Top 12 Indiana High School Wrestling Programs of the Decade (2000-2009)

[beachbum21]

Nice effort and it does generate interesting conversation, however I need to offer "other" food for thought.  The scoring system being used is flawed when you are talking about the TOP PROGRAMS.  I do not mean to take anthing away from any program but the facts are the facts.... LN dropped out of the Bellmont Super Dual in the decade we are talking about, because their coach admitted that they were not competitve and opted for lesser compition (this does not sound like a top program of the decade, it sounds more like a program that was dominate for a few years or so) and compiled a lot of points in the this scoring system.  Much like the success of Griffith, they had 3 outstanding studs and a couple of good kids in the decade, but that does not make them a top program of the decade.  The discussion of TOP PROGRAMS should be the consistancy of success, not a few teams having outstanding years for 4 years then dropping off the map. This is like trying to use some kind of point system to say which state champ was better at certain weight class, the 2002 vs. the 2008.  Like I said this is good conversation but no way can you put a scoring system in place that will justify any rating sytem...this will always be individual opinions.  Great work.....

[12oz curls]

beachbum21,I dont know were you have been but  I have been watching indiana wrestling for 25 years and LN has had one of the top wrestling programs in the state as long as i can remember. You said they just had a few good individuals that piled up points, I dont remember them ever having a week team. The one think you have to remeber is that the reason they dont have as many team state showings is becuase of the level of competion they had to  face over the years to just make the team state. They had to go through teams like Carmel, Beach Grove and Cathedral who were the best teams in the Indianapolis area for years not to mention teams like Warren Central, LC, NC and that the fact there sectionals over the years have been pretty solid as well.

No i'm not an LN fan just a wrestling fan

[12oz curls]

1 more thing, I dont remember LN ever shying away from competition. Here is there schedule:

Warren Central

@Anderson Highland

@Franklin Comm (Roncalli, Franklin, Pike)

Carmel

the next 3 weeks are brutal

@Calumat(Mishawaka, Crown Point, Cathedral, Franklin, Portage etc...)

Marion County tournanment

Al Smith Classic

@Inpls Tech

@Lawrence Central

MIC tournament(Warren Central, Center Grove ect...)

It looks to me that they wrestle one of the toughest schedules in the state.

[decbell1]

I don't think beachbum was trying to put LN down, but he was simply stating a fact. A lot of people were disappointed when LN dropped out of the Bellmont Super Dual after those two huge years that they had.

 

 

No one ever said they had a weak team, but I think the case could also be made that they weren't a TOP team. I'm assuming that was the point beachbum was trying to make.

[Smooth34]

OK maybe its a clarification issue on my part.  If you flip the first and last part of my first statement around it helps clear things up a little.  

 

Many of the teams you listed had at least some success in the 90s and some even prior to that.  I was thinking it would also be cool to see a list of  programs who have moved up the most over the last decade (i.e. had sucess in 2000-2009 but was somewhat less known previous to that) and who are still going strong into 2010.   Basically percentage wise programs who have done the best in the last 10 year span compared to previous decades.   I know that would be a lot more work to compile that list because of the more extensive background research needed.  However, to avoid just a subjective list we would need the statistics just like you did for your top 12 of the decade

 

Sorry for the confusion.  I actually really liked your original list and the data to back it up.  I just though it would also be nice to give credit to coaches and programs who have made major advancements in the last 10 years too.

 

 

Based on this criteria, I would have to say Elkhart Memorial is one of the teams who had success in this decade without much success in the 90s. 

[Wawasee Coach]

I just want to reference the comment of Griffith having 3 studs. That is pretty impressive but you forget that there happend to be added another State champ they had in Jose Escobedo. Having 4 state champions that year is pretty impressive. Lets also consider the rest of the playing field of the individuals who won state and look at where they are at now!!! Reece is at the top of his game at Ohio State as well as Angel at IU.

[Coach Williams]

Nice effort and it does generate interesting conversation, however I need to offer "other" food for thought.  The scoring system being used is flawed when you are talking about the TOP PROGRAMS.  I do not mean to take anthing away from any program but the facts are the facts.... LN dropped out of the Bellmont Super Dual in the decade we are talking about, because their coach admitted that they were not competitve and opted for lesser compition (this does not sound like a top program of the decade, it sounds more like a program that was dominate for a few years or so) and compiled a lot of points in the this scoring system.  Much like the success of Griffith, they had 3 outstanding studs and a couple of good kids in the decade, but that does not make them a top program of the decade.  The discussion of TOP PROGRAMS should be the consistancy of success, not a few teams having outstanding years for 4 years then dropping off the map. This is like trying to use some kind of point system to say which state champ was better at certain weight class, the 2002 vs. the 2008.  Like I said this is good conversation but no way can you put a scoring system in place that will justify any rating sytem...this will always be individual opinions.  Great work.....

 

We didn't drop out of Bellmont becasue we weren't competitive. Look at our schedule, I'd put it up against anyones. Mishawaka is the only team that has a tougher schedule than us.

 

Secondly, LN in the 2000's, has been in the top 4 of the team state tournament 5 times. That means, they not only got there, but they won at least one dual. Also, LN has had at least 1 wrestler under the lights in the state championship match 9 of the past 10 years. LN has had 1 state champion in 6 of the past 10 years. That's pretty consistent.

[cbarnett]

Great info, great list, great analysis, and great discussion....  I love this kind of statistical analysis!

[Coach Seltzer]

Elkhart Memorial should rank up there.. 3 champs two state finals appearances.. 2 runner ups.. 18 state medalists. 27 qualifiers.

[maligned]

Elkhart Memorial should rank up there.. 3 champs two state finals appearances.. 2 runner ups.. 18 state medalists. 27 qualifiers.

 

Very, very close to making this list.  You're right.

[maligned]

Nice effort and it does generate interesting conversation, however I need to offer "other" food for thought.  The scoring system being used is flawed when you are talking about the TOP PROGRAMS.  I do not mean to take anthing away from any program but the facts are the facts.... LN dropped out of the Bellmont Super Dual in the decade we are talking about, because their coach admitted that they were not competitve and opted for lesser compition (this does not sound like a top program of the decade, it sounds more like a program that was dominate for a few years or so) and compiled a lot of points in the this scoring system.  Much like the success of Griffith, they had 3 outstanding studs and a couple of good kids in the decade, but that does not make them a top program of the decade.  The discussion of TOP PROGRAMS should be the consistancy of success, not a few teams having outstanding years for 4 years then dropping off the map. This is like trying to use some kind of point system to say which state champ was better at certain weight class, the 2002 vs. the 2008.  Like I said this is good conversation but no way can you put a scoring system in place that will justify any rating sytem...this will always be individual opinions.  Great work.....

 

I also am not an LN apologist, but they had someone stand on the podium 37 times.  That's 3 or 4 placers every year on average.  Only Mater Dei was better.  Just because they've been fringe Top 20 the past couple seasons doesn't mean they didn't have an incredible decade. 

Also, I would argue that any school that earns 11 individual state championships (Griffith) is one of the most noteworthy programs of the decade.  Up until 15 years ago, Indiana used the individual state finals to determine its team state champion.  The NCAA has always used this system.  Don't we consider the college national champion the best "program."  Griffith had the 4th most individual tournament points in the decade.  They have to be on this list.  If we want to evaluate who has the best feeder program or freestyle club or whatever, that's a different discussion.  I just wanted to look at who had great success...and Griffith certainly had great success.

[ENoblewrestling]

Just wondering what teams would have came next.  Im guessing that Columbia City, and Yorktown had to be close. Memorial as well.

[decbell1]

I think every one of us on this board has a different idea of what BEST PROGRAM means.

 

Personally, I would rather see Bellmont have just two guys at state and still finish as Runners-Up at Team State (2006) than win 3 or 4 individual State Titles on one night. I wasn't very old when Bellmont last won state, but I can remember what it meant to everybody in Decatur then, and what it still means now.

 

It is impossible to guage the best program (really, the 2nd best program)

 

These rankings gave no points for State Qualifiers (only placers), which I believe is a very important part of a program

[maligned]

I have to be honest.  I was going for a Top 10.  So I did a quick look at school lists and chose about 35 to do full research on (I tracked numerous schools only partially, realizing they didn't have nearly enough to get in the top 10).  If I'd wanted a Top 25, I would have had to research more like 75 schools to be sure I didn't miss anyone.  Beyond this Top 12, it would be tough to give a much longer reliable list.  I would have to research some more teams to be sure I didn't miss anyone.  I will just say that Elkhart Memorial was #13 and there was a reasonably large drop off in points after that to all the others.  

[PHD27]

 

2. What about the southern teams that had to go through Mater Dei all those years and couldn't prove their worth?    

I would argue that teams like Castle, Memorial, and Reitz have had their chance to prove themselves on an individual level, and simply haven't done it with the quality of the programs listed here.  None of those 3 schools, for example, even topped 85 individual points at the state finals for the entire decade.  Floyd Central, another southern team, managed 226 individual finals points while going through the same semi-state.  If the Evansville teams were really up to the quality of the past couple years all through the decade--as some would argue--we would have seen more success from them at Conseco.

 

I know that Castle and Bloomington South have wrestled head-to-head every year, and am curious about the results.  I know Castle has beaten them the last two years, and  I am thinking that Castle has the slight advantage this decade, but my memory gets fuzzy in the earlier part of this decade.  Does anyone have results between these two teams that could clear this up?

[igrapple2]

I for one know that Reitz has had approximately 26 state qualifiers(not all placers in those 26) but have averaged 20 plus wins for the last 8 or so years.  There were years where they have gone 28-1 in back to back seasons but it was the one loss that kept them from at least getting to the state dual meet series.  I am not saying that they or other teams could have won state but probably could have beaten several teams that make it.  There is alot more parody in the south, especially with Castle beating them last year.  From a team standpoint, the state should look at other states formats.  Kentucky has pooled brackets and they have 1/3 the teams that wrestle and they have a 32 man individual tourney with full wrestle backs.  In terms of teams of the decade, Reitz and Castle may not be at the top but needs to be considered with the programs having that many qualifiers, etc. as consistent teams of the decade.

[indypayrolldude]

You did a lot of work on this.  Tough job to really make out the top team since the yearly variables change.  Good read.