Doug Butabi Posted April 8, 2009 Share Posted April 8, 2009 I'm writing a paper for an english course about the weight regulations within high school wrestling. As many people think it's a great idea, I'm defending the opposite side saying wrestlers shouldn't be limited to where the compete as if they're willing to make the sacrifice in attempts to excel, then more power to them. Any responses and opinions would be GREATLY appreciated. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Y2CJ41 Posted April 8, 2009 Share Posted April 8, 2009 The weight management plan has been great for the sport. As a coach, when a parent or someone else says they don't want their kids to wrestle because of the weight cutting, you can simply point to the weight loss management plan. The plan isn't 100% perfect, but it is closer to perfect than we were without anything. Too many kids and coaches believe that cutting weight is how you become a better wrestler, but in reality its the technique and conditioning that will make you a better wrestler. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SlickRodz Posted April 8, 2009 Share Posted April 8, 2009 A High School wrestler is still pretty much a kid. Many of them not from a physical standpoint, but from an experience standpoint. Old school weight cutting was equated with toughness. "If your tough enough you can cut to ????". Without the experience life gives to those who have put in the years, it is difficult to not only see the risks but weigh them against the benefits. When I was in High School my best friend wrestled each year at 98lbs. His walking around weight was about 130-135. But each season he would cut the weight. It got to the point his senior year his gums would bleed! He was week, starving and in a constant state of dehydration. Result he was a .500 wrestler. The over cutting made him less apt to wrestle. His was not a limited case. It was pretty much the norm. I don't think the current system is flawless. But it encourages healthy habits and weight management. It also lessens the risk! Rod Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JakeandBreighton Posted April 8, 2009 Share Posted April 8, 2009 Actually the plan is usles. You can go any weight you want. The only penelty is if you are below what you are allowed, your head coach is not allowed to participate in the state tourney. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AC Computer Posted April 9, 2009 Share Posted April 9, 2009 The only penelty is if you are below what you are allowed, your head coach is not allowed to participate in the state tourney. Is this right? The only "penalty" I've heard of is that the weigh-in doesn't count as a valid weigh-in, so the wrestler may not have enough weigh-ins to qualify for the tournament series. Maybe you mean the coach would be suspended if he allows a wrestler to participate in the tournament series at a weight below his plan. I could see that because it is the coach's responsibility update the plan and make sure it is followed, but I think the wrestler would also be disqualified from the tournament if it is discovered he is under his allowed weight even after the sectional completes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JakeandBreighton Posted April 9, 2009 Share Posted April 9, 2009 The only penelty is if you are below what you are allowed, your head coach is not allowed to participate in the state tourney. Is this right? The only "penalty" I've heard of is that the weigh-in doesn't count as a valid weigh-in, so the wrestler may not have enough weigh-ins to qualify for the tournament series. Maybe you mean the coach would be suspended if he allows a wrestler to participate in the tournament series at a weight below his plan. I could see that because it is the coach's responsibility update the plan and make sure it is followed, but I think the wrestler would also be disqualified from the tournament if it is discovered he is under his allowed weight even after the sectional completes. I agree, both should be suspended. Unfortunately that isn't what happens. In our sectional there was a kid that couldn't go below 135 (I think or maybe 140) and he went the weight class below. I know because we had a senior who could have don a lot better at a lower weight, but according to the rules he couldn't weigh below 2 pounds over the next lowest weight class. Even though after the first weigh in, by mid season he was walking around 2 pounds over the weight class he wasn't allowed to go, with out cutting. We tried asking Bobby Cox, but it didn't help. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Y2CJ41 Posted April 9, 2009 Share Posted April 9, 2009 You realize that you can get another 2% off your minimum weight if you have parental permission, right? So if a kid's lowest weight was 141.5, with parental permission he could go 138.7 as his lowest weight. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AJ Posted April 9, 2009 Share Posted April 9, 2009 I thought a doctor also had to give the ok? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Y2CJ41 Posted April 9, 2009 Share Posted April 9, 2009 The doctor only has to give the OK if a kid is naturally under 7% body fat. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JakeandBreighton Posted April 9, 2009 Share Posted April 9, 2009 You realize that you can get another 2% off your minimum weight if you have parental permission, right? So if a kid's lowest weight was 141.5, with parental permission he could go 138.7 as his lowest weight. Yes, but according to the rules, it has to be done before the season starts. We tried everything we could think of, but it didn't work out for him, or us for that matter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Y2CJ41 Posted April 9, 2009 Share Posted April 9, 2009 No it has to be done before December 26, 2008. