1 Posted January 12, 2010 Author Share Posted January 12, 2010 Exactly, there are always these types of teams. We didn't know what Penn had until the Al Smith. We didn't really know what Bellmont could do until this past weekend. These teams all made big jumps as soon as they had an opportunity to really show themselves. I just have a hard time giving a team a big ranking without anything to really show for . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
12andcounting Posted January 12, 2010 Share Posted January 12, 2010 You do a great job and put alot of thought into the rankings. I totally understand your justification. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
decbell1 Posted January 12, 2010 Author Share Posted January 12, 2010 Thanks, I appreciate it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TDubya Posted January 16, 2010 Share Posted January 16, 2010 ccbig, your absolutely right.. penn was super underrated and has some real talent.. i wish them the best of luck... i know some of the kids personally and it shows why they are tough wrestlers, i know harper has them working and they'll be real tough next year as well when the manspeakers and others of the team grow Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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