manvswild1 Posted March 25, 2009 Share Posted March 25, 2009 no they are loosing money compared to what they use too. Attendance is down and thats a fact they are going to see where it goes before they make a descision and my guess will be they will take less money and keep the current system so they won't look like they made the wrong choice. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Y2CJ41 Posted March 25, 2009 Share Posted March 25, 2009 Why have they not gone back to a single class system then? If it has hurt the pocketbook so badly I would think they would have switched it back. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BoilerUp Posted March 25, 2009 Share Posted March 25, 2009 So the fan base is probably less now correct? I bet no one goes to their games since they face lesser competition, right? I bet that state championship trophy they won last year is in some storage closet at Triton too, since they didn't face the best competition to win it. There used to be REAL pro wrestling in the US until they worried about the fans getting bored and added all that junk for entertainment. Just saying, we need to make sure were focused on the athletes, not the fans. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Y2CJ41 Posted March 25, 2009 Share Posted March 25, 2009 I agree BoilerUp! Manvswild's big complaint is that class basketball attendance is down therefore its bad. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fire77 Posted March 25, 2009 Share Posted March 25, 2009 explain to me how televising a sport helps attendance. i did not make the trip penn state to watch the big 10's because they were on tv. i will make the trip the next two years to michigan and purdue. i bet many people in indiana will watch the sport on tv rather than make a 3 hour drive to indy for the championships, unless they personally know someone on the team. just see team state.online. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BoilerUp Posted March 26, 2009 Share Posted March 26, 2009 I agree BoilerUp! Manvswild's big complaint is that class basketball attendance is down therefore its bad. Even if I have a different opinion than you, as long as your heart is in the right place I respect it. The solution is the one that will make better wrestlers and make us better as a state. Now, lets debate what will do that for 30 more pages... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
manvswild1 Posted March 26, 2009 Share Posted March 26, 2009 I completyly agee were doing this for he wrestler. What system would give the wrestler more high profile matches? A. thes system with hale the wrestlers? or B. all the wrestlers? As any geat individual you want to beat the best. Its part of your nature its who you are and for most people its why they wrestle. So even if you discuss the team I believe it is impossible to even bring up the individual aspect of class wrestling because it in no way benifits the wreslers. These are high school young men there is no reason to coddle them. Its alright if everyone is not a winner, it teaches good life lessons if nothing else. If we class the team individual will follow so its a double no if you ask me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Midwest Wrestling Fanpage Posted March 26, 2009 Share Posted March 26, 2009 Which states have class wrestling? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Y2CJ41 Posted March 26, 2009 Share Posted March 26, 2009 Which states have class wrestling? http://www.garrettwrestling.com/statebreakdown.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Midwest Wrestling Fanpage Posted March 26, 2009 Share Posted March 26, 2009 Thanks Y2!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fire77 Posted March 26, 2009 Share Posted March 26, 2009 in responce to the statement " So even if you discuss the team I believe it is impossible to even bring up the individual aspect of class wrestling because it in no way benifits the wreslers. These are high school young men there is no reason to coddle them. Its alright if everyone is not a winner, it teaches good life lessons if nothing else." i think teaching our students to accomplish a goal as part a team is a very important life lesson unless they are the only one important and no one else in the world matters. doing the best you are capable of is important, but we also need to teach them that if they truely do their best and are unsuccessful it is okay. they just need to try to figure out what they can do to be more successful. example my kid goes to college and studies in groups. if they receive a 90 % on a test that is great. what can they do to acheive a 100 % next time? if someone in the group is struggling what can they do help them. it's funny how helping someone else understand something actually helps you understand it more throughly. it helps the individual and the group. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sparky Posted March 26, 2009 Share Posted March 26, 2009 Just curious but when we lived in Texas the private schools with wrestling are not allowed to participate at high school state and I was was wondering if that was taken into account on Y2's state breakdown sheet? In reality there really are 2 classes in Texas with the exclusion of the private schools where the majority of college wrestlers seem to be from. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Y2CJ41 Posted March 26, 2009 Share Posted March 26, 2009 sparky, No they were not. The Texas state association website was very hard to navigate and find information on. Do the private schools have their own state tournament or do they wrestle at prep nationals like Bishop Lynch? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sparky Posted March 26, 2009 Share Posted March 26, 2009 the Texas private schools have their own state, it's TAPS I think..also they go to National Preps and the argument there is that the private schools are eligible to compete anywhere they have the $$'s to get to and the public schools have a limit for travel Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