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shootfirst Posted April 9, 2009 Share Posted April 9, 2009 The easiest way around weight management plan is cut the weight BEFORE you certify.We had kids in Tennessee miss a portion of the season just to get to where they wanted to be for state before they would certify. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1oldwrestler Posted April 9, 2009 Share Posted April 9, 2009 The weight management program, IMO, is a farce. I don't think kids, that want to cut the weight, are even remotely swayed by the parameters put forth in the program. Kids get around the program all the time and very easily and coaches who believe all their kids are living up to the letter and spirit of what it's intended to do (stop dramatic cuts in weight) are kidding themselves. Coaches, IMO, trun a blind eye and kind of have a "don't ask, don't tell" mentality. I'm not saying coaches are doing anything outside the bounds of the rules but if (next season) the same standards were applied to the weight management program that WADA (World Anti Doping Agency) applies to Olympic athletes, we'd see alot of studs up two to three weight classes compared to where they were last season. Am I in favor of this type of application of the program? No! Frankly, kids usually don't cut too much weight to where it will actually stunt their growth or cause them health problems in the future. I do believe that the guy earlier who wrote about the kid that cut from 130/135 to 98 did do harm to himself. I can't believe his kidneys didn't shut down doing something like that. I just wanted to put my two cents in on this topic. Boo away! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hammer Posted April 10, 2009 Share Posted April 10, 2009 No booing here. I agree that it was stupid for someone in the past to cut from 130 to 98. No high school kid under 200 should cut that much weight in a season. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jcarter Posted April 10, 2009 Share Posted April 10, 2009 I agree. It's way too easy to get around the rules, especially if your coach doesn't watch you weigh in before you go get the fat test done. I've seen guys who weighed around 195-200 and when they went to certify they said they weighed about 180ish. Then when they got the results back it said from the information that the kid gave he could only cut to 167. So if you look at it really the kid should have only been allowed to go to 189 not 171 like he ended up going. IMO, I like the rules they have in place but they need a way of enforcing the rules, which they don't have now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oscar Posted April 10, 2009 Share Posted April 10, 2009 I'm writing a paper for an english course about the weight regulations within high school wrestling. As many people think it's a great idea, I'm defending the opposite side saying wrestlers shouldn't be limited to where the compete as if they're willing to make the sacrifice in attempts to excel, then more power to them. Any responses and opinions would be GREATLY appreciated. I would suggest you submit your Future "A+" to the Indiana Mat for publication. You have certainly taken a difficult position to defend. Coaches,parents and young wrestlers all have a unique perspective on this issue, but the bottom line is weight regulation was put into place to protect the health of athletes. The goal is to maintain minimum body fat and maximize lean muscle.This is done through physical training and proper diet. In the past, and what you suggest, is to do it through starvation and dehydration.In the past, over zealous athletes and coaches have stepped over the line of sensibility in an "attempt to excell" and athletes have paid the price. This was bad for the sport of wrestling. As some have suggested the regulations are a joke, because they are not clearly enforceable. These regulations are needed and better than nothing at all as, again, you suggest. Good Luck with your Paper!!! I hope I get a chance to read it. One question though. Are you a Wrestler ? Respectfully Oscar Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doug Butabi Posted April 10, 2009 Author Share Posted April 10, 2009 Thank you, and yes, I am a wrestler. I wrestle in college now and know what it's like to cut a fair amount of weight as I have always been a lean kid and I started the wrestling season 18-20 lbs over my weight class my junior and senior year of high school. As many other wrestlers do, I worked my way around the "rules" and worked my way down to lower weight classes than what I was supposed to according to the IHSAA weight regulations. If there were coaches and officials watching my every move as I weighed in and took my hydration test, I would have been stuck in higher weight classes where I don't feel I would have been as successful. Looking back at it, I don't feel like I have done any physical or psychological damage to my health and I have no regrets. This rule is just a bit too strict if you ask me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Y2CJ41 Posted April 10, 2009 Share Posted April 10, 2009 What do you believe wins wrestling matches, conditioning and technique or cutting weight? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oscar Posted April 10, 2009 Share Posted April 10, 2009 Doug I'm not sure I would agree with you. But, present your best arguement in your paper and let us play devils advocate. My first arguement would be based on answering Y2's question. My answer is conditioning and technique. You seem to indicate that weight cutting was a major reason for your success. 20lbs is not a lot if you are in the upper weights but 145 and below I would say you are hurting yourself in the long run. Check medical and psychological research regarding improper weight loss techniques and the long term effects. Kidney damage is one medical problem that was mentioned in an earlier post. This may not show up for years into your aging.Diminished kidney function could be a problem and you might not even know it. More later. Good Luck. Respectfully Oscar Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NickS Posted April 10, 2009 Share Posted April 10, 2009 I'm writing a paper for an english course about the weight regulations within high school wrestling. As many people think it's a great idea, I'm defending the opposite side saying wrestlers shouldn't be limited to where the compete as if they're willing to make the sacrifice in attempts to excel, then more power to them. Any responses and opinions would be GREATLY appreciated. I'd agree with you if every kid knew how to properly cut and manage their weight. But since most kids are ignorant on what's healthy for their bodies, weight regulations is the way to go. I understand the willingness to make sacrifices in order to succeed. But kids have unecessarily died because of these types of sacrifices, therefore there needs to be weight regulations. Sometimes wrestlers need to be protected from themselves. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trinedad Posted April 10, 2009 Share Posted April 10, 2009 I would argue that the weight management rules need to be strengthened. I have seen some kids that cut way to much weight, and suffered as a result. I personally feel that better conditioning and technique, as well as proper strength programs will help you more in the long run. Those that cut weight might have an edge early in the season, but as the season goes on, I think the kids that are not pulling so much weight feel stronger, and can go longer. I think they ought to do a hydration test at every weigh-in to make sure the kid is properly hydrated. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JakeandBreighton Posted April 10, 2009 Share Posted April 10, 2009 Random skin fold tests at weigh ins! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NickS Posted April 10, 2009 Share Posted April 10, 2009 I would argue that the weight management rules need to be strengthened. I have seen some kids that cut way to much weight, and suffered as a result. I personally feel that better conditioning and technique, as well as proper strength programs will help you more in the long run. Those that cut weight might have an edge early in the season, but as the season goes on, I think the kids that are not pulling so much weight feel stronger, and can go longer. I think they ought to do a hydration test at every weigh-in to make sure the kid is properly hydrated. I agree with the hydration tests. Maybe not every weigh-in, but at least 2-3 during the season and at every level of the state series. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doug Butabi Posted April 11, 2009 Author Share Posted April 11, 2009 What do you believe wins wrestling matches, conditioning and technique or cutting weight? Why not all 3? I'm simply stating that some weight classes are just plain harder than others. Not everyone can be a standout in every surrounding weight class. If I had honestly followed the weight regulations, I would have been wrestling much larger kids at 140 lbs., rather than kids at 125 lbs. who are generally weaker and easier to control (and there may not be as much talent). Of course there is a point where you can lose too much weight and you will start to considerably decline in performance, but I'm not saying the more weight you lose, the more successful you will be. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trinedad Posted April 11, 2009 Share Posted April 11, 2009 What do you believe wins wrestling matches, conditioning and technique or cutting weight? Why not all 3? I'm simply stating that some weight classes are just plain harder than others. Not everyone can be a standout in every surrounding weight class. If I had honestly followed the weight regulations, I would have been wrestling much larger kids at 140 lbs., rather than kids at 125 lbs. who are generally weaker and easier to control (and there may not be as much talent). Of course there is a point where you can lose too much weight and you will start to considerably decline in performance, but I'm not saying the more weight you lose, the more successful you will be. I dont think I can see the logic in this statement. I would say atleast this year, and in many years, the 119-125-130 weight classes had many outstanding wrestlers that were not only skilled, but pound for pound as strong as anyone. I dont see the logic that bigger makes you a better wrestler. I can see that having extra weight can make you stronger, but it does not give you any inherent extra set of skills. Please explain how a 145 or 152 pound kid is a more skilled wrestler then a 125-130 pound kid. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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