manvswild1 Posted March 27, 2009 Share Posted March 27, 2009 California, Indiana, and New Jersey are all qualtiy wrestling states and none of them have class wrestling. Big deal that we have the lowest percentage of staters we also have one of the most prestigous titles to win. I would argue that the elusive Indiana state title is a littly trickier to get to so those in contention work that much harder. In life the kids will find out nothing is easy and you have to fight for everything you do. If we give them a way out in sports and make them think they can't compete with everyone then what kind of a lesson are we showing our kids? I haven't given up on my kids at there program and I won't either and you shouldn't either. Trash the class Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1oldwrestler Posted March 27, 2009 Author Share Posted March 27, 2009 The IN (classless)vs IL (classed) bragging rights matches are cool but I don't think they really help figure which state has better wrestlers. I'd love to see the best IL has to offer (all of their AAA champs) versus all of our champs. Even then, you're not going to get every kids best effort because nothing but "bragging rights" hangs in the balance. And maybe a match like this versus IL wouldn't be a fair comparison because there are so many more people in IL so maybe choose WI , MN or IA something more similar to our population, but take that states largest school champs and put them against our champs. It will never happen but this is why this website exists, to talk about some nonsense from time to time. My guess is that we'd come out on the short end of the stick versus MN and IA but do better against WI. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Midwest Wrestling Fanpage Posted March 27, 2009 Share Posted March 27, 2009 I think with the way Indy,Cali and others that have 1 class system at the end of the season we know who is the best regaurdless. If we went to the class wrestling for Ind. there would be disputes who is the best in each weight class it seems to me it would bring unsureity of who is the best H.S wrestlers. I wrestled in Cali love the system been here 16 years love the system I could not stand it if it was like some of these states that have multiple classes your place in the state would seem to not mean quite as much ,thats just my opinion .I placed 5th and 3rd in cali my soph. and junior year it was great all the kids that was there it was very tough. If I would of wrestled for one of the states that had 4 or so classes it just would of not been the same. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
manvswild1 Posted March 27, 2009 Share Posted March 27, 2009 I agree 100%. I do think a classed title would give you a sense of sccomplishment in the individual side, but if you win your class you will be thought of as just one of the great wrestlers in the state that year. People put their work in to gain individual success and they deserve to have it by beating the best. It would be a slap in the face to me if I won a classed state title and others were saying I would be beaten by the higher classed stater. This workes both ways the higher classed guy could have the same thing going on. Truth be told these state champions work harder then anyone in the state and the current system leaves no doubts to who the best is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shootfirst Posted March 27, 2009 Share Posted March 27, 2009 I saw Tenn was listed as having two classes but it is much closer to only 1 class . Div 1 is public schools and private schools that offer no tuition assistance. Div 2 is Private that offer tuition assistance and has only about 12 teams . Div 2 does have some very good wrestlers but is dominated by several teams. How would changing IN to a public vs private be? Would it be similar to TN with 1 large group and one small group dominated by just a few? We do have a Large and small div when it comes to state team duals based on attendance.Doing team and individual differently, class wise, seems to be the best choice. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Y2CJ41 Posted March 27, 2009 Share Posted March 27, 2009 I think with the way Indy,Cali and others that have 1 class system at the end of the season we know who is the best regaurdless. If we went to the class wrestling for Ind. there would be disputes who is the best in each weight class it seems to me it would bring unsureity of who is the best H.S wrestlers. I wrestled in Cali love the system been here 16 years love the system I could not stand it if it was like some of these states that have multiple classes your place in the state would seem to not mean quite as much ,thats just my opinion .I placed 5th and 3rd in cali my soph. and junior year it was great all the kids that was there it was very tough. If I would of wrestled for one of the states that had 4 or so classes it just would of not been the same. Do mass riots occur in other states with class wrestling because they don't know who the "true champion" is? I can at least understand it if you would say class wrestling would not improve the quality of wrestling in Indiana, if attendance would fall, or if it would not help kids get more wrestling scholarships. BUT, if you are saying its because YOU personally wouldn't know who the best was is pretty egotistical and basically telling me you want what is best for you and not what is best for the kids or the sport as a whole. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
manvswild1 Posted March 27, 2009 Share Posted March 27, 2009 Compitition makes good wrestlers great and the place where a lot of kids big schools and small get there compitition is the state tournement. So you hurt the top level kids from both sides classing the state. No true champion is also hurting the kids. Individuals want to know it as much as the public if your have a shot to be the best in the state you as a wrestler want to prove it not me as a fan. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Midwest Wrestling Fanpage Posted March 27, 2009 Share Posted March 27, 2009 WOW harsh words !!don't take it so personal ,Y2 thats what I was saying you just worded it better( not for me personally but for the state as a hole) all what you stated is my concern. Tell you the truth as long as my son has a good wrestling career, and makes it to college D1, D2 or D3, my goals as a parent and coach has been met . I don't care I just want the kids to have a good opportunity in advanceing there education and wrestling Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hammer Posted March 27, 2009 Share Posted March 27, 2009 I have a question for those who want to argue against class wrestling on the basis of "we won't know who the true champion is". Do we know who the true champ was at 130 this past year? Cashe beat Porras in their only head to head match. How about at 135? March lost to Dillon in their only match. At 125, Cashe and Tsirtsis split on the year. Who can say beyond a doubt who would win the rubber match between them? I can provide many examples similar to these through the years. How about Nate Moore bumping up to beat Jake O'Brien? Was O'Brien's state title worth less because he lost to the 189 pound champ during the season? While I am curently in favor of class wrestling, I am open minded to changing my views on it if someone can give me a legitimate reason on why class wrestling would be bad for us. I am yet to see a good reason why a one class system is better than a two class one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Y2CJ41 Posted March 27, 2009 Share Posted March 27, 2009 Indianapolis after state if we went to class wrestling... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jcarter Posted March 27, 2009 Share Posted March 27, 2009 Indianapolis after state if we went to class wrestling... Y2 that manvswild1 in the front and I think he's coming for you!! RUN!!!! haha Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